Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Which bullet?

On some offered advice, and combing through my Speer manual, I have decided on 2400 powder for loading up some rounds for my 6" Model 19. My home defense loads will be mild loads of 2400 with a good hollow point, but for backpacking and black bear protection what bullet would you recommend? A hard cast, or something else. Doesn't Nosler make a partition in .358?

Reading around the net it seems there is something to know about loading cast bullets, should the charge be reduced from the max the manual has listed?

Thank you

I like hard cast bullets, but not from a .357. Here's why: hard cast bullets depend on their meplat (the flat portion of the nose) to cut a wound channel and impart shock. The bigger the diameter of the meplat, the more wallop the target receives. With 44's and 45's there is already enough frontal area to impart shock and cut a good, wide wound channel.

Not so with the .357. For your application I would recommend Hornady's 180gr XTP at book maximum with 2400 or H110/Win 296. I have shot these from my 357 Maximum and my 357 Magnums and they expand reliably and penetrate well in wet newspaper. I firmly believe with a .357 that you need expansion just as much as penetration.

Also, black bear are not particularly heavy animals, and a .357 hard cast could plow right through leaving pencil hole entrance and exit wounds. An expanding .357 won't do that. I'll take a .45 exit hole, I'm less comfortable with a .357 hole. Again, this is just my bias but I do think it is well reasoned. The Hornady 180 XTP is my bullet of choice for hunting with the 357 magnum; their 158gr XTP is very good as well, but a bit light for larger game.

One final note: for protection, consider how the bullet would perform if you had to shoot the animal as it is laying on top of you. Complete penetration might not be the best option at that point; tissue destruction and shock, both features of an expanding bullet, take on a premium as your left arm is being chewed. Remember, if you are right handed, feed the bear your left arm. That way you can shoot with your right Grim stuff, but it bears thinking about (pun intended )

Check out a Lyman manual (a #47 or #48 - I don't have a #49). Lyman breaks their loads into catagories - one for Lead and one for Jacketed. I know Hornady does that too, Speer probably as well. Lead bullets driven to max velocity without a gascheck will lead the crap out of your bore in quick time. Most lead bullet loads are in the mild to medium range. I consider mild to be in the 800 fps range, medium (my favorite all around) to be in the 1100 fps range, and hot to be in the 1250 and up range. I use the same three catagories for .357 MAG, .41 MAG, .44 MAG, and 45 Colt. I also use lead RNFP bullets for mild loads, lead SWC bullets for medium loads, and lead gas checked WFN bullets for hot loads - I do this for my own visual separation of loads. A jacketed bulleted can be loaded at any speed that is safe for the cartridge in question. Check out Bear Tooth bullets (they have a good forum) for exceptional info on loading lead bullets and/or buy one of John Taffins books.

OK, I'm going to have to up my greenhorn game. I hear "gas checked" a lot, how exactly does a gas checked bullet differ?

A gas check is a copper cup that fits on the bottom of a cast bullet and prevents the hot gas from the powder from melting the lead. They are used for high velocity loads, and are often found on premium cast bullets from Cast Performance and others.

My rule of thumb is to use a gas check for velocities above 1200fps in the 44 and the 45 and above 1000fps in the 357 to avoid leading.

Thank you.

The 160 grain WFNPB,..available here:

http://www.castperformance.com/Detail.bok?no=4

Also, I like 2400 for magnum loads also, but it's un-necessary unless you're looking to twist a load up to maximum.

For the hard cast WFNPB in a .357 I've found that 6.5 grains of Unique gives very good accuracy. It's not a full power .357, but it's a fairly good jump up from even a +P .38 special.

Out of a 6" barrel it'll be clocking somewhere close to 1050 fps. Maybe even a little bit more.

Are you shooting a .357 S&W or a .358 Winchester?!

Depends on what you want. I'd much rather have plenty of penetration, especially in a self defense situation vs. a bear.
Expanding bullets, like Hornady's XTP in, say, the 158 gr. weight would be my choice for deer hunting. That's fine if you want sdomething to bleed out faster. But in a self defense situation, you should be shooting for the head anyway.
To deal with a bear and to do it w/ a .357, I'll take Hornady's swagged 158 gr. SWC. Cheap, very accurate and my 3 inch, M60 won't push them fast enough to require the more expensive gas checks on them. That way I'll practice with it alot, including steel, so I shoot it well and quickly if I need to.
Either will work, I'm sure. My choice is the the above 158 gr. SWC swagged bullets.
BTW, I used to load them with 6.5 grs. of Unique. Clocks about 925 fps. out of my 3 inch. Too slow for me. Now I use 9.3 grs. of Ramshot True Blue. Much more powerful load at both ends ! E

I know that they work very well. We see them used (45 and 50 cal.)in slug loads and a friend uses them in his 357.
Have shot one deer with the 300gr./45 from 45 Colt.

http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/supreme/partition-gold/Pages/default.aspx

But .358?

Depends on mfg.'er. what they are called, but most 357's use 357-358 bullets, exactly like the 35 Whelen, 358 Winchester.

http://www.hornady.com/store/.358-38-CAL/

FWIW most Hornady bullets do measure .358, Nosler, Speer and Sierras are .357-.3575.....
XTP's and the like do not.

Not wanting to start a big argument...

I notice that all of Hornady's .358s on your link are lead, except for the jacketed one listed for single shot pistols.
Their jacketed bullets are on a .357 page.

I notice, though, in Nosler's manual, that the 180-gr bullet for the .358 Win is called a Partition-HG, as is the 180 for the .357 Mag. If 'HG' stands for 'handgun', then perhaps it is the same bullet. I see no note to that effect-- tsk, tsk.
And we are talking 1/1000. I don't know what effect that makes on pressure. (And I won't try to learn experimentally. )

Most probably my rookie mistake, but I thought as a 30-06 shoots a .308 bullet, I thought .38 and .357's shot .358 bullets.

Specs are for .357-inch. (Evidently, exceptions may exist.)

Your manuals should show 'true' diameters for each cartridge.
And never make assumptions based on caliber or cartridge names.

Just wondering, hand loading for handguns do you generally seat to get as close to the forcing cone as you can, keeping the bullet from protruding out of the cylinders if the bullet has more than one cannelure, or is seating depth not as important with handguns?

For general revolver reloading, at least-

Ignore the jump to throat.
Few bullets have more than one crimping cannelure. Other grooves on lead bullets are usually for lube.
Just in case bullets begin shifting forward, as can happen in hard-recoiling guns, especially in chamber #6 (with the accumulated recoil from four or five other chambers), I'm glad to have a little extra space at the front of the cylinder. I've seen several guns locked up by a bullet jammed against the rear of the barrel. It ruins a shooting session!

Seat to the crimp or OAL of your specified data and component recipe using the bullet you choose.

Some Hornady and Speer bullets have two cannelures; seat the bullet farther out per their instructions in revolvers. If they do not seat out, a reduction in charge is in order, also upon their instructions.

Yes, the 180 .357 PT Gold HG is a handgun bullet, as can be the 200 gr Hornady SP (prolly not in a 357 wheelie )

Mac is correct, and I linked to the wrong page. Most of those jacketed bullets run .357-5.

However, sometimes a .357 barrel can measure as small as .355-6, a 44 Mag can have a tube of .427 and 45 Colt/Casull can be .450. Sometimes the throats AND barrel groove can be smaller than the bullet.

Yes, there will be pressure differences that data cannot account for, so work up. Basically, within certain parameters, working up a load IS an experiment, even when you have data for it, because its not from your gun.

I like casting my own, some with dual crimps and in some cases lube grooves make a fine crimp groove; and yes, I like to seat out as far out as I can.

Getting started though I would pick your bullet and find some published loads, follow their instructions, work up and have fun!

OK, now I'm getting confused. When you go to the Midway site and navigate to the Reloading-bullets-38/357 path you come to a page listing bullets for the .38 and .357, half of them say 358 dia, the others say 357..so are they all a thumbs up for .38 and .357 revolvers?

.38-.357

They're all good.

.001" is about half the diameter of a hair on your arm.