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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Here is data on a 168 from Alliant . They show no data for the 165s. 30-06 Springfield * Speer 168 gr BTHP * Reloder 17 * Fed 210 CaseMinimum OAL (inches)Bbl LengthPrimerPowderCharge Weight (grains) Velocity (fps) Winchester 3.295 22 Fed 210 Reloder 17 56 2,850 This velocity of 2850 is not special on its own. Nosler #6 shows over 3000 fps with RL22 in a 24" bbl.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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Savage: Yes, thanks. I have seen the Nosler data...that load of R22 gave under 2800 in a pre 64 FW....bout that time, I figured R19 would be better....it was 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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My old tired Ruger runs 180 Speers or NPTs at 2820 over a 58K PSI pressure tested dose of H4350, and no you won't find that data in a manual... (and I forget which Handloader that was in)
That was in a stock 22"er that has seen Tubbs Final Finish, BTW
I'm Irish...
Of course I know how to patch drywall
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I've never shot a Moose with an A-Max,so couldn't quantify that firsthand accounting.
Extrapolating in kind,do I think a 22" Ti 7-08 with that 162 at 2700fps initial launch,would knock the wiggle out of a Moose? I'd state less reservation,that they'd tug lungs out of one easily,assuming you didn't ask it to break a shoulder enroute or similar.
Yes,I've seen shot Critters other than Bucks,with A-Max. Hardly invented it either.
I've killed over 53 Critters better than 200lbs apiece,with a 22lr...but I'd be slow to endorse same for utility.............
Wow, so this is how you say "You're right, the NPT is a better all'rounder than an AMAX" BTW, I'd not hesitate to bust an Elk (or Moose) right through the shoulders with a 165 Partition leaving my 308 Montana at 2750 inside 200 yards. If you can't get inside 200 yards of an animal, you can't hunt... You might be able to shoot... But you can't hunt
I'm Irish...
Of course I know how to patch drywall
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
Hi Bob, Agreed. I was attempting to state a succinct trueism. Really, if you think about it, a LOT of reloading pressure confusion is answered by that one little truism... If you think about it. I have slow, loose, factory barrels... I have fast, tight, short-throated custom tubes... I know what you mean; you are "right". Still and all, when meditating on pressure and bullet speed, remember that it takes pressure to move a bullet, but bullet movement is not necessary for there to be pressure... I'm tellin' ya, it's all in there. For instance, apply it to the standard noob's question as to whether equal velocity means equal pressure... I'm brilliant, I tell ya... BRILLIANT! .358 Win is the answer.
Uh... what was the question?
You can't make speed without pressure, but you can make pressure without speed. Just sayin'. Careful ,Jeff... (And this is not meant confrontationally).....Light Magnum and High Energy Ammo manage it....and you can increase speed at permissible pressure with the correct combo of good barrel,proper throating,correct barrel dimension,the right bullet,etc.It all has to do with diminishing,within limits,the resistance the bullet encounters in passage down the bore.Yes, it takes pressure for sure to make a bullet go fast... But certain small factors accumulated in the aggragate,can result in two rifles giving significantly different velocities at the same pressures, or close enough that you won't blow yourself up  Tellya what,as an experiment....slug the factory barrel on your Sendero 300 win mag;we can see what it measures for comparison later;do load workup,chronograph, etc.Then let the throat out so that you can seat the 180 even with the base of the neck,in proper relation to the lands(your Remington action is long enough).Do your load workup again,and see where you are. Then...replace the factory barrel with a Krieger stainless,same length,but have them cut it with a 309 groove diameter(yes it will still shoot) ....................have it throated "long";do load work up and we will talk as you go through it.I guaranty you will find out some stuff you didn't know before about the 300 WM....  And before you ask the answer is "yes" I have done all of the above,several times over,in calibers from 270 to 375H&H;years ago.Results are surprising...remember that the entire barrel is the "combustion chamber"....this kinda stuff will convince you that there are such things as "slow" barrels and "fast" barrels.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,830 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,830 Likes: 3 |
Not much sucks worse than an NPT.................... Except payin' $1.20 for a TTSX, when I get NPT's for 32 cents each (Shooters Pro Shop). Practice gets spendy with them TTSXs. BMT
Last edited by BMT; 11/01/09.
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I've killed over 53 Critters better than 200lbs apiece,with a 22lr...but I'd be slow to endorse same for utility.............
Now Larry considering a 200 lb blacktail is about as common as a 300 lb mulie (which is to say damn rare)just what "critters" are you speaking about? And no I don't shoot a 308 WIN. If I want a 200 grain NP to go 2700 I load them in my 300 RUM and shoot through a phone book first.
Last edited by KCBighorn; 11/01/09.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I'll wager those critters went WAY over 200 lbs apiece.
Empirical results rule!
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Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
"The 308 Winchester REALLY IS better!"
Duh...
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'll wager those critters went WAY over 200 lbs apiece. Only if they swallowed a manhole cover.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,998 Likes: 26 |
Cattle and hogs eat manhole covers?
Last edited by SamOlson; 11/01/09. Reason: hogs
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Cattle....probably not. Hogs perhaps. Thought we were talking blacktails????? I missed that one
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 43,998 Likes: 26 |
I just assumed Larry had whacked some butcher critters between the eyes with a 22lr.
Assuming Carl thought the same thing.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 18,453 |
I see now....it was KC that made the leap. I haven't seen any evidence of PWC spewing BS so I'm sure he'll clarify.
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Posts: 21,830 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,830 Likes: 3 |
I see now....it was KC that made the leap. I haven't seen any evidence of PWC spewing BS so I'm sure he'll clarify. .
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I just assumed Larry had whacked some butcher critters between the eyes with a 22lr.
Assuming Carl thought the same thing. Right. Im sure he ran a huge cattle ranch, and probably hogs too on the side. Would that be when he was in Coos Bay or AK. You guys crack me up...
Last edited by KCBighorn; 11/01/09.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I've never shot a Moose with an A-Max,so couldn't quantify that firsthand accounting.
Extrapolating in kind,do I think a 22" Ti 7-08 with that 162 at 2700fps initial launch,would knock the wiggle out of a Moose? I'd state less reservation,that they'd tug lungs out of one easily,assuming you didn't ask it to break a shoulder enroute or similar.
Yes,I've seen shot Critters other than Bucks,with A-Max. Hardly invented it either.
I've killed over 53 Critters better than 200lbs apiece,with a 22lr...but I'd be slow to endorse same for utility.............
No barnyard reference here in the full post... Talking about hunting from what I can gather, but I'm sure you Gents can read between the lines better than I. The 53# came from Dan's account of having HUNTED and killed that many big game animals BTW.
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,998 Likes: 26 |
I just assumed Larry had whacked some butcher critters between the eyes with a 22lr.
Assuming Carl thought the same thing. Right. Im sure he ran a huge cattle ranch, and probably hogs too on the side. Would that be when he was in Coos Bay or AK. You guys crack me up... [bleep] if I know, maybe he worked for a butcher in high school. Really not a big deal.
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Campfire Regular
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Damn it Sam... I can't [bleep] argue with that!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,998 Likes: 26 |
But you can bet Larry will explain it 'eloquently'......(grin)
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