Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Wiggy's sleeping bags?

I bought two bags sets in '99 from Wiggy, I finally got in cold enough conditions this month to zip the Ultima Thule fully.

I don't have problems with Jerry. I am polite to all, and usually get that back. I called Jerry yesterday on an issue and he asked me to return the product.

jim

Me neither....

I blame my Mother...she's lefty also...

I find duct tape so handy I started re-wrapping some (camo duct tape of course) just below each handle on my trekking poles. Its always there if I need it!

MtnHtr

MH, That's a heck of a tip there, as long as you have your trekking pole you have the means of stablizing a lower extremity. Not having my trekking pole with me, and it was in the truck, was only one of a few bad decisions I made that day. What I learned is a lower extremity injury is immoblizing, most anything else you at least have the possibility of walking out on your own. Bad mojo.

Kent

Sorry if describing my experience is bashing. The first Superlight I ordered was a long/wide based on the recommendation of the manufacturer. I am 6' and 200 lbs. It was way too big for me and weighed 6 lbs. on my digital scale. I replaced it with a regular/wide which was a much better fit. That one went just over five pounds. Advertised weights are 4 _ lbs. for the reg/wide whatever that means and 5 lbs. for the long/wide. I have a short Superlight for my kids that weighs 3.8 lbs. but it is a pretty small sleeping bag. If you find that a good weight for a backpacking sleeping bag rated at 0 degrees, good for you. I don't. I also find one pound swings from advertised to actual weights in backpacking gear to be problematic. As this is the backpack hunting forum, I thought that's along the lines of what we were talking about.

I tried the BA system, synthetic, down and a combination of the two, and although I like the concept and the roominess, I had the same problem as others as to losing warmth through the bottom in cold weather. Hope that wasn't bashing.

For clarification:

The remark about a middle-aged overweight sheep hunter was not faulting the hunter for being overweight or middle-aged, which I share both of those traits; instead it was the request. You no longer FIT in a 2.5 lb bag when you reach a certain bulk, regardless of age.

People expect miracles from sleeping bags when they have limited experience. I am no miracle worker.

I REFUSE to sell a regular-width bag to a man. PERIOD. Men have wide shoulders and WILL NOT FIT in a 31"-wide bag. He'll get cold because he is compressing insulation and then wind up here telling all how Wiggy bags don't work.

I have missed many a sale by not budging from that. Guy is focusing too heavily on the bag weighing less on his back that he doesn't even care if it fits when he sleeps in it! We quibble over a pound and chances are he's carrying a bunch of extra pounds anyway! It's ridiculous.

Outlandish claiims? I don't get it. Go dump a half-gallon of water in a Montbel bag at or near zero degrees and come back and tell us about your 8+ hours in the bag. And don't give me - "but I take special care not to get my bag wet..." Good for you. I sell bags in Alaska. I try to fail the bag within its claimed capabilities. I haven't been successful at that yet. Even with a soaked bag. I sell you a bag that may get wet and still keep you warm.


What is a "higher tech bag"? A quilted bag is not higher tech. It's quilted because the insulation will bunch or shift without quilting. ALL nylon fabrics are DWR treated and initially repel water to some degree. You waterproof a bag and you create a sauna. Not good. So water-proof is not higher tech.

Down holds moisture. You stay below freezing in a down bag and it will get heavier by the day. Moist when you are in it and frozen when you are not. Not much high tech about that.

DONT attempt to roll up a Wiggy bag to put it in a stuff sack. Just choose an end and start stuffing until it is all in.

Alaska_Lanche -- You are not LUCKY. You simply have not attempted to go beyond the bag's limitations, that we discussed, and you know how to sleep in the cold.

These threads should be about the bags and their limitations, NOT about Taylor and Jerry. But when I see my name being dragged around unjustly, yes, you get to deal with me on a personal level.

I've had more than one polar bear hunter call me for another bag after he had to leave his Wiggy bag with his native guide in Canada, so... Maybe they are looking to get out of them caribou hides!

5 degrees this morning at my house. Gonna be a COLD winter, and a BUSY one here at Wiggy's-Alaska!

Taylor

FVA, was reading through this thread again and your comment about not using a pad really surprised me. No criticism here. I'm all for each of us doing what he wants, but how do you stay warm? I decided many moons ago based on hard cold experience over many nights that if I had to choose either sleeping bag or good pad for a night outside in the bush, I'd take the pad. I've bivied that way, pad only, in several inches of November snow above 7000 feet elevation in the Rockies. Of course that is dry cold and easy to build a fire.

How do you keep the part of your body warm that is in contact with frozen ground or ice beneath you? Can you rake up enough duff, leaves or evergreen needles etc. to insulate you from the ground? Either you are a tough hombre or you have some tricks I'd like to learn. I've put a pack under me and slept on it.

I continue to be amazed at the experience and quality proven info on this forum.

There was enough duff that I didn't have to rake it up and to tell you the truth I am a tough hombre(wink) Being a dairy farmer and the 7 day weeks and working outside every day even if sick will do that to you.
Certainly frozen ground/ice would warrant more consideration but I did the same under the stars at close to 10,000 ft. in Wyoming in similar temps. Same Wiggy bag.

Interesting on the comments about the wiggy bag ratings and wearing extra clothes. I find I'm much warmer in any bag if I'm sans clothes or sans most of the clothes.

I never believed a buddy about that but got cold in an older ECWS bag a few times until I tried it, that being only probably mid 20s at nights.

Then used the same bag in AK and followed the sans clothing rule and we had as low as 5 in the tent in the mornings and was snug as a bug.

So I do think that besides personal metabolism, how you use your bag has a LOT to do with it.

Of course if trying to sell the product and you come across as a gal on the rag, that doesn't help any....

Marc, you're cracking me up, when you claim to be the world's greatest anything, that's outlandish and taints whatever else you may say.

"What is a "higher tech bag"? A quilted bag is not higher tech. It's quilted because the insulation will bunch or shift without quilting. ALL nylon fabrics are DWR treated and initially repel water to some degree. You waterproof a bag and you create a sauna. Not good. So water-proof is not higher tech."

That doesn't describe any bag I had on the list. That's like putting an elaphant, lion and monkey together and calling everything in the jungle that.

Now, I'm having a little fun with you cuz you set yourself up.

Anyway, have you actually put water in a Montbell syn bag and compared? That would definately be useful info along with Alaska Launche's report. Have you compared it with any other's?

I'm looking at bag's, I understand nylon and insulation from doing MYOG projects, a 0 deg bag isn't one I want to try. Tell me real world knowledge between the wiggys and others. If it's close I may buy one because it's made in the US.

Alaska's opinion speaks alot, I absolutely understand,'It works for what I do, might be something better but no use to change'. I'm that way with alot of my stuff.

Questions you can answer.

Can you weigh an individual bag and if so what's the weight of a 0 deg, reg size bag?
What other synthetic bags have been tested with the wiggys, for whatever test?

Kent

I haven't been able to go out this fall and was just testing the cloths thing last spring when it was still chilly. Being a small guy in a big bag, instead of putting the cloths on, I rat nested them inside around me. Seemed to work well but not enough times to know for sure.

Kent

Marc, I DID call you when I was looking for a bag. I gave you the parameters of my hunt and you told me which bag to get (the mountain hunter), and that's the one I bought. I'm not an expert like alot of the gear junkies on this site.

About wearing too much. Only one night out of 10 did the water bottles have ice in them. Weather stayed above freezing. I bought the 23 degree bag. First night I only wore fleece pants and top. Shivered all night. Second night added a fleece hat. No help. Third night I added a shirt and pair of pants. Cold all night. Finally ended up with a fleece jacket on top of everything. I tried it all ways.

I had my inflatable mattress [inside] my bag--not on the ground getting cold.

Had a nice warm meal every night before hitting the hay.

Condensation on the outside--I was glad to see it, proved your wicking claims and can see the benefits.

Drooling idiots? I don't recall anyone calling you any names. Unreal...

Recall me saying I felt it is a well built bag? I stated I think the 25 degree rating on the mtn. hunter is a bit optomistic. I stand by my statement. Oh, by the way, I normally sleep hot, home, hotels, camping, etc.

Marc, I wasn't "bashing" your product. I bought a lot of expensive top-of-the-line equiptment for my sheep hunt.Everything performed flawlessly, and made my trip a pleasure. Except my bag. I stand by my original post.

If you would like to replace my bag with one that will REALLY keep me warm in the conditions I described to you in our phone conversation, I will be happy to send this one to you for replacement.

Al

I'll give you this, too much clothes as I've noted is BAD in a bag. Only if I'm freezing my butt off in a bad bag would I try to get more clothes on and at that point it would be everything I had and drape the bag over like a quilt.....

The air mattress thing is BS. I have wiggys pads. They are by far the COLDEST thing I've slept on ever. Sans bare ground. The air mattress keeps a layer in between, with the wiggys I compress it to the ground, no way around that and it has ZERO insulation ability compressed.

Al, can't say what to say as I've been cold in a 40 degree wiggy bag at around 25, but put my wool pants and jacket on and that was fine enough to sleep soundly then. I don't have a 23 degree bag but I'd think it have to be warmer.

I also again think there are things like body metabolism and bag size...I mean its almost like a bag needs to fit you just right, too big and its a waste and too small and it compresses and a waste. Don't know what to say beyond that.

Other than Wiggys ain't no backpacking bag unless you have a big pack and can carry some extra weight.

I'm going Kifaru next time and see, IF its like many others say that may be the ultimate synthetic bag and light enough to backpack.

For all you fellas freezing your arses off at night: Do you pack and wear some type of head beanie to bed? And do you wear a thick pair of Smartwool socks?

I've never been cold and I've camped/slept down to 17degF below zero. I also wear a down vest over two baselayers in my bag if necessary.

Layering traps heat in those pockets of air.

MtnHtr

I like wearing a wool beanie and socks, for sure.
Especially at subzero temps.

Marc sorry if I read you wrong on your comment about middle aged overweight sheep hunters. I may be thin skinned on the subject as I have become one!

I'll go home and pour water in my bag and toss it out in the yard, if the wife survives it, I'll try it later, maybe.

I wear synthetic trunks, same for socks, not wool etc... but a polypro wicking sock. Wools are in the foot bed just in case though and to dry out, inside out....

I always have some type of head gear on. As we are much more used to ( I never said enjoy...) 110 degrees, than anything under freezing, its often a full face balaclava type deal.

Always wanted to order one of those sleeping bag head/hood setups I've seen but never have...

Okay, YukonAl, you got me.

I'll call Wiggy on Monday and ask him how many Mountain Hunters he's made for me. He'll say something like 250 or so. I'll divide 1 by 250 and come up with a number --- .004. That will be the percentage of customers who have said that they slept 10 nights above or near freezing in a Mountain Hunter 25-degree bag and didn't get one night of good sleep.

Can't ask for much better than that. .004% Failure rate.

Then I'll ask how many people can fit their sleeping pad inside their sleeping bag and have it fit better than it did before, when the sleeping pad was on the outside. I'm sure there'll be ONE there too who says he is better off with his INFLATABLE mattress stuffed into his bag. With compressed insulation all around him.

I have never gotten a full night sleep on an inflatable pad either, but we'll put that as "beside the point". I either use closed-cell-foam, or a Wiggy pad or both in the winter.

I want you to wash, dry and box that Mountain Hunter up and send it back with a copy of your receipt if you have one and I'm going to send you a check for your full purchase price. I'll then sell it used within a matter of days, at a discount, to someone who will know what to do with it.

I can't count the number of good nights sleep I've gotten in one of those bags. At AND below freezing.

And you know that bag I dumped water in last winter? It was a Mountain Hunter. Go back and read the thread again.

Not discounting your experience, just not ever going to try to sleep on an air mattress inside or outside a sleeping bag unless maybe it is above 60 degrees and I failed to bring my pad and my buddy has two. Then I'll put it on the outside of the bag... Where it belongs...

I'll be expecting that bag by the end of next week.

Taylor

379 Peterbilt - Sorry for including you in that list, but for future reference ALWAYS bet Over on a Wiggy's thread! :-))

Okay, fellas, I'm out until Tuesday. See ya then!

Taylor

The line has moved to 6...(grin)