Anybody using Wiggy's sleeping bags? I'm thinking about buying one and would like to hear about your experiences.

Thanks,

BeanMan

I sold them, never wanted to use one. Heavy. Don't compress well. Temp ratings overly optimistic. I wouldn't give Jerry Wigutow a dime of my money as he's an abrasive sort of a higher order..

Apart from that they're perfectly fine for car camping or the military.

+1 to Brad's comments.

Over/under 5 pages

I'm voting over 5, but count me with Brad on this, and I still have mine. For what it's worth, I'm impressed with the Kifaru Slick bag, and the ID bag (should have gotten the broad). I'd choose between those two if I were getting a synthetic bag.
Don

I have a couple I have used them on quite a few late fall/early winter back country hunts. I believe they are 6 years old now
They are durable and well built. Seem to compress pretty good if you are the type who opens his own lids.
I just got back from a Adirondack hunt with nights in the very low teens/highs under 40 and did not have issue. I have two bags and believe they are rated 20 and 0 degrees. Likely the ratings are optimistic as I sleep in quite a bit of my clothes and use no pad but getting through the nights is not a issue.
The owner is a butt hole though and likely I'll look for something different when I feel like getting something new.

got one this past summer for my sheep hunt... had relatively mild temps... worked OK but would have to agree with the temp ratings, had 0 deg bag and in the mid twenties got a chill a few times/ and it does not compress well.

Not to get off topic (if this thread wasn't already going to be silly long I'd feel worse), but nights in the teens on what I assume is snow or frozen ground without a pad? May I ask why?
Wiggy's specs. are very unimpressive, but I've never slept in one, so I guess I can't say much else.

Boy, I'd say most are overly optimistic....

Well Brad, I'm glad you said it. I've been biting my tongue on this one.

I really put alot of gear through its paces this year on my Alaska sheep hunt. My Wiggy's bag was the only piece of gear that didn't perform as needed or expected. I have a 25 degree bag, and froze my azz off every night. That's on top of being fully dressed with a jacket and hat on.

It breathes well (maybe too well), and seems to be well built.

I'll admit, the only bags I've used in the last 18 years have been a series Western Mountaineering bags. We have two at the house right now. I've found the temp rating of WM bags to be dead on, and perhaps a bit conservative, but everyone's metabolism is different, so temp ratings are just highly scientific guesswork

But likely you're right, many, perhaps most, temp ratings are optimistic.

Wow, this could be an interesting read. Was under the assumption that most liked these bags.

I'll help it get to 5. I think that's a pretty good call. Weights haven't been accurate as compared to advertised for the several I purchased either. Five and a half pound 0 degree bags (rating and a regular length/wide) just don't seem like the best choice for backpacking given the multitude of alternatives. And compared to any other bag I've owned, they are definitely hard to compress, even using a compression sack. Based on having a WM and a couple of different Wiggy's to compare to, I think you'd have to carry at least twice the bulk and weight in Wiggy's to equal the WM in temperature, probably more in bulk.

Hunt AK, this is one of those Ford/Yugo arguments that rage all over the outdoor forums on the web. When most of us see them, we know better than to get involved as they digress into name calling, etc. It's such a guilty pleasure though.....

I was warm enough in mine, it's just you need so much bigger a backpack to carry one. It overwhelmed my bag on my first goat hunt and I had to carry it outside the bag in a drybag. I've learned alot since (hasn't been cheap, mind you).

You'll notice the early shot above " for those that open their own lids"; I'll not fire back or check back on this one.

Soooo, which one's the Yugo? Was under impression that the phrase was Ford/Chevy

Nights were spent in a two man tent on forest litter which compresses pretty flat. You feel lumps but it is not quite frozen ground. Snow gets thrown aside at set up.
My son and I brush bucked pretty deep into trail-less wilderness and the packs were big enough without adding pads.
Been doing it this way quite a few years and it isn't really an issue to me. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

I have two that were purchased about 15 years ago. They are very well built, but I also agree that the temp ratings are off and they don't compress well for backpacking. Mine have been replaced with a WM and a Marmot when packing. The Wiggy's are now used for car camping, base camp and kid's sleep overs.

Thems make for some spendy kids sleepover rigs

So does this basically boil down to a Wiggys/WM debate?

Price differences between the two?

I understand one big draw of the Wiggys bags is being able to keep you warm even when wet. Owner of Wiggys Alaska has taken his bag, poured a kettle of water on it when winter camping and slept in it overnight. Saw the pics, but haven't tried (or had to do this, thankfully) this personally.

Kinda had it set in my mind to pick up a set of these (one for the wife and I), but maybe I'll check out WM also...

Hunt Ak,

I think the price difference between a similarly rated WM and Wiggy's will be almost double. The WMs are not cheap.

Also, all of WM's bags are down so if you're looking for a synthetic, they aren't going to be an option. I don't own any synthetic bags other than the two Wiggy's so can't offer much advice on other options. However, I think there are better options out there, especially if you are going to be backpacking.

That was the point I was trying to make:
It breathes well (maybe too well), and seems to be well built.

In the morning the whole outside-top of the bag had condensation on it(wet). I guess from breathing. But I gotta wonder if this doesn't aid in heat loss.

Just my less than proffessional experience, ie. 2 cents worth.

You guys sure know how to make tough on a n00b!! I have been reading some older posts about bags, and Jerry had posted in many. Opinionated is, well, an understatement?
I was looking at buying a good bag. I sleep mostly on my side/belly, and need lots of room. Get cold easy as well.

Think I'll look closer at a WM Badger!

Thanks, later...

I think a lot of bag temp rating optimism stems from the bagmaker's attempts to make the lightest possible bag. They cut the bags for tall skinny body types. We widebodies stretch the bag and compress the insulation, resulting in cold arms and elbows.

The wiggy bags come in many length and girth combinations. A long/wide 20-degree bag weighs just under four pounds, if I remember right (the "glacier hunter", available in AK). I laid in one, and it is indeed roomy to the point that none of my appendages compressed any insulation.

The ergonomics of the head/shoulder area are absolutely lousy, though. I didn't see a draft collar in the 20 or 0 bags I looked over, and that's a big problem. The wiggy guys will tell you that "your head is a radiator and why would you want to isolate it from warming the rest of your body", and that logic is too wrong to even know where to start refuting it.

Their bags are designed to move moisture. Porous outer material and synthetic insulation. Finding moisture condensed on the outside of your bag in the morning is a good thing - that means that your sweat and clothing dampness moisture made it outside, rather than condensing out in your insulation. Down bags are subject to a bit of "loading up" with moisture as it condenses in the insulating layer, but it's not the big deal that the wiggy guys make it out to be, unless you are moving all day in the rain with the bag packed, and you go to bed wet every night.

Agree.
Though I haven't used one, I have seen plenty of Wiggy's attitude as well as Taylor's attitude on this forum.
I wouldn't ever do business with them, I don't care how good the bags were.

Beanman:
Spend your money on an Integral Designs & be done with it. They're in Calgary & make very good stuff. Spend your money once. The only Wiggy's items I have are the light weight slip over boots for wading creeks & streams. Those, BTW work great IMHO. Just get ID gear & don't look back. I have one of their mummy bags rated to +15 (I think it's +15) and it works very well on the north side of the Brooks as well as here in the Interior for our Sep. moose season. I also just got their light weight jacket w/ optional hood. Expensive but quality is very good. I can't believe how warm it is for it's weight. I'm wearing it every day now as it's getting to about -5 deg. or so. I'll be getting the matching insulated pants next spring and will be using these two items on our Aug. 2010 sheep hunt into the Brooks. Gonna use 'em so I can siwash it on mountain tops & not hike up & down the mountains daily.
Integral Designs gear just plain works.
Bear in Fairbanks

Piece of....junk. Bought one for a sheep hunt after reading about it on Kifaru. siteWorthless! Filling clumped up , cold as heck, o.k.for summer use in a cabin. Step away from Wiggy's hype, don't waste your money,wish I hadn't wasted mine!

Thanks for the opinions guys. I have an older Marmot down bag that I will be replacing in a year or so and I plan to go with WM bag for that. I do want to get a synthetic bag for certain trips where it might get wet. I will Check out the ID bags.

Thanks again,

BeanMan

ID does make great gear, pricey but great

if you want affordable alternatives, I've had really good luck with TNF Cat's Meow, Kelty bags (but it's old) and most recently Montbell Super Stretch, most comfortable synthetic bag I've ever slept in. don't believe I've given even $150 for any of them

I do have a Wiggy's bag, but it's relegated to the boat as it was heavier than my TNF bags and not as warm ime.

have a little sleep bag experience, spent 10 years or so averaging 50-60 nights in one.

Lots of folks in Alaska love their Wiggy's bags, though not everybody in Alaska is backack hunting for sheep. On my sheep hunt this year my partner had a Wiggy's; I had a TNF Cat's Meow. Despite lots of internet hype, we both lived to tell about it.

The Cat's Meow is definitely cut for skinny types but it kept me warm. (I'm 6-1, 190 and I use the regular-size bag as this is my "lightweight" bag). This is my second Cat's Meow, I got my first at age 12 and while it's only good to about 50deg now, the construction is still solid.

The Wiggy's appears without a doubt to be a good bag at a fair price. Well-made, heavy-duty zipper, not an ultralight. Plus, each night just through your wet rusty rifle in the bag, it will be clean by morning!

ANY and EVERY synthetic bag will do that. It's the fact of not absorbing water like down does - not because of brand.

I saw that and was reminded of SHAM-WOW!. I can't remember the specifics, but recall there being a fair amount of other cold-weather gear was worn. Also, most/all bags have some sort of DWR coating so as to not be water sponges.


Wiggy bags generate a lot of emotion for sure. Guys either really like them or really don't like them. When there is such a split on opinion, I'll spend my money on a surer thing.

Beanman, I bought several of his bags just before the "Wiggy's S-storm." I bought two of the 20* Kifaru specials (I think he now calls them the ultralight. They got delegated to kids sleepover bags after first trip. I bought two of the hunter dual bags also. Those have worked great for base camp use. If you're looking for a backpacking bag, don't waste your money on a Wiggy's. There is alot of good advice from previous posters. YMMV Tim.

our experience has been that while there may be better bags, the bags hold to their ratings very well, and we are not used to cold at all.... and they are big, bulky and heavy. Wouldn't use them on a backpacking jaunt again, but for base camp the bag system works extremely well for us. I think we have 5-6 systems rated to -20 with everything on them... IE thats outer and inner bag combination, I know this much, we've been almost sweating warm if using them combined and its above 20 in the tent....

That's because no synthetic breathes as well as down. No offense (PLEASE don't take any), but I've never found the idea "we were sweating" as a quality recommendation of a bag... I've sweat in a LOT of synthetic bags over the years in a variety of conditions and from a variety of makers...

The Taylor circus show, not impressed. Even tempted to duplicate the stunt in my ID down bag. Could be fatal.

well no offense taken, and the down bag we got from you allowed a LOT of moisture to vent out the top of the bag, in fact it took a long time to wipe off all the frost off the bag.... But thats life.

My meaning in sweating is that the bag was warm enough that we had to not zip up or take a liner bag off, so we didn't sweat. Meaning it held a true temp rating or sure seemed to. We've had the zero bag down to 5 so far and been just fine, close enough for me. I have had the 40 bag down to 25 and did grab a jacket in the early AM as it was getting a bit downright cool then, but 40 vs 25 is way apart IMHO.

And then again the wife and I sometimes get really hot in the wiggys bags, well other bags too.....

Our next backpack purchase will be Kifaru though....

What are you saying?

I"m saying we were pouring off moisture through the down bags too, IE very warm.

That was my main point, if you are warm in a bag, then its working right? And I didn't say sweating, I said we were to that point so we vented IE unzipped the bags. Which sure beats the heck out of being zipped up and shivering at temps ABOVE teh bags rating.

Wyo,
How do you like that ID bag?
I have heard good things.

Very nice bag, temp rating is good, light, compresses well. Everything a Wiggy's isnt. A little expensive though. Going to try a WM bag when this one wears out, could be a while.

I have a Big Agnes bag for walking hunting and a Wiggys overbag to use with it for winter tent/truck/horse packing type hunting. The combination has worked for me down to about -5 F in an unheated tent. The BA is light enough for my needs with a pack but I like roomy bags.

The Wiggatow invective is VERY wearing. He should have stayed in NY. Probably someone would have put him in the East River by now.

Thanks for the input.
As it happened, I purchased several WM bags, and I am very happy with them.
I do own some ID stuff, a Mega Sola shelter which I am very pleased with as well as a tarp and bivy sack.
Very good products.

Let me ask you an honest question. Do you know Marc Taylor? Have you ever talked to him on the phone or in person? Ever met him face to face? Or do you always judge folks by how the act on the internet? There's a few posters in this very thread that come across as an a$$hole 99% of the time but I bet their great guys in person. Folks commenting on something they have never used seems to be a common thing when Wiggys bags are brought up.

As for the Wiggys bags, I use an Ultra-Light 20 degree bag and it's the only bag I use on all my hunts, unless i'm sleeping in a big wall tent with a wood stove. I sleep in poly pro johns and have never been cold or got wet in it. I've worn wet clothes in my bag and got up the next morning to find that they were bone dry, though the outside of my bag did have some condensation on it. I'm not posting this to try and drum up business for Wiggy or Taylor, they do fine on their own and don't need any help from me or anyone else. If you want to use a WM bag or a Kifaru then my all means, go for it but don't make comments on something you know nothing about.

I know plenty about how Wiggy and Taylor act on here-since folks on the internet are also potential customers, their behavior doesn't speak well to me,not at all.
I don't do business with people like that,end of story.

If you know them personally and like their products, I have no problem with that.
But I stick with my statement, and if you don't like it, that is your right, also.

Like I said, I'm not trying to drudge business for either so I don't care where or what you buy. Bad mouthing someone you don't know doesn't help your cause in trying to sway folks into not doing business with them. All i'm saying is before folks jump on the bandwagon and bash someone they don't know, they should at least talk to them and find out for themselves if their a-holes or not. Apparently YMMV.

Also,Ak;
When I joined this forum about 3 years ago, I was looking into replacing 2 or 3 of my old bags.
I did a search on Wiggy's as they did sound like a good product, even if somewhat heavy- and stumbled across the man's notes or whatever, on his site.
I was not favorable impressed, to say the least.
I kept up with these sleeping bag threads on here and noticed Taylor's behavior.
I came to the conclusion that I wanted nothing to do with Wiggy's and over the last 2 1/2 years have spent 1500 dollars or so on other makers bags, which I am very satisfied with.
So, long story made short, I do judge people by their behavior on the internet, especially business people.

Wasn't either wiggy or taylor who prompted our purchase, in fact they almost both made the deal unworkable. But we did and its worked out.

As far as [bleep], well I never thought that was a good way to run a business, but a few here and there still work out even with their arrogant know it all attitudes and such is life.

I know if I ran a business like they did I"d be broke from lack of customers though.

While both may be just fine, I suspect Mark is better than Jerry actually and Mark is probably a super fine person but seems to have learned his sales tactics from jerry.... just saying....

Beanman, I never owned one and am far from a subject matter expert. But a guy does get a hefty walk-through-the-door discount if you buy one in person. Not sure how much that might play into the mix.

5... nice.

Art stated that Taylor was an OK guy, so I believe it.

But that's because I know Artsy-boy, and I find him to be a straight shooter, not because of the impression Mark gives here.

If I was trying to entice folks into my store, I might be nicer than I am online. In person, I'm a peach.

Still not interested in a Wiggy bag though.

I have a Superlight for sale if anyone is interested in a heavy brick that severely lacks in loft, six inches my azz... Let me know, might make a good dog bed if one didnt like ones dog very much.

Dont have much experience here, but am surprised to see that Taylor has such a bad rap on this site.

Seems cordial on the other site I'm on and in person, NOTHING but helpful and nice....Just my take...

True story, I bought two of the Wiggy's dog beds. My dogs would not sleep on them. Ended up just giving them away. I think this was more a reflection of the design of the beds which made them sort of "tippy" than as to my dogs' refined sense of taste.

I'll give you $20 shipped for that piece of [bleep] sleeping bag.

SuperDave,

The local through the door price for locals has been the only thing that kept one of these bags under consideration. I could walk out of the store with a bag for around $165.00.

My apologies to all in the forum, It was not my intention to start a 6 page long rant, I had no idea that feelings ran so strong.

Bean

Bean
No need to apologize!
You could not have known the situation here concerning Wiggy's.
If anything, I owe you an apology for helping to get this thread off track!!

Only one mention of Big Agnes bags so far. I have a BA Farwell 0 degree bag given as a gift this spring that I haven't used yet. Seems to be a nice synthetic bag but definitely doesn't stuff as small as my Western Mtneering down bag.

Does anyone using Big Agnes bags have any comments about temperature rating or any comparisons with Kifaru, or Wiggys bags? Thx.

BLM bought a bunch of those Wiggys for their firefighters...POS sleeping bag! I used mine once and went back to my personal Serria Designs downfill.

Been wondering the same. I've used their packable blow-up mats and they are WAY nice. Kinda like the idea of the slide-in mat....hate rollin' off...

Funny how some are fine in the "POS" bags and others are not.

I suspect it has a lot to do with HOW you sleep in a bag. And how cold natured or hot natured you are naturally and how your body is fueled at the time.

Can't say that we've abused the bags like the firefighters probably would though. I'd think military would be the same way and a true showing of how hearty the bag is. Fact is we don't use our bags more than 2 or 3 weeks a year at max, sometimes less, we might get more mileage out of them.

My experience with BA bags is temp ratings are off 15 deg about. I have four of them and love the comfort/roominess. I have a 50 deg, 35, and two 15s, the lost ranger(down) and a syn. The biggest issue for me is the pad. I have the regular insulated rated at 15 deg, it starts letting cold up from the bottom at 30 deg, wouldn't matter if it was a -40 deg bag. In Az it's not an issue until Dec/Jan bowhunts. If I was in colder weather more often I would get a down mat or add a closed cell like I do here. I also take the 35 deg and put it in the 15 if I need to, adds 1 1/2 lbs. The pad sleeve and the huge shoulder girth, even though I'm a small guy, are the winners for me.

With a 0 deg bag you need to match the pad to it and it will be good to 10 degs at least.

Best sleep I've ever had in the backcountry.

The montbell SS bags look like a heck of a bag, syn or down.

Slick bag also.

The Wiggy's specs just seem too, slumberjack, to me. I could be wrong but I don't see much difference.

Kent

Brad -- Check
cch -- Check
379Peterbilt -- Check
docdb -- Check
Yukonal -- Check
340boy -- check
ironbender -- check
wyoelk -- check

Hey, where's kutenay?! If she were here, it would be an OFFICIAL Wiggy-bashing thread! Somebody drop her a PM, would ya!

Wow. You guys are entirely too predictable.

Those of you who have dealt with me personally know that I'm a no-nonsense kinda guy. I don't sell anything that I have not proven to myself works as stated.

There's not a soul on this planet who knows more about sleeping in the cold than I. I make it my business to take these bags to the limits.

Not every person is the same, however, and I find that most don't really know much about sleeping in the cold when they venture out, therefore a person is bound to have a bad experience once in a while. About 3/4 of the time, regardless of the bag brand, it is the sleeper at fault because he/she expects too much from a "zip-yourself-in-a-bag-and-expect-a-good-experience" experience.

I take the time to educate each of my customers about the capabilities and limitations of each bag I sell. Including the HEAVY ones that are not necessarily backpacking bags.

My favorite is the overweight, middle-age man who wants a LIGHT WEIGHT sleeping bag for his upcoming sheep hunt. That is always fun! But, I still tell him like it is.

Wear too much in your bag? You're limiting the performance of your bag, not enhancing it. Don't hamper warm air from filling the bag. It will fill with warm air or cold air. Your choice.

Sleeping on an inflatable pad? You're heating air and the ground is cooling it faster than you can heat it.

Not munching before you go to the bag? You're gonna "run outa gas" and blame the bag.

Complaining about a draft collar? Failing to realize that you have one. Roll up an article of clothing, knucklehead!

Feet get cold? It happens to some. Get yourself some booties or the like. Not everyone has great circulation to the feet.

Going to bed cold? The bag is going to KEEP you cold. Go to bed WARM.

Condensation on the outside of your bag? GOOD. It's not on the inside of your bag. That is where the cold air is meeting the warm air.

Bag getting heavier every day? 'Cause it's DOWN! It doesn't breathe.

Cold on your COT? DOUBLE your pad. It's a must on a cot.


Okay, back to your bashing. Childish, but entertaining all the same.

Want to listen to these drooling idiots? Fine.

Want to know about sleeping in the cold in a Wiggy bag? Call me.

Taylor

I sold Wiggy Bags before you did. Have heard customer testimonials first hand. Have dealt with Wiggy.

Nuff said...

Over 800 Wiggy bags just in 2009 out of this shop, Brad. I can count customer bad experiences in the last 5 years ON ONE HAND. Some people just have no business sleeping outside, as I'm sure you know. Some just don't know how.

Not nocking or quesioning your experience, Brad. Just stating mine here.

Taylor

Ok, we have the wiggy's bag for 218.00
Slumberjack Gamma for 160.00
the BA farewell for 153.00
The montbell SS #1 for 175.00
North face Pyxis for 240.00

This is the related competition, construction and price.

Most of us here are researchers or gear heads. We're not buying camping sleeping bags. If we want a syn sleeping bag to pack, what's the best bag to get, that's all that matters here.

I would pick the North face for weight or the montbell for room, and pray I survive the night.

Kent

No offense, but thats about the stupidest thing i have ever heard. I use a sleeping bag to warm me when i am cold and keep me warm. Isn't that the purpose of a sleeping bag? All my sleeping bags seem to do that for me.

Big W -- I'll explain:

Sit around a campfire until your feet are cold and you get a chill, then go to the bag. You'll have a much harder time getting warm than if you have been up and around doing chores.

Many of my customers are sheep hunters. They are exhausted at the end of a day. Eat. Warm up. THEN go to the bag. Don't go to the bag exhausted and cold.

Put something warm in a Thermos and it will keep it warm. Put something cold in a Thermos and it will keep it cold.

krp - price is not a factor if you have weight/climate/size parameters that you are trying to meet and all models are not comperable.

Taylor

It sounds as if this Marc Taylor knows what he's talking about? I don't know why every one says he's so abrasive? Maybe the Wiggys bags are just too heavy to back pack?

I'm putting the the competition in a price range, it wouldn't be fair to compare the wiggy's with ID or the slick bag.

I simply put the montbell and NF above the wiggy's as better tech wise. The NF gives up 6 inchs of girth and that's not a little thing, but has the climashield neo that is great. It weighs at least a pd less at 3 lbs. The montbell is techniquely a better bag.

I love my BA bags but don't have to deal with cold below 10 deg often, wouldn't be my choice as a dedicated cold bag.

That leaves the wiggys and slumberjack gamma going head to head, they look alot alike spec wise, both USA made, a plus.

What's the magic of the wiggys, it's not the only bag with climashield, or has breathable fabric. It's not the roomiest, lightest, smallest packed.

On this site you have to sell to gear heads that look at everything. You have to prove your product. It's different than selling to some fat sheephunter that came to Alaska with no gear or knowledge.

I'm not against wiggys, never seen one, but spec wise it seems slumberjackish and not the best choice. Not your fault. That's what you are up against.

Kent

Well I know I am in the minority here as I actually LIKE my wiggy's bag. Its a 15 degree bag that has been perfectly warm down to 20 degrees so far and with the overbag its rated to -15 and took it down to lows of -20 and stayed warm just fine snowshoeing last feb.

I have owned slumberjacks in the past and atleast the models I was using do not begin to compare with the quality of the wiggy's atleast. I go to bed with damp clothes in the slumberjack and wake up just as wet as they were when I went to bed. In a wiggy's they seem to actually dry and yes the outside of my bag is damp, but the water had to go somewhere. I found them to be very true to the temp rating IME. But I also go to bed on a full stomach and sleep with a hat on, I just assume most people do this.

Granted at 3.5 pounds for a 15 degree bag it could be considered 1.5 pounds overweight comparing to some of the WM and Montbell down bags, but after feeling how clammy my buddy's down bag felt on Kodiak after day 4. I was pretty much sold that the extra 1.5 pounds is worth it if I am backpacking and my only real way to hope to dry my clothes out drying crappy weather is to sleep with it in my bag as often the case that is the only way to get my clothes dry when backpacking. And my wiggy's glacier hunter also compacts to about 2/3s the size of my other buddy's 0 degree BA down bag.

I was looking hard the Montbell Spirals at just under 2 pounds for a 15 degree bag that also has some stretch, but being as I am packrafting all summer in addition to less than impressive weather during hunting season makes be want to stay syn over down. No I'm not going to start the debate. If down works for you great, but Mr. Murphy likes me a lot I guess as he visits me often. And even in waterproof sil-nylon sacks things still seem to happen at times. No my tent doesn't leak, but other things. Example I slept on top of my camelback straw between my pad and bag. I know I know I'm just lucky

Not saying they are the end all and be all, but for my uses they work fine. If you are looking for a superlight weight bag then no wiggy's isn't for you. If you want a bag that is decently light and works well even when damp (not soaking wet) then you might consider a wiggy's. But like others said there are a ton of choices out there. Consider your needs and what works best for you and choose accordingly. I have no regrets about my purchase and after reading the posts here consider myself lucky.

Thanks, best laugh I've had all day.

alaska_lanche, with respect, comparing brands (Wiggy vs Slumberjack) doesn't tell us anything unless we know the kind of synthetic fill in each. Some companies use different kinds of synthetic fill in different bag models. There is considerable range of properties in various fills: weight to loft, longevity, condensation, softness, etc.

FWIW I slept three nights near timberline in a damp older and well worn Slumberjack Everest Elite last week, with the bag wet though in places. 48 hours of rain with strong gusty wind on ten inches of snow produced a sloppy flood, till it finally and blessedly froze hard the last night. I slept plenty warm and my wet synthetic clothes dried each night. I've done the same in a down bag.

I went to bed cold each night, though not deeply cold, and as has been my universal experience, I warmed up in my bag.

Marc, we know what you mean but you kind of overstated the case about getting into a sleeping bag cold will keep you cold. The thermos analogy isn't parrallel because the content of a thermos isn't producing heat like a metabolizing body does. A sleeping bag with a human in it has a heater in it. Unless the body is deeply hypothermic it generates heat which is captured inside the bag and everything inside gets warmer if it is a decent bag at all. As you modified later, if a person is really cold, especially if low on calories, it will take longer to warm up and that's for sure. He may not ever get warm enough to be comfortable. But a normal healthy body warms up the inside of a small insulated space to some extent.

Got a grin from your comment about knowing more about sleeping cold than any human on earth. There are a few old Innuit who know a little, and a northern Cree trapper friend of mine routinely sleeps out in minus 40 with no sleeping bag, blankets etc. He does like to have a piece of canvas to lay on. Now I know where to send him for pointers.

Agreed. However, the prices between the bags were the same. The temp rating on the sumberjack was for 0 vs. the wiggy's at 15. Been cold in the slumberjack at 20 degrees even though its rated for 0 and doesn't dry the clothes out as well either as the wiggy's. Also the slumberjack was heavier and didn't compress as well as the wiggy's. It doesn't really matter what loft amount, insulation type, or model of bag they cost the same and one does a better job of keeping you warm, is lighter, and allows moisture to pass to the outside of the bag more readily that is the bag I'll choose. However, that said I have never considered slumberjack a good brand of sleeping bag so wiggy's coming out on top of this comparison doesn't really say much.

Like I said work what works for you, if its a down WM bag then great, if its a $80 slumberjack then use that if thats what you like. We all get the chance to pick what fits us.

Alaska, nice report, haven't talked to ya in awhile. I'm interested in this because I'm also wanting to get a 0 deg synthetic bag. Seems now days all you can do is research specs. Optics, backpacks, sleeping bags, most everything.

On paper, looking at the midlevel bags, for a dedicated cold bag, it goes.
NF with climashield neo, weighs 3 lbs, the only issue is a 62 inch girth, much smaller than the rest.
Montbell SS synthetic, weighs the same as the wiggys, techniquely better with draft collar and roomier, should move moisture fine.
Wiggys, basically an oversized climashield military type bag system, not alot of features but serviceable.
The Slumberjack gamma is also a part of a military type SVCSS system, specs out like a clone of the wiggys, just longer, not your normal slumberjack.
The BA system I like but can be 6 1/2 lbs with a syn over bag and a down inner plus pad, defeats it's purpose, and I still need a closed cell pad. Works great at 25 deg and above.

I just wonder if the wiggys bag works fine and I don't doubt it when those like yourself say so, then will a better tech bag work better? For those that haven't bought a bag yet it's a realistic question. I wouldn't trade in a bag I already have if it's working. That's like guys who have to have the latest Bows, or packs or tents every year.

I guess the best question to ask is, if your bag was destroyed, would you buy the exact same one with all the choices now?

I'm thinking ahead for a black bear hunt in Alaska sometime.

Talk to ya later.

Kent

Well with the WM bags being twice as much as a Wiggys with not twice the performance, I dont know if I'd go that route.

Kinda like buying a Kimber vs. a NULA. You might not get QUITE the same performance with an ultralight 84M vs. the NULA but for 1/3 the price, it just might do OK....

Kent,

That Montbell bag looks interesting for sure. Are you looking at the 0 or 15 degree?

Not sure how well it compresses, but I am sure its comparable to the Wiggy's or better.

I am able to fit my 15 degree Wiggy's Glacier Hunter as well as my Big Agnes insulated air core pad, and all my clothes into my waterproof compression sack and compress it all down pretty small.

It all goes into this sack in fact:
http://www.rei.com/product/730884

Then it compresses from there and it all goes into the sleeping bag compartment in my pack with ease or strapped to the outside of me pack if coming out with an animal.

I was able to try on a Wiggy's bag prior to buying which I didn't have access to a Montbell which is why I went that route. Also being part of a sleep system for me is appealing to me as in the long run saves me $$$. Sure I guess if I had unlimited funds I'd buy a -40 WM down bag for winter camping as getting wet in the winter is less likely and for summer use I'd go with one of the bags you listed above if I was able to try them on. I just like the feel/cut of the Wiggy's bags. Plus I like the big retard zippers on them......because they don't seem to get caught not because I'm well ya know.

If I had to do it all over again I'd probably still go the route of the Wiggy's as its proven itself to be able to keep me warm and dry out my damp clothes better by passing moisture better than my NF cats meow or slumberjack bags I've tried. Just supersition I guess that these other bags won't work as good or better, but for know I'll go with I know what works. Good luck in your search Kent.

Now onto more serious things. The Alaska drawing application is in full effect and you need to be applying. Come on up for black bears we can chase some for sure. I'd prefer late september rather than the spring, but if all you can swing is the spring we'll make it happen so come on up with your Montbell so I can try it out.

Is my predictability good or bad....(smirk?)

I've been in your store more than once and in meeting you could tell in mere minutes you're a stand up gent and a pleasure to deal with to say the least. I have friends, who are also yours, and they will say the same thing. My comment about this thread having the potential to hit 5 pages is always true on a Wiggys thread, and that's the one thing every guy here in this thread can agree on, love the the bags or hate 'em.

I have the Wiggys bag, and I've used it on 2 Alaskan hunts, and it's going with me to Ak next year too (all 3 - moose hunts) I've used in an unheated tent, with a pad on the cold ground and woke up toasty every time. I've also used in in a heated wall tent, hardly a true test of any bag - However I will say that on the 9th day, we had all or gear flown out, save the basics so to camp one more night, so I slept in the bag, on my cot, without a pad. Waking up to a cold tent and not having a pad, my back was chilly. Imo, a pad is a must in any tent or bivy. I sleep hard, so when I'm out, I sleep fine. Perhaps others don't.

I dont hunt sheep with it, nor camp in -40 below temps with it, and I dont have another synthetic bag to compare it with, which is why I was reluctant to post. That, and I knew this thread had the potential flamage of the typical hot button threads, like "inter-racial marrage"..or "abortion".

I've never dealt with Jerry Wigutow, never needed to. I don't know first hand if the guy is anything like what is said here, but I could easily buy it. If a guy is an arrogant azzhole to his customers, it's a safe bet it will surface on the internet and the merits of that product will be slanted heavily, regardless of its craftmanship or attributes. I suspect this accounts for at least 50% of the negative posts here. Had I been talked to like a dog by someone who I'm contimplating spending hard earned money with, you can bet I'd too be going outta the way to share said displeasure, to put it nice.

Lastly, I will say that this bag is a true fother mucker to get rolled up tight enough to get it compressed to fit back in the carry bag......(grin)

Alaska, thinking the 0 deg bag. During the Dec/Jan archery hunts here in Az, it usually gets in the 20s and sometimes in the teens, and occasionally in single digits. My BA 15 bag is streched to it's limits even with an extra closed cell pad and light liner, extra cloths, hand warmers. I can still sleep cold. If I take an extra 35 deg bag I'm toasty but puts me at 6.5 lbs, and all down. Seems I could go with a 4 lb syn bag and my BA pad or prolite 4 for 5.5 lbs and also have a multi purpose bag for out of state hunting, hoping to get up where you're at soon.

Mark's claims are so outlandish it's hard to take him serious and I discounted wiggys. With your report of experiences it's back up in contention, I really want to try one now.

When I broke my leg in Sept elk hunting, It had been raining all afternoon, I was crossing a creek and drug myself out of the water onto the bank completely soaked. It was cloudy, in the 60s, evening time and the water was cold. In 15 minutes I was shaking uncontrollaby, shock, hypothermia, probably both. I was with someone else (Always hunt solo on my own hunts) because I was helping him on his hunt, we were day hunting. He was able to go and get help and get me out, it still took 4 hrs and I had plenty of time to play what if in my mind as I laid there.

If I was backpacking solo I would have had my BA bag, it might or might not have been wet. If I got in it there is no bottom and it is down. I would have to blow up the pad and get it in and then hope my cloths don't soak the down. I'm trying to survive a night that will get in the 40s. I already felt frozen in 20 minutes. Everything is soaked from the rain, I've made fires in those conditions before but not with a broken leg, my leg was completely snapped, flopping side to side, I don't believe I could move around enough to get dry fuel. I would have tried if I had to though. I didn't have duct tape in my daypack but do in my backpack and I didn't have my trekking pole, the two things I wanted for sure to stabalize my leg. Just an observation, temps in the 40s to 60s don't seem dangerous, even wet. I got to the hospital at 10 something at night, they did not get my body temp up to normal till the next morning even putting heated blankets on me every hour.

Lightning will probably never strike me twice and I'm not afaid of going back out or even dieing out there, might as well be comfortable doing it though.

Next time I want a big syn bag to crawl into, duct tape and pole sections to stablize my leg. Oh, I better get SPOT or my wife won't let me go.

Kent

OK, that was a danged good post



I've stated before, Marc was very good when I bought my Wiggy's bag from him, enjoyed the customer service.

can't say why he feels the need to chest thump so hard when he's on here.

I've no doubt Taylor has BTDT, but he ain't the only guy that has.

some of the guys that he called out have some decent experience bping and hunting.

I've done a fair bit of both myself.

guys killed game with open sighted lever guns and trapper nelson packboards, and the guys that know how to hunt still could and use a woolen blanket for their sleep system if necessary. It's the Indian not the arrows.

this IS the bping thread, with a bit of personal experience in bp hunting, if I have a guy new to the gig ask me what sleep bag he should purchase, it's not going to be a Wiggy's bag. Not because JW is an umitigated azzhole or that Taylor doesn't come across here as well as he does via the phone, it's just based on experience of using different bags including the Wiggy's bag.

that ain't bashing, it's just a natural fact.

I don't have a Kimber, I use a NULA now, why? they don't make a lh Kimber, so even though I finally bought a NULA and really like it, I wouldn't reco it to a newbie, you got to make sure hunting high country is really your gig and face it, it's not for everybody, you must make compromise on creature comforts to do lightweight bping.


perhaps it's Taylor's Marine background IIRC, you either fight or flight, give me a guy that'll fight anyday. But I wish for Marc's sake and those of his friends that have his back that he could let a little more of the MT show through here and what I experienced on the phone than what he does.


I'm sure Marc could do what he's done using another brand bag, and I could get by with my Wiggy's if that's all I had to work with, but for bping in my personal experience I think there's better choices.

but I don't expect the Ford salesman to drive a GMC cause I drive one.


I will say I found it telling his obvious disdain about "middle aged fat guys wanting to hunt sheep"

I guided for a spell and I saw that attitude in some of my coworkers,
yeah it's frustrating to have a client that's overweight and not in good shape, (have also seen guys with a pot belly that could walk most guys into the ground, so you never know) but hell if they didn't need your services they wouldn't be paying for them.

some of those middle aged fat guys would have loved to hunt sheep in their 20-30's when they were studs, but life gets in the way sometimes, they have mortgages, kids to put thru school etc. by the time they feel they can spend that money on themselves they've been in mgmt, parked behind a desk and had too many good dinners.

I always tried to be grateful for every client we had, their check clearing is what paid my wages and allowed me to spend so much time outdoors.

different strokes for different folks, whether bags or how we view our customers or potential customers/

I've had 2 Wiggy bags for awhile now.Didn't get them from Marc because he wasn't around then.

They're good bags but they do not have the supernatural powers some proclaim.

For me Wiggy's bags are not for backpacking,just to heavy and bulky.

Thank you. You just made an astute post yourself.

FWIW I need to buy a new bp bag so am paying attention here and to other sleeping bag threads. My aging Slumberjack was a gift, chosen for its light weight, about two pounds, with never any illusions about it being top of the technology. I use it way less than a no label one pound bag of unknown origins. I picked it out of a bin of left over gear donated to a wilderness camping program by North Face, I think. I suspect it was some kind of one-off test bag. My friend who ran the program told me to take anything I wanted because they had taken everything they could use.

I seldom backpack in deep cold anymore, though for late Oct. and early Nov. hunts in mountains along the Canadian border we have to be prepared for sudden deep cold. I have some big hefty bags for deep cold when transported by vehicle, and on a few Oct. horse hunts I've taken both the one and two pound bags, using both at once in base camp and using the light bag for distant bivvies. It's time I replaced both of those bags, and there are more choices for "summer weight" bags now.

Personal factors of discomfort/comfort vary so widely between different people that it takes some experience and reading between the lines to evaluate what people say in terms that apply to my style. My tolerance for what would be discomfort for many people is pretty high. Because of those personal factors, plus variations on how people use bags (on what kind of pad, wearing what inside, fully zipped? etc.) I totally ignore temperature ratings for sleeping bags. They may be of some value for the same basic models of bags from the same company.

Sounds like I need to meet Marc in person and pick his brain.

I bought two bags sets in '99 from Wiggy, I finally got in cold enough conditions this month to zip the Ultima Thule fully.

I don't have problems with Jerry. I am polite to all, and usually get that back. I called Jerry yesterday on an issue and he asked me to return the product.

jim

Me neither....

I blame my Mother...she's lefty also...

I find duct tape so handy I started re-wrapping some (camo duct tape of course) just below each handle on my trekking poles. Its always there if I need it!

MtnHtr

MH, That's a heck of a tip there, as long as you have your trekking pole you have the means of stablizing a lower extremity. Not having my trekking pole with me, and it was in the truck, was only one of a few bad decisions I made that day. What I learned is a lower extremity injury is immoblizing, most anything else you at least have the possibility of walking out on your own. Bad mojo.

Kent

Sorry if describing my experience is bashing. The first Superlight I ordered was a long/wide based on the recommendation of the manufacturer. I am 6' and 200 lbs. It was way too big for me and weighed 6 lbs. on my digital scale. I replaced it with a regular/wide which was a much better fit. That one went just over five pounds. Advertised weights are 4 _ lbs. for the reg/wide whatever that means and 5 lbs. for the long/wide. I have a short Superlight for my kids that weighs 3.8 lbs. but it is a pretty small sleeping bag. If you find that a good weight for a backpacking sleeping bag rated at 0 degrees, good for you. I don't. I also find one pound swings from advertised to actual weights in backpacking gear to be problematic. As this is the backpack hunting forum, I thought that's along the lines of what we were talking about.

I tried the BA system, synthetic, down and a combination of the two, and although I like the concept and the roominess, I had the same problem as others as to losing warmth through the bottom in cold weather. Hope that wasn't bashing.

For clarification:

The remark about a middle-aged overweight sheep hunter was not faulting the hunter for being overweight or middle-aged, which I share both of those traits; instead it was the request. You no longer FIT in a 2.5 lb bag when you reach a certain bulk, regardless of age.

People expect miracles from sleeping bags when they have limited experience. I am no miracle worker.

I REFUSE to sell a regular-width bag to a man. PERIOD. Men have wide shoulders and WILL NOT FIT in a 31"-wide bag. He'll get cold because he is compressing insulation and then wind up here telling all how Wiggy bags don't work.

I have missed many a sale by not budging from that. Guy is focusing too heavily on the bag weighing less on his back that he doesn't even care if it fits when he sleeps in it! We quibble over a pound and chances are he's carrying a bunch of extra pounds anyway! It's ridiculous.

Outlandish claiims? I don't get it. Go dump a half-gallon of water in a Montbel bag at or near zero degrees and come back and tell us about your 8+ hours in the bag. And don't give me - "but I take special care not to get my bag wet..." Good for you. I sell bags in Alaska. I try to fail the bag within its claimed capabilities. I haven't been successful at that yet. Even with a soaked bag. I sell you a bag that may get wet and still keep you warm.


What is a "higher tech bag"? A quilted bag is not higher tech. It's quilted because the insulation will bunch or shift without quilting. ALL nylon fabrics are DWR treated and initially repel water to some degree. You waterproof a bag and you create a sauna. Not good. So water-proof is not higher tech.

Down holds moisture. You stay below freezing in a down bag and it will get heavier by the day. Moist when you are in it and frozen when you are not. Not much high tech about that.

DONT attempt to roll up a Wiggy bag to put it in a stuff sack. Just choose an end and start stuffing until it is all in.

Alaska_Lanche -- You are not LUCKY. You simply have not attempted to go beyond the bag's limitations, that we discussed, and you know how to sleep in the cold.

These threads should be about the bags and their limitations, NOT about Taylor and Jerry. But when I see my name being dragged around unjustly, yes, you get to deal with me on a personal level.

I've had more than one polar bear hunter call me for another bag after he had to leave his Wiggy bag with his native guide in Canada, so... Maybe they are looking to get out of them caribou hides!

5 degrees this morning at my house. Gonna be a COLD winter, and a BUSY one here at Wiggy's-Alaska!

Taylor

FVA, was reading through this thread again and your comment about not using a pad really surprised me. No criticism here. I'm all for each of us doing what he wants, but how do you stay warm? I decided many moons ago based on hard cold experience over many nights that if I had to choose either sleeping bag or good pad for a night outside in the bush, I'd take the pad. I've bivied that way, pad only, in several inches of November snow above 7000 feet elevation in the Rockies. Of course that is dry cold and easy to build a fire.

How do you keep the part of your body warm that is in contact with frozen ground or ice beneath you? Can you rake up enough duff, leaves or evergreen needles etc. to insulate you from the ground? Either you are a tough hombre or you have some tricks I'd like to learn. I've put a pack under me and slept on it.

I continue to be amazed at the experience and quality proven info on this forum.

There was enough duff that I didn't have to rake it up and to tell you the truth I am a tough hombre(wink) Being a dairy farmer and the 7 day weeks and working outside every day even if sick will do that to you.
Certainly frozen ground/ice would warrant more consideration but I did the same under the stars at close to 10,000 ft. in Wyoming in similar temps. Same Wiggy bag.

Interesting on the comments about the wiggy bag ratings and wearing extra clothes. I find I'm much warmer in any bag if I'm sans clothes or sans most of the clothes.

I never believed a buddy about that but got cold in an older ECWS bag a few times until I tried it, that being only probably mid 20s at nights.

Then used the same bag in AK and followed the sans clothing rule and we had as low as 5 in the tent in the mornings and was snug as a bug.

So I do think that besides personal metabolism, how you use your bag has a LOT to do with it.

Of course if trying to sell the product and you come across as a gal on the rag, that doesn't help any....

Marc, you're cracking me up, when you claim to be the world's greatest anything, that's outlandish and taints whatever else you may say.

"What is a "higher tech bag"? A quilted bag is not higher tech. It's quilted because the insulation will bunch or shift without quilting. ALL nylon fabrics are DWR treated and initially repel water to some degree. You waterproof a bag and you create a sauna. Not good. So water-proof is not higher tech."

That doesn't describe any bag I had on the list. That's like putting an elaphant, lion and monkey together and calling everything in the jungle that.

Now, I'm having a little fun with you cuz you set yourself up.

Anyway, have you actually put water in a Montbell syn bag and compared? That would definately be useful info along with Alaska Launche's report. Have you compared it with any other's?

I'm looking at bag's, I understand nylon and insulation from doing MYOG projects, a 0 deg bag isn't one I want to try. Tell me real world knowledge between the wiggys and others. If it's close I may buy one because it's made in the US.

Alaska's opinion speaks alot, I absolutely understand,'It works for what I do, might be something better but no use to change'. I'm that way with alot of my stuff.

Questions you can answer.

Can you weigh an individual bag and if so what's the weight of a 0 deg, reg size bag?
What other synthetic bags have been tested with the wiggys, for whatever test?

Kent

I haven't been able to go out this fall and was just testing the cloths thing last spring when it was still chilly. Being a small guy in a big bag, instead of putting the cloths on, I rat nested them inside around me. Seemed to work well but not enough times to know for sure.

Kent

Marc, I DID call you when I was looking for a bag. I gave you the parameters of my hunt and you told me which bag to get (the mountain hunter), and that's the one I bought. I'm not an expert like alot of the gear junkies on this site.

About wearing too much. Only one night out of 10 did the water bottles have ice in them. Weather stayed above freezing. I bought the 23 degree bag. First night I only wore fleece pants and top. Shivered all night. Second night added a fleece hat. No help. Third night I added a shirt and pair of pants. Cold all night. Finally ended up with a fleece jacket on top of everything. I tried it all ways.

I had my inflatable mattress [inside] my bag--not on the ground getting cold.

Had a nice warm meal every night before hitting the hay.

Condensation on the outside--I was glad to see it, proved your wicking claims and can see the benefits.

Drooling idiots? I don't recall anyone calling you any names. Unreal...

Recall me saying I felt it is a well built bag? I stated I think the 25 degree rating on the mtn. hunter is a bit optomistic. I stand by my statement. Oh, by the way, I normally sleep hot, home, hotels, camping, etc.

Marc, I wasn't "bashing" your product. I bought a lot of expensive top-of-the-line equiptment for my sheep hunt.Everything performed flawlessly, and made my trip a pleasure. Except my bag. I stand by my original post.

If you would like to replace my bag with one that will REALLY keep me warm in the conditions I described to you in our phone conversation, I will be happy to send this one to you for replacement.

Al

I'll give you this, too much clothes as I've noted is BAD in a bag. Only if I'm freezing my butt off in a bad bag would I try to get more clothes on and at that point it would be everything I had and drape the bag over like a quilt.....

The air mattress thing is BS. I have wiggys pads. They are by far the COLDEST thing I've slept on ever. Sans bare ground. The air mattress keeps a layer in between, with the wiggys I compress it to the ground, no way around that and it has ZERO insulation ability compressed.

Al, can't say what to say as I've been cold in a 40 degree wiggy bag at around 25, but put my wool pants and jacket on and that was fine enough to sleep soundly then. I don't have a 23 degree bag but I'd think it have to be warmer.

I also again think there are things like body metabolism and bag size...I mean its almost like a bag needs to fit you just right, too big and its a waste and too small and it compresses and a waste. Don't know what to say beyond that.

Other than Wiggys ain't no backpacking bag unless you have a big pack and can carry some extra weight.

I'm going Kifaru next time and see, IF its like many others say that may be the ultimate synthetic bag and light enough to backpack.

For all you fellas freezing your arses off at night: Do you pack and wear some type of head beanie to bed? And do you wear a thick pair of Smartwool socks?

I've never been cold and I've camped/slept down to 17degF below zero. I also wear a down vest over two baselayers in my bag if necessary.

Layering traps heat in those pockets of air.

MtnHtr

I like wearing a wool beanie and socks, for sure.
Especially at subzero temps.

Marc sorry if I read you wrong on your comment about middle aged overweight sheep hunters. I may be thin skinned on the subject as I have become one!

I'll go home and pour water in my bag and toss it out in the yard, if the wife survives it, I'll try it later, maybe.

I wear synthetic trunks, same for socks, not wool etc... but a polypro wicking sock. Wools are in the foot bed just in case though and to dry out, inside out....

I always have some type of head gear on. As we are much more used to ( I never said enjoy...) 110 degrees, than anything under freezing, its often a full face balaclava type deal.

Always wanted to order one of those sleeping bag head/hood setups I've seen but never have...

Okay, YukonAl, you got me.

I'll call Wiggy on Monday and ask him how many Mountain Hunters he's made for me. He'll say something like 250 or so. I'll divide 1 by 250 and come up with a number --- .004. That will be the percentage of customers who have said that they slept 10 nights above or near freezing in a Mountain Hunter 25-degree bag and didn't get one night of good sleep.

Can't ask for much better than that. .004% Failure rate.

Then I'll ask how many people can fit their sleeping pad inside their sleeping bag and have it fit better than it did before, when the sleeping pad was on the outside. I'm sure there'll be ONE there too who says he is better off with his INFLATABLE mattress stuffed into his bag. With compressed insulation all around him.

I have never gotten a full night sleep on an inflatable pad either, but we'll put that as "beside the point". I either use closed-cell-foam, or a Wiggy pad or both in the winter.

I want you to wash, dry and box that Mountain Hunter up and send it back with a copy of your receipt if you have one and I'm going to send you a check for your full purchase price. I'll then sell it used within a matter of days, at a discount, to someone who will know what to do with it.

I can't count the number of good nights sleep I've gotten in one of those bags. At AND below freezing.

And you know that bag I dumped water in last winter? It was a Mountain Hunter. Go back and read the thread again.

Not discounting your experience, just not ever going to try to sleep on an air mattress inside or outside a sleeping bag unless maybe it is above 60 degrees and I failed to bring my pad and my buddy has two. Then I'll put it on the outside of the bag... Where it belongs...

I'll be expecting that bag by the end of next week.

Taylor

379 Peterbilt - Sorry for including you in that list, but for future reference ALWAYS bet Over on a Wiggy's thread! :-))

Okay, fellas, I'm out until Tuesday. See ya then!

Taylor

The line has moved to 6...(grin)

Wow!

I go elk hunting for a week and come back to 10 pages on a Wiggy's thread.

Who'd a figgered?

Wiggy's bags suck.

There, someone had to say it and that should guarantee 10 more pages

I don't think they suck. Mark and Jerry do. I would say they are as good or better than a Slumberjack or a Coleman. If you don't mind the weight of a couch in your pack you should be good to go.

Big Agnes Summit Park works for me.

http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Bag/SummitPark

Couch??? Come on man thats a bit much. Its more like a loveseat.

I leave for a few days and come back to find a blown up Wiggy's thread. Imagine that...

A quality piece of gear like that should be well worth what I nearly paid for it, heck, it's hardly used. I promise to knock off the dog hair. Still interested?

What do you expect, anytime someone brings up a Wiggys bag you guys attack the maker and one of his top sellers, Marc is right, you are so predictable. $20 is my final offer, i'm not paying you $150+ for a heavy brick sleeping bag not suited for a dog, as you so eloquently put it.

Show me on this thread where I attacked Wiggy or Marc. I simply stated that I own a Wiggy's bag and exactly what I think of it. Owning one gives me the right to share my views on it, do you not agree? My only comment toward Marc was that I thought his water on the bag was nothing more than a circus stunt. I think several on here agree with that. I stand by what I said, a heavy p.o.s. not fit for a dog.

P.S.- I wouldnt pay 150 for it either, knowing what I know now.

And your opinion was quite detailed and thorough, thanks for sharing!

So Marc takes his sleeping bag outside in the middle of winter in well below freezing temps, dowses it with water and then sleeps in it and you call that a circus stunt? Sounds like he wanted to see if it would evaporate the water from his bag and also test it to see if it would keep him warm at freezing temps and it worked.

Fact of the matter is, there are several members here who don't like Taylor or Wiggy and use the Wiggy's sleeping bag threads to let everyone know about it. Here's another fact, his detractors have never talked with him over the phone nor met him in person yet they know what kind of businessman he is. Oh the power of the internet.

P.S. My offer of $20 still stands, take it or leave it.

Good post AK, and if Marc and Jerry came off even better as business people, I often wonder how much business they are missing because of the attitude.

I mean really, how much would you want to really call someone after you've read their smart azz comments.

Agreed, if you see me doing that feel free to call me an azz. My posts are based on my experiences in the bag, nothing more or less.

I am going to try the water in and on the bag this winter, dressed like Marc was. Like I said, it could be fatal....

Screw that, be a man and jump in that saturated bag in your skivies..........now there's a cold weather test for you!

If one person says, after personal use, that a certain manufacturer's ratings are overstated and another person says, after personal use, that they are understated, they are both correct.

Great bag,love mine...

Fact: Met Mr. Wigutow, spoke with him, corresponded with him via email, participated in online discussions with him that contained numerous comments of varying tenor by him. Some of this contact was very positive, others not so much.

Fact: NONE of the bags I've purchased from him (five I think) have been close to advertised weights. That has been one of my biggest CRITIQUES of those bags based on MY EXPERIENCE. The Kifaru Special (what he called it at the time) was pretty close and although bag ratings are subjective and I sleep cold, I didn't find it even close to being a 20 degree bag.

People ask about the bags looking for opinions and if someone has anything negative to say, it is suddenly considered bashing by those who like or sell them. Are we all supposed to worship at the Wiggy's alter and not find fault? I have tried them and found them wanting in areas, regardless of the temperament of the owner of the company. If he was the nicest guy in the world, they would still be heavier than advertised and difficult to compress or at least the few that I've purchased.

I also find it ironic that the only way to properly use these bags is near naked when Jerry himself has discussed extending their ratings using the sweater and chaps. Of course he only said that on an internet forum in reply to a question from me so perhaps that doesn't count?

Opinion: AkMtnHntr, if his bags work great for you, that's wonderful. I don't begrudge you your choice and it's a great thing to be happy with your gear, but if someone comes on and asks about the bags, don't knock someone else who has had a different experience and don't assume that you know about everyone's experience with the company or owner.

CCH, I've also been looking at the Kifaru bags (my son wants my BA Farwell). Are you saying the bag is warmer or colder than the 20 degree rating?

If you would have read this entire thread, you would have seen that I had already stated that I did not know Jerry Wigetow other than a few posts that he has written. My comments were about Marc Taylor and I was spot on in the above qouted text. Posting your experience on a prodcut is one thing, posting your comments about a person you dislike who sells said product is something entirely different and THAT, was the jest of my post. I never said the Wiggys bags are the end all but I find their ratings to be just about spot on. Like what was said previously, everyone sleeps differently and what is a warm bag to one might be a cold bag to another. I'm not sure what your talking about with the "near naked" comment but if your referring to my last post, it was meant as a joke, in case you missed it.

That was NOT a current Kifaru bag, it was a lightweight bag suggested over on the Kifaru forum some time ago and manufactured by Wiggys. He called it that for a while until that went south. I have no experience with the bags made by Kifaru so I can't comment on them.

Akmtnhntr, have read the whole post if only for the entertainment value, just going by what I quoted from that post and the context in which I interpreted it. I know a few of the posters here and their experience are direct with the manufacturer. To many people that counts for a lot.

...YAWN...

I'm sending out the 2ND order as a result of this thread. One Glacier Hunter and one Ultima-Thule. Lengthy discussions both, and each thought you guys were just trying too hard to steer them AWAY. Now figure that out!

I think I'm actually starting to look forward to these threads.

To the two customers, THANKS for trusting me and allowing me to assist, and if I can answer a question or concern, bring them to ME and I'll take care of it properly.

Spoke with Wiggy about this thread. He's very entertained and wants to send a hearty "Thank You" for the free advertising.

With that I think I'll allow this thread to die a happy deaath!

Thanks again!

Taylor

The thread has been very clear if you clear the foggy posts out.

Bags work good. Don't have as much loft as advertised but plenty warm for a few of us from TX. They don't compress well and they are not light, so for backpacking, nope ain't doing that drill again either.
But for the truck camper type person or even on horse they'd do just fine.

I have come to learn that the missing draft collar would be nice, but so far its caused no big issues.

Backpacking wise I'd sure look a different direction.

And its smart azz comments like YAWN.... that make Marc seem the azz, if he would only learn...maybe he'd have 12 orders by now instead of 2....

I have too much respect for my horses. Less for horses asses.

You really think so huh? Sorry but that ain't Taylor's style to let folks talk bad about him or his business. Apparently enough folks can sift through the BS that some of you bashers like to post in these threads, and have enough balls to actually talk to the guy in question about his bags. I swear some of you guys are like children and are afraid of the big bad woof of the internet. Grow a pair and call him, he won't bite you.

As long as I live in Alaska, i'll continue to use Wiggy bags for my hunting and back packing trips and should one ever not keep me warm, you'll be the first ones to know about it.

Looks like the Slick bag is the way to go with a synthetic. 296.00 over 200.00 for the wiggys but 2 lbs instead of 4 and smaller carry, a few other features also. Double the advantage for an additional 1/3rd price.

I've had a WM and it was super made, just bought one that was to narrow at 59 inchs and sold it, been meaning to get another but now want a synthetic due to my accident.

Kent

Correction, that is 1/2 more on price, should have went off the 200.00 not the 296.00.

I've had one and liked it. I even bought it after reading what I thought were assanine comments by one Jerry W. I'm not talking about comments he made in self defense. I even bought one in spite of learning that one Mr. Taylor appears to be his own biggest fan. Have at it. I try to be objective. I assume Mr. Taylor is incorrect in his assetion of being the greatest because he couldn't hold a candle to me (hey a guy has to have some level of self-confidence). I know what I've done and can do. However, it has been my experience his representation of said bags has been similar to my "personal experiences". Although since I'm not a seller of said bags I don't have the desire to do the whole "water-in-the-bag-in-the-freezing-weather" thing. I'll take their word for it. Different people have different opinions. As long as they are truly based on personal experiences, I'll listen. If there are opposing opinions, I'll take it all with a grain of salt and see for myself.

I have two of his bags...the 0 and 35 degree bags for 6 years or so now. They have their uses but are typically not the bag of choice when I go on a trip. However, if you told me I had to buy a bag today and it was the only bag I could use for the rest of my life I'd probably get a Wiggy.

Washed and dried 11/16. Shipped 11/17, expected to arrive Anchorage 11/20. Thank you for your offer to refund.

Why should I call him. Its his business he is potentially ruining here. No sweat off my azz. I don't need to talk to him as my family has 5 wiggys bags already.
And after some of his idiot comments on an archery thread, I've pretty much written him off as most likely a fine guy around a campfire but a smartazz online. His call there.

I"ve watched similar arguments on an airboat forum about reductions, the guy that gets the most business simply comes on and gives the pros and cons IHHO, of belts, gears, ratios and such. And why you'd choose each scenario, meaning his work fine for certain things, but maybe not the best for others. Then other manufacturers come on full blown how theres is the only and the only choice etc... and the rest are junk and so on.
I only have to say, guess who generally gets the most business, whose customers stump for him and so on...

I"m impressed by the refund offer though!!

Jeff

My statement was a general one and aimed at his detractors, not at you in particular. As for the refund offer, doesn't surprise me one bit and i've been saying that all along.

Well, I just dove in headfirst into the Wiggys world...we'll see. Maybe I'll spend a night outside my house to test it

My bad! Never been cold in a wiggys yet, unless it was past its ratings... but those damn fishnets are fugly....

Which bag did you get?

Fishnets is for women......

hunt ak got this one:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ggy_s_Ultra_Light_Sleeping_B#Post3490340

That's a smoking deal on the FTRS system, cept he got screwed on the pillow...........grins

Hence my diving in headfirst

Screwed on the pillow?!? What?! Let me know how so!

Rost, not only are the fishnets fugly, you should see what they do to your nipples with a heavy pack on. <G> Tim

Don't worry hunt_ak, it's an inside joke. Anyone that owns a Wiggy pillow know's exactly what i'm talking about. Go to the Pristine Ventures site and do a search, you'll see what i'm talking about.

Ahh....

Thought you meant I should have got two pillows since they each come w/ one new...

Off to become an 'insider'

You'll wish you had "none" by the time you get finished with those threads...........hahahahaha!

Well after registering for YET ANOTHER site, I'm now an 'insider'...

Guess I'll have to give this jewel a spin and see if I can keep my head on this 'greased pig'!