Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Dangerous Game Rifles for Professional Hunters in Africa?

I'm not planning a trip to Africa nor do I intend to hunt any dangerous game but I'm kinda interested in something...

When it comes to bolt actions, most professional hunters and guides who may face animals that can kill them reportedly prefer to use a controlled-feed action. One internet source says that CZ, Winchester, and sometimes even Ruger bolt actions are used as the foundation for working, professional hunter rifles. Does anyone here have personal knowledge of the manufacturers and action types that professional hunter's in Africa use? Can you post links or pics?

See also: Rifles for Africa

I'm not talking about the rifles that rich guys from the U.S. buy for their safaris. I'm talking about the guys who guide for a living and who do it year after year. What are those guys carrying?

Look at Gregor Woods' book RIFLES IN AFRICA. It discusses this very topic. I recall that the CZ/BRNO get the nod, with Sako's on the list too. I recall the knock against the Ruger was the small-esh safety.

When I was in the Biz and spending lots of time in Zimbabwe I saw Lots of Commercial and converted military 98 Mausers in 375 H&H, 458 Lott and 458 Win. For beginning and broke PH's as well as Gov't game scouts in Zim there are lots of older push feed model 70's in 458 Win purchased by the government long ago and still in service but these PH's will typically trade themselves into a Controlled round feed rifle in 458 Lott as soon as they can. CZ and BRNO (Same rifle) are well represented as are Winchester CRF's which are one of the favorites. One will see more 375's than the gun rags would have us believe.

I would be surprised if the PH's in other countries with good numbers of Elephant and Buff were much different excepting that in the areas where the hunt costs are much higher one might see more SxS double rifles than I saw in Zim.

Pretty similar - action preference wise- to what I see in Big bear country in Alaska but more 375's and fewer 458's up there and lots fewer CZ's since they have not always been a popular import or available in the large numbers that Winchester etc. have been.

+1 on the Ruger small and too far rearward saftey issue. Never seen one yet in the hands of a PH, nor a model 700 for a myriad of good reasons.

Only one I can comment on is the PH I hunted with. His backup is a Model 70 in .416 Rem Mag. I don't know if it's push feed or CRF. I imagine CRF. He also has as a 375 H&H but that's mainly the gun he rents to clients.

My PH in Zim was left-handed,he had a converter LH Winchester in .458 Lott.

I've only got 4 safaris to base this on, but these are the observations.
Fully half of the PHs I've met carried a .375.(CZs and old Winchesters) Of the other half, many of them had a .458 Lott, usually in a CZ or Brno. .416s made a weaker showing with Rigby leading, and a single Rem Mag and one Weatherby. One who didn't yet have his DG ticket had a .425 Westley Richards. I sent him a set of dies after I got home since the SA price was rediculous. One had a .458 Win.
If there is a unifying theme to this unscientific survey, its that many chose their caliber by the likelyhood of the clients keeping them in free ammo. Those that didn't have a Lott or .375 often got the rifle as a gift to help them get started. Exactly none owned a double rifle, many owned a Remington as a light rifle.

Mine is a Win Model 70 and every PH I know used a CRF except for a single guy that used a Sako. He used that Sako 375HH for everything and was the most experienced PH I have ever met on lion hunting. He worked about 25 lion hunts at that time and probably has doubled that number by now. He also did several hundred DG hunts for all the other big 6. Still using that thread bare old Sako and making a living on DG hunts.

Without a doubt the "status" of a Model 70 CRF with most PH's is well known. The majority have a CZ or BRNO but just about all I know aspire to one day have a model 70. It's somewhat interesting to also mention that far and away the majority use the 375HH not a big bore. This goes for DG as well as PG. Some have a 458 or a 458 lott 500 jeffry etc. But the vast majority I have worked with pack a 375HH.

The CRF/PF debate has been going on for years and will probably never be put to bed.....

I'm left handed and have used a LH Weatherby (pushfeed) rifle for over 20 years, which is most of my professional hunting career.

The rifle started life as a 416 Wea and I had it rebuilt to 500 Jeffery.

In all the years I've had it, I've never had a single problem and never wished it to be CRF.

I'd say there's several far more important criteria for a dangerous game rifle than whether it's CRF or PF, such as short barrel, fast handling, well balanced and good quality open sights.

Carrying rifles for PH's I know:
500NE WR dr
500NE Kreighoff dr
470NE Kreighoff dr
465NE H&H dr
450NE 3 1/4" Heym dr
459NE 3 1/4" ? dr
450 Ackley on Brno
458 Lott on Mod 70 crf
458 Lott on LH Mod 70 crf
458 Lott on SA Sabi action crf
458wm on Mod 70 crf
458wm on Mod 70 crf
458wm on Mod 70 crf
458wm on Mod 70 pf
416R on Mod 70 crf
416 Rigby Mod 77 crf
416 Rigby on Sabi action crf

I know that all of the PH's who carry or carried doubles started out with bolt rifles, most a 458wm or a 458 of one sort or another. Most still have them as well. Some of those with 458's of one sort or another traded up from 375H&H's.

Only one traded down, from a 458wm to a 416R, and then only because he shot out his 458wm barrel and was saving $'s to have it rebarreled.

All of the PH's listed hunt elephants, some occasionally, some very frequently.

JPK

Read Craig Boddington's book, Safari Rifles II. In it he has a poll of African PH's and the rifles they use.
Very interesting and informative.

Do most PH's use their DG rifles as they come or do they tend to make some modifications?

If they get themselves a nice CRF 458 Lott they will use it as is. Same same with a good quality double gun. The gunsmiths in Zim do a fair bit of business converting 458 Win's to the Lott round. Yes, with handloads a 458 Win can do what it was supposed to do and modern ammo is much better than the stuff that was available a couple of decades ago but its reputation has already been tarnished and old ideas die hard in the PH world. Also, most PH's have to rely on factory ammo and 458 Lott Factory loads are nearly always good stuff. Also, 458 Win ammo can still be used in a Lott chambered rifle. A win win where ammo can be problematic to get. Good open sights (Some like peeps, some like express sights) will be added if the rifle did not come so equipped. CZ's do have terrific express sights as they come from Momma.

I had my 500 custom built to my own specification and measurements but most will start with a factory rifle and then often have alterations such as barrel shortening done.... although it's now becoming more popular to have custom rifles built from scratch.

I'll have to disagree with Mark about ammo though. I know an awful lot of PHs and all but a handful load their own.

good in fo in the links. All hunters planning an African hunt should read them.

I am a control feed person, I have seen some funny things happen with push feeds so I don't use them anymore, but I know several PHs that do, for whatever that means..Most PHs I know reload ammo. Most PHs have a lot of factory ammo and handloaded ammo around camp that hunters leave for them, a nice jester as they cannot jump in the car and go to town to pick up a box of ammo. If someone loses their ammo on the plane then there is a good chance the PH will have some on hand..

I know a lot of PHs that are outstanding hunters that can't shoot particularly well and don't know squat about guns. I know PHs that are not very good hunters in fact and I know some PHs that are both great hunters and know a lot about firearms, hell I know trackers in Africa that can't track for squat and I know others that can track a lizzard by the tracks his shadow leaves on rocks! ..Kinda like any other vocation in the world huh!

My suggestion is use them both and then make up your own mind. The best way to to learn is by experience, also the hard way so it leaves you with a written in stone opinion..I qualify for being opinnionated I have been told..so be it, I am still a sweet lovable old fellow! my dog told me so.

Thanks to all who have replied. This is all purely academic since I'm just a middle class American who will never have the means to hunt in Africa. The most dangerous thing I may encounter will be feral hogs, black bear, or mountain lions. For some reason unknown even to me, I suddenly became very interested in the choices of "working" bolt actions for PH's.

FWIW, I'm already a big fan of Mausers, having owned a few military versions. I'm especially a fan of CZ and sorely wish I had kept my 550 American. I currently have a CZ 527 FS in .223 which I like very much. I am seriously considering some kind of Battue such as THIS or THIS or possibly another FS/Mannlicher in .308 Win for deer and hogs despite the fact that I have rifles already adequate to that need. Buying guns can turn into a sickness for which there is no known cure. I'm afflicted.

From Shakari, "I'll have to disagree with Mark about ammo though. I know an awful lot of PHs and all but a handful load their own."

This mirrors what I have found. In fact, other than one appy, I cannot recall an appy or PH who did not roll their own, or have a good friend do it for them as they helped.

JPK

My comments were related to Zimbabwe, as stated, and there it is illegal to handload or own reloading equipment. Some may do so, but at risk and so it is much less common there.

Where legal, and especially where getting factory ammo could be a problem it would sure be a good idea to roll your own.

In South Africa with the PH's and over the years I was in Zim I knew exactly two PH's besides me that reloaded. In other words including me I Knew three. There was a older German gunsmith in Pretoria that loaded ammo for dozens of PH's including most of those I know or worked with. Whenever needed we would make a trip to pick up or drop of hunters at the airport we would swing by and fetch the ammo in Pretoria. Even if we did not go fetch them the driver would stop and get it for us. Until the rules changed and it required a possession permit to get it from the shop.

This reloader seemed to have a pretty good business loading custom ammo for lots of PH's. He also did a fair amount of gunsmith work too.