Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Another Berger VLD failure !

7mm08, 140 VLD, 42 gr Rel-15

First elk- 200 yards, one in heart, two in shoulders, all made it inside.

Second elk- 100 yards, same as above.

Cow elk shoulder doesnt stop them at all. The inside destruction is impressive. None made it out the other side but all resulted in dead critters with no tracking. What more can you ask for?

Oh... as JB mentioned, I was able to save a bunch of shoulder meat as it wasnt destroyed like those you would see shot with the accubomb.

MontanaMan,

Any of those 3 would work fine.

Both elk took 3 bullets to bring them down?

All of these "Bullet Failure" threads have one thing in common an that is that all of he "failed bullets" were recovered from dead animals. I always thought that the object of a bullet fired at an animal was to kill it, so how did it fail? I guess it failed to look like the bullet in the adds

Actually, some recovered bullets do look like the ads............the old fashioned Partitions, for example.

Haven't recovered many of them, but the recovered ones pretty much all look the same.

Some examples.............

MM

Sounds fabulous! What happened?

i've seen elk killed with everythig from 52 grain hollowpoints to WW1 surplus FMJ '06 ammo, and i do not call a dead elk an automatic bullet success. i want to be able to anchor the elk on the spot if i have to, and that shortens the list a bunch. if an elk makes it over a property line or into a river, over a cliff, ect... it can really complicate recovery.

Shot placement is the key to the "dropped in thier tracks" kill.

How can an animal brought to harvesst be a failure?

Was the animal any deader? Than the one this bullet was recovered from?




Not a classic mushroom, but it was recovered from a dad animal

both shot placement and bullet performance are required for an anchor on the spot. your options are a CNS shot or breaking big bones the animal needs to move from that spot.

if the animal suffers needlessly or if it makes it to an area that makes recovery much more difficult, bullet and/or shooter failed.

i am not making a statement for or against the VLD, just bullets in general.

I shot a mature Whitetail 8 pt at 50 yards quartering away fom me with a 6.5-284. I placed the shot behind his right shoulder and the bullet picked him up and dropped him on the entry hole. He never so much as kicked or twitched or flicked an ear. I guess that was a bullet failure. There was zero ,I repeat zero blood. The whole interior of the chest was mush and I didn't have to do any tracking. I got cheated ,I guess. I found the same type performance in my 6.5-06 and 6.5x55's on many occasions. I'm convinced after hunting 60 years that its all in the placement of the bullet,and the will to live by an animal, cause some Bucks tote more lead than others do.:):)The 140 VLD is awesome.

JB, maybe you posted the info already, but what cartridge did you shoot the pronghorn/deer with wile using the VLD's? Cause your description of minimal meat damage isnt what I've had while using them. of course I was shooting a 30-378 and 300 WBY, with 190 VLD's...graphic!

I have a good load for my 7mm WBY and 168 VLD I hope tho give some field time to next year, hoping for results like yours.

I wont jump on any band wagon as far as the "bullet failure" crowd, cuz my favorite bullets, the Barnes MRX and TTSX are consistently bashed, and I've seen nothing but wonderful performance out of them.

You are spot on

rosco1,

I was shooting a 6.5-06 with a 26" barrel, muzzle velocity 2950 or so with the 140 VLD.

Yeah, I would expect some meat damage to a deer with the cartridges you are using and a 190 VLD. We much prefer the 115 .25 in any cartridge from the .257 Roberts up, and the 140 6.5 or .270. With careful shot placement meat damage is minimal, and they still kill really well.

In fact in New Zealand I saw a 400-pound red stag killed VERY quickly with a liver shot from the 115 at about 200 yards, cartridge the .257 Roberts. When I saw the bullet hit a little too far back I though uh-oh, and was about to put a shot into the stag with my .30-06. But the stag only staggered about 15 feet and keeled over dead. The liver was mush, as well as the rear of both lungs.

MontanaMan,

Yeah, we have quite a few recovered Partitions in our collection, ranging from 100-grain .25's to 400-grain .416's.

I am alays amazed at the people who complain that Partitions don't retain enough weight. The least percentage of weight retention from any of our recovered bullets is 55%--and that's a 150-grain .270 Winchester that killed a bull moose faster than any other moose I've seen killed. It entered the rear of the rib cage on a quartering-away shot and was found in the far shoulder. The moose took a step-and-a-half and folded up dead! Another clear case of bullet failure, because no bullet that loses 45% of its weight can kill very well, at least according to some theorists.

At least 60% weight retention of recovered bullets or Exit wounds!

Three mule deer in the past two years, two bucks and a doe. All one-shot drops. Spined the first buck, so I had to send a second into his chest to kill him. All with the 115 gr VLD from my .25-06 Rem 700. Ranges from 175 - 400 yards. Wound descriptions pretty much as described by Mule Deer/John Barsness. Small entry, violent expansion in the chest cavity, and not much of an exit. Recovered bullet doesn't amount to much, but the deer dropping in place are nice, particularly in steep country.


My teenage son with my small buck this season, 175 yards through the shoulder blade:


400 yard shot on the doe - held on hair, hit low in chest, destroyed the heart and lungs.



Primarily a mule deer hunter & varmint/predator blaster, I decided to try the VLD's after reading good stuff about them from a couple of writers, including JB. Also a couple of my long-range shooting buddies had tried them on game and were happy with the performance. The 115 VLD offeres a nice high BC, and did good things for my .25-06 when loaded over Retumbo. At this point, I'm pretty pleased with the VLD's for deer hunting. Yes, they go right through the shoulder blade of a mulie.

Regards, Guy

Oh, and they expand well on game as small as a coyote too! There was a huge, gaping hole on the other side. This hide was NOT a keeper!

No, of course not...........dead is dead.

But.........when you see less than stellar performance from a given bullet on the ones recovered, I think it begins to put doubt into ones mind as to how really consistent that particular bullet will be over numerous cases of it's use.

The reason (you may have well missed it) that I put up the 2 examples that I did of the Partitions, is that in one case the shot(s) were close - 80 yards, & in the 2nd case, the shot was long - 480 yards, but in both cases, the bullet performance is virtually the same...........perfect.

And the good part about it is, I've never seen anything but similar performance from Partitions, tho I'm sure there are "failures" recorded by someone somewhere.

I do also agree with you that shot placement is of prime importance, regardless of the bullet used.

Good luck to you with whatever you chose to use.........I do like & use TSX/TTSX as well.

MM