Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 270 Win vs 7mm Rem Mag

I know, not too original of a topic. I'm interested in buying a rifle that will be used in open country. Mostly very windy country as well. I hunt mostly for mule deer but would like to try my hand in a couple of years on caribou up north and antelope in Wyoming. I know that the 270 Winchester with 130gr bullets will probably do any of those tasks.

I'm just wondering if the 7mm Rem Mag with 140gr or 150gr bullets might be just a bit better? It seems like the 7mm bullets would fly just as flat or flatter than the 270 with 130's and drift less in the wind (bullet for bullet or BC for BC, no ballistic chart shinanigans). It also seems like there would be just a bit more whack on target with the slightly larger caliber with more bullet weight.

I want this to be the kind of rifle that can do-it-all if need be from antelope to elk. I use a 30-06 mostly for elk where my shots rarely reach 200 yards. My rifle seems to like longer bullets and I can only get decent groups with 180gr bullets. It seems like I'm holding pretty high at 400 yards to hit targets (about 25 inches) and wouldn't feel comfortable aiming that far over the back of a deer with it. Therefore, I've come up with a "need" for a new rifle .

I like both the 270 and 7mm Rem Mag and really like their availability when it comes to factory stuff if I need it. I want to pick the best option for shooting flat and possibly being a good backup for elk if worst comes to worst.

It depends. Do you also plan on hunting sheep? Want a light rifle or a heavier one? 22" barrel, 24" or 26"?

If you want light, packable and versatile, the 270 Winchester wins.

Either one. There really is no big advantage to the 7RM unless you are going with heavier bullets. For your stated purposes, the .270 would work fine for me.

If I wanted to go bigger, I'd go .300, but that's just me.

Split it and get a 280.

My advice is keep the .30-06 and get closer.

25 inch target is way too big.
Need to be hitting 10 inches every shot or you are too far away.

Most 7mm Rem Mags come in a lot bigger rifles that .270 Win, in case you don't like the extra 2 lbs of weight.

Compare a 140-gr .270, 160-gr 7mm, and 165-gr .30-06.
Not just trajectory, but energy at the target.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/

Rifle weight isn't too much of an issue. I'm guessing that field-ready weight could be between 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 pounds. I'm more concerned with getting the best performance from the cartridge that I choose. This rifle would most likely be shot mostly from the prone over a rest or bi-pod at ranges between 200 and 400 yards. Where I hunt deer, shots at ranges less than 200 yards are fairly rare. Most shots range from 300 to 350 yards. I practice out to 400 yards.

With the 270, I'd likely choose a 130gr monolithic or 140gr bonded. With the 7mm, I'd most likely choose 140gr monolithic or 150/160gr bonded.

I think I'm asking a lot of this rifle. I don't want a true long-range rig because they just aren't handy enough to be as versatile as I need it to be. I guess that is why I'm looking at going with the 7mm Rem Mag to provide a little more confidence when my potentially personal best mulie isn't totally broadside at the 350 yard line and I've got a decent amount of wind blowing accross my nose.

This brings up another question. The canyons that I hunt deer in have wind that swirls. The wind might be blowing from left to right on my side but are blowing the opposite direction on the far side where the deer are. How do you shoot through that?

I'll keep the 30-06 for the simple fact that its great in the timber and shoots pretty well as long as I'm using 180gr bullets. It seems to like 57.5gr of H4350 and either a 180gr Partition or Interlock. This load using the partition has dumped some nice roosevelt elk. It does okay with the same charge and a 165gr A-Frame. At the 400 yard line, I shoot at a 60 inch piece of butcher paper with a 12 inch shoot'n'see target stuck in the middle. If I aim dead-on at the shoot'n'see, I'm only a few inches from being off the paper on the low side if I'm shooting from the prone. If I near the top of the paper, I can drop the bullets into the 12 inch shoot'n'see with groups that are a bit bigger than my palm but smaller than my stretched out hand, so I'm guessing the groups are around 6 to 8 inches or so. I just can't seem to find a handload or factory load that does this well with lighter bullets that shoot flatter. Well, besides Federal Gold Medal Match with 168gr BTHP, but I'm not sure how those would do on game. That factory load shoots awesome out of that rifle!

For a deer/antelope rifle I'd like something that cuts the wind and drops a few inches less. I'll probably go with a 250 yard zero and see if I can't hold on hair at 400 yards. That is my ultimate goal without the mid-point trajectory being super high.

As far as weight, my 30-06 is a Winchester M70 and it weighs 9 1/4 pounds field-ready. I haven't started cussing at it yet.

Sounds to me like you're about ready to graduate to a scope with dotz in it...

Also, what r you running for a range finder these days?

Thx
Dober

Dan,
270, 06, 7Mag,all will work and fit your needs well. Heck the 06 with the 180's you are shooting bucks the wind almost as good as anything out there and if you are shooting it as well as you mentioned in your post then why mess with another rifle.
If you want a factory chambering IMO any of the three you have chosen as options will work well for any of the animals you mentioned you are hunting. Any one of them with a Barnes TSX or TTSX would be extra special too. You mentioned your rifle likes long bullets. The solid copper bullets are a little longer than there lead core cousins and a 165 TSX in your 06 might surprise you.

Dave

I use a Nikon Monarch 800. They should really call it a Nikon Monarch 563 because that's as far as I can actually get a return on anything other than aluminium street signs. Its plenty good enough because I know what 600 yard deer look like. Way too far away for me to shoot. I wouldn't push a shot past 400 because I don't have the facilities to practice any further than that.

I have 3 scopes that aren't on a rifle that I'd consider for this rifle. I have a Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 with LR Duplex, Leupold VX-III with 4.5-14x40 AO with standard Duplex. I also have a Swarovski 3-9x36 with a standard plex.

I've been playing with the 30-06 and the 3-9x VX-II with the LR Duplex. It seems pretty simplistic. Zeroed at 200, the bullets strike a bit low of the first dot at 300 and between the second dot and where the stadia thickens at 400. I'm guess the LR duplex was probably meant for the flatter shooting calibers. Unless I move my zero closer, I don't see how the dots will do me a lick of good on the 30-06. They seem to be kinda nifty on an M700 in 243 using 70gr Ballistic Tips though.

RaceTire: I noticed that when comparing 150gr TSX with 180gr Nosler Partitions that the 150gr TSX was just about as long. Maybe you have something there. The local store got in some 30 caliber TTSX bullets that I thought looked pretty mean. I looked at some Barnes reloading data with the 130gr TTSX and the velocities look unreal.

My biggest concern is that a bullet that is light for its length seems like it wouldn't retain energy as well and worse yet, would blow around more in the wind. Like hitting a tennis ball vs a baseball. You can hit a tennis ball over 120 mph and it won't go nearly as far as a baseball at 100 mph.

I think I should quit reading gun magazines. I used to just hunt and not think about this stuff.

Federal Gold Medal Match is tougher than most people believe.
Besides, at 400 yards, it is not moving that fast.

If you are hand loading, why not try the 165-gr Scirrocco? It is a long bullet, high BC, thick jacket, retains weight. Same for TSX mentioned above.

Try the Burris Ballistic Plex scope. Get the hash marks figured out for your load, and with a rangefinder, no more guessing.

But a 165-gr from a .30-06, set 2.25 inches high at 100 yards, not very low at 300.

That Remington site lets you compare several loads at once, even mixing calibers.

You can always split the difference and get a 270 WSM...

Dan,
Now you are talking. As Dober so eloquently says. Load em up a "go fill an ark." If you shoot 150 or 165 Barnes TSX or TTSX in your 06 and get them shooting (start them at .050" back like Barnes recommends) you will be a real happy guy. Unless you are shooting over 300 yards and shooting in a pretty stiff wind I wouldn't be too concerned about wind drift. If you are holding shoulder or slightly behind deer facing left in a left to right 10MPH -15MPH wind @ 300 or less you won't even know and niether will the deer that the wind was blowing.

Dave

I have a couple 270's and a 7 Rem Mag. If I could only have one, it'd be the 7 mag, just because one can load heavier bullets for it. I use 140 gr for deer, 160 or 175 gr for elk. Mine has a 26" barrel on it, which I don't find to be a hindrance, and it has always shot really well.

IMO a 7 mag with 160gr bullets is a noticable power upgrade over the 270 Winchester when it comes to shooting Elk. A couple hundred fps faster with 140gr bullets is also.

The disadvantages of the 7 Rem mag is that you're going to burn a good bit more powder to get the extra performance. A 270 is an easier to shoot gun.

The 270 Winchester is a great round but I'm starting to prefer the 270 WSM over it because of the 270 WSM 150-200fps advantage with the same bullets and some of the lovely lightweight guns that are out there for the 270 WSM.

So since you have your 30-06 for Elk hunting of the two I'd go with the 270 Win since it's an easier shooting gun but I'd choose the 270 WSM over either of them. With the 270 WSM you can get the extra performance and a nice lightweight rifle...........................DJ

I thought about the 270 WSM and even bought a new Winchester M70 Extreme Weather in 300 WSM that I kept for two whole weeks. It sounds kinda strange or vain but I think the WSM cartridges kinda look goofy. They also don't seem to feed as smoothly as the longer, more gently tapered cartridges. The action on my M70in 30-06 is very slick and I love how smoothly it feeds. I'm pretty old fashioned in this sense. I've always had a crush on the 270 Winchester and a good respect for the 7mm Rem Mag.

[quote=Dan360]

I don't see how the dots will do me a lick of good on the 30-06./quote]



Hmm......

Dober

I agree with you, Dan. Too much reading of magazines can be hazardous to your judgment and mental health, especially when they are selling something.

You're on the right track caliber-wise and bullet-wise (don't forget NPts), but you might think about dots in the scope or twistin' to extend the range a bit, if that concerns you,

This is the direction I will go in first. It looks a heck of a lot cheaper than buying a whole new rifle. The winds in the area that I hunt are at their calmest at 10mph. If its a warm fall with a large temp variation, I can see winds that reach a steady 15 to 25mph. As the sun comes up, the wind picks up blowing up the canyon. As the sun goes down and it cools, the wind moves down the canyon. There have been times with a stiff crosswind that I've even declined shots at 300 yards. I couldn't get steady with the beating wind and sand. Thinking about it, I'm not so sure any other cartridge would be enough of an improvement over my 06 that I'd attempt those shots. I do intend to try to get better at doping wind though. I'm doing as much as I can to make myself a better shot because I'm enjoying shooting much more as I learn more about it.