Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting What distance is "long range"?

This comes up often, and we all have our opinions. I'll share mine, and see where this leads.

In my mind, there is no hard distance answer to the question.

Long range shooting begins at the distance where long range shooting PRINCIPLES and TECHNIQUES are applied. Basically anything past max PBR.

What are long range principles?

- Range determination (LRF, reticle subtension, mildot master, SWAG)

- Correction for drop (Science. El turret, reticle holdoff)

- Wind call ( this is the art of LR)

- Correction for wind (Windage turret, holdoff)

- Correction for slope (determining horizontal distance to target)

I quickly spun these principles/techniques out of my head, might have overlooked something else obvious.

With my 308 and 30-06s, long range begins at about 250 yards, with an initial elevation setting of 200 yards applied to the elevation turret.

I mostly use a LRF, and sometimes a Mildot Master for range determination, elevation turret for drop correction, usually a reticle holdoff for wind correction.

Slope correction is not something I have to concern myself with too often. There is a spot I shoot where I'm about 500 ft above my target, at a lased range to target of 1050 yards. My 1000 yard dope puts me on target. I understand the concept of horizontal distance to target being the relevant information for an accurate drop correction.

Open for your methods, opinions, comments, disagreement, or what have you.

can't argue that no matter who you are or what your abilities are, that long range begins when you have to start thinking past simply putting the crosshairs on the target and pulling the trigger.

for a .22LR, that would likely be past about 75 yards from a 50yd zero ... for a 'standard' centerfire cartridge I agree that it's about 250 yards from a MPBR zero ...

for me personally, I can typically hit (within an inch or so) of my intended POI out to about 250-300 yds with my centerfires, but after that I have to spin turrets and/or hold off for wind. Even then, it's pretty 'easy' until I get to about 500 yards ... at which point I really have to 'work' to make sure I have everything in order to make the shot - meaning, the rifle/loads have to be well tuned in, I have to have a good solid rest, and I can't be in a hurry or winded (heavy breathing and heartbeat) so that I can concentrate on proper form, trigger pull and follow thru.

I also realize that for some people who are really good shots, that "long" doesn't start until you're at 800 yards or so. I'd love for that to be me, but I'm not there yet. Despite the fact that I get to shoot a good bit these days, I just don't have a lot of opportunities to really stretch things out enough to get ample practice at really extended ranges.

Shane, I envy you guys who can basically step out of your front door and start banging away at 1000+ yards ... I can only imagine that 500yds and closer feels like you're wasting time.

this seems to come up quite often and we also get bashed for not aggreeing on what exactly is long range.

I do aggree that long range is past MPBR, when LR shooting pricibles come into play, but I do not consider that a long shot if you know what I mean.

The biggest factor in what people think is long range is there ability. Some think that long range is 400yards and that is as far as anyone should shoot. I can respect that because they are staying withing there abilities (maybe) and are not confident shooting past that. Point is long range is not defined in a book somewhere it is defined by each persons confidence level so it is going to vary.

I think that what a lot of people get caught up in is stating there max range they shoot at, for me, I shoot out to 1500 yards on a regular basis, but that is certainly not where long range starts for me. This is often misunderstood.

My methods are much the same as yours. I use a LRF and sometimes when practicing I will try some mildot ranging just for grins in combination with a clinometer and a calculator to figure TBR, elevation drop turret, and holdoff for wind, although I have also been practicing spinning turrets for wind the last year or so.

Longrange hunters are misunderstood by other hunters in the same way that hunters in general are misunderstood by the libtards. It is human nature to reject and denounce what you do not understand.

The degree of difficulty definitley increases exponentially with distance.

From the point of reference of the 308 Win, 500 yards is a relatively easy shot. 1000 yards is a lot more than twice as difficult. Mostly because of the wind, and the art involved.

My 308 155 Scenar load drifts about 15" at 500 (10 mph, f/v), compared to 75" at 1000 yards.

Great topic and I'm interested in seeing the replies that it generates. I like the definition so far of long range. Seems about as universal as we're likely to get.

For me, LR starts around 250-300 yards with my big game rifles. I then have a pretty slim window of "LR" before it is called simply "too far". That's part of why I'm here - to listen and learn about ways to stretch that a bit (even if just for the sake of confidence in my shooting). That's also why you'll find me asking much more than answering on this forum

I am using a LR with a BDC type reticle. Definitely have room to grow there but also know next to nothing in real world experience about dealing with the wind. I know the charts, but that doesn't mean diddly without learning how to estimate the wind and apply the correction. Seems like this is MUCH more of an issue than drop in my book.

Thanks to the guys here who are willing to help out in this quest! Seems like a pretty good group but also a bit touchy at times as you guys are tired of being attacked for the LR stuff. Can't say I blame you much of the time but it does make "newbies" like me think a bit carefully about how to word things on here.

Stan you are one of the good guys in here. You are doing the right thing trying to learn from these guys, they have a lot to offer. Keep asking as may questions as you like. If you have a question you don't want to air publicly you can always drop me a PM and I would be happy to help you out if I can.

MM & all,
Good thread!
Wind is the thing that whips up on me still at times.
One thing that slapped me around several years ago, was that wind needs to be vertical doped at times as well.
Seeing wind from a 3-dimensional perspective has helped me a lot, while humbling me at the same time
Ernie

Roger that, on the vertical wind. I get it here too, especially up on a hill shooting down, into the wind. It blows up the hill giving some 'lift'.

Yep, there is no such thing as a "zero" value wind at long ranges. It had me confused for a while.

heavywalker - I appreciate that. I'll keep putting in trigger time and asking questions. Almost can't help but improve that way

Stan, I have some experience to share that may, or may not relate to you. It should be noted that I have started to relay this numerous times, but have not for fear of upsetting some. I conducted an experiment last year, using a new shooter, who has hunted with me for the past 3 or 4 years. He comes to the range with me once, maybe twice a year just before hunting season. It should be noted that during the mid to late seventies, he served in the USAF, and shot quite a bit at that time. He wanted a new rifle, as he had been using one of mine. I built him a Rem 700 in .300WM, and topped it with a vintage Scopechief 3X9X40 with BDC. This is the scope that has the interchangeable inserts on the elevation dial for different loads. The other two fellas present, are of about the same level, as far as trips to the range, rounds fired, etc. The rifles these fellas had were also a .300 WM and a 30-06. Both of these rifles were topped with older Vari-X II glass in 3X9 configuration. I had set up my 18" gong at 500 yards, and had been poking it at will with my .243. I invited the others to shoot my rifle. The two .300WM fellows also hit the gong at will, and did not miss. The 30-06 guy needed a bit of convincing, as he dismissed this whole LR stuff as a bit of a stunt. He had never taken a shot past 250 yards. Ever. I finally got him to shoot. He also hit the gong at will, and did not miss 5 out of 5 shots. The other .300WM fella, not USAF, decided he wanted to try and hit the gong with rifle, now that he saw how easy it was. I could not help him, as he had no turret on his scope. He figured he could hold over and hit it no problem. Several shots later, he had not connected with the gong. It was USAF's turn. He asked me what to do. I told him to turn the dial on his scope until it said 500. He did. He laid on the ground, held directly on the gong, and proceeded to smack it 5 out of 5 times. 30-06 was most impressed, and asked if he could shoot USAF's rifle. He also connected with gong 3 out of 3. The guy attempting to do the holdover thing saw the error in his ways, bought a new scope with turrets on it, and has been doing well out to 600 yards. He shot a deer this year at 300 yards, through the throat. Exactly where he was aiming. 30-06 has given this much thought, and decided that he also would like a Scopechief with a BDC in it, as it best fits his price range. Take from this long winded diatribe what you will, but I do have a point. If you keep your starting distances reasonable, show respect for the wind, have the right (not the most expensive) equipment, practice, and not be afraid to try something new, it can be relatively easy and uncomplicated to be effective to 500 yards. These were your average, I shoot when I hunt, guys. They maybe fire a box of shells total between all three of them in a year. It's not magic.

R.

Rman - While I originally selected the Burris FFII scopes due to the simplicity (not having to turn turrets) I am intrigued by the concept of trying a turret scope as well. May have to put one on a target rifle build if I can ever get to that one. Don't need it on the 9.3x62 that I'm doing next but would like to do a heavier range rig and may have to go there. I'm sure it would be revealing. Thanks.

Turrets offer flexibility, and precision, that you will never get from a crosshair. Trust me. I have several Leupy B&C scopes that now wear turrets. There is nothing simpler, and less confusing, that turning a turret to a predetrmined location, aiming at exactly what you want to hit, and pulling the trigger.

R.

I don't doubt that - it does make sense. The reason I didn't go sooner was primarily speed (for hunting purposes) but often at some distance you probably have a bit more time and the precision is likely worth it. Thanks.

MY $.02 which will piss off a lot of would be snipers, so be warned.

MM has the answer:"The degree of difficulty definitley increases exponentially with distance. "

There is not one average hunter in 100 who can put EVERY first shot in a 12" pie plate at ranges past 300 yards in REAL WORLD field conditions from improvised rests, wind, mirage AND animals are apt to move too. Too many try because they believe all the crap about sooper magnums and three pound scopes.

Long range big game hunting is long range target shooting using live targets. It has little to do with hunting as we old geezers were taught it. Only a geezer who grew up hunting deer with a 30-30, 12 bore shotgun with smoothbore slugs or a bowhunter really "gets" hunting.

When you can smell em or see their eyelashes, you are hunting. The rest is trying to substitute technology for ability.

I'll give you a pass on Antelope but 2/3rds of the bucks on my wall COULD have been killed with my rifled slug 870.

My buddy with his 09' buck at 130 yards. Note the "long range Savage 99 in 300 with a 2-7 loopie. 130 TSX at 2800, DOA.

It's funny you should mention that, as I wrote above, I found THREE average hunters that put multiple shots in a group you could easily cover with a pie plate at 500 YARDS!

Again, you should really take your medicine and FO, as you and "your buddy" ARE THE SAME GUY!

Nice blinker BTW.

R.

It doesn't piss me off that you think the way you do it is your oppinion and everybody is entitled to one.

My 2 cents and this will probably piss you off.

I shot my elk this year at 1031 yards and 2 years ago I shot my elk at 20 yards with a bow. Trust me I get hunting the way you were taught. You see that is the difference between you and me I understand how to get close and close the deal as well as reach out and touch them. You get close but don't understand the other side of the equation which is why you critisize us. I and many other LRH have shot deer inside the ranges you think are acceptable so don't go thinking you have a monopoly on shooting an animal within 100 yards it has been done before.

And if you want to come up I can put as many shots into a 12" pie plate as you need to see to believe it can be done at 300 yards.

Any distance that requires holdover.

JW

As to the original question on this thread, I agree with JW. Any distance that requires holdover.

R.

I"ve said it before and I"ll say it again... evidently I must hang with many more above average folks than most hang around. ....