Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 45 Colt vs. 44 Mag - splain

Probably have not owned as many .44's in my life as you have right now, but have experience with a couple dozen at least since 1972, in DA, SA and Single shot, plus at least a dozen .45 Colts.

I've noticed the same thing, the .44's are generally pretty accurate but the .45's can be all over the place. Definitely agree that is more to do with chamber tolerances than any "inherent accuracy" of the rounds. Also, in Ruger SA'sa at least, the thinner barrel of the .45 seems to suffer more from constriction at the frame. Couldn't quantify that, but have measured all my revolvers for this in the last 10-15 years and that is my general impression.

Anyway, I'm at that same stage in handgunning that match the rifle stage where guys who used to shoot .300 Win's now just use a .308. Have loaded 7 1/2" SBH to over 1500 fps and 300 grain .45 bullets close to 1200 in a 4 5/8" barrel and the two rounds have one thing in common - the dang things kick when you load them up hot. Since the .44 does need more pressure to get a same weight bulelt to the same speed, the concussion of hot .44 loads was always nastier than any .45.

When Elmer was lobbying for a hot .44 all he wanted was his 429421 at 1200 fps, he figured that would kill any animal he was likely to point it at.

Bottom line, I'm liking my .44 Special Flat Top about as much as anything I ever owned. A 429421 or commercial 240 cast at 900-950 fps is real easy shooting. Even at 1150 fps it isn't too hard to deal with. A .45 Colt with that RCBS 270 SAA at the same speed in a Bisley 5 1/2" is real easy too.

Don't let me stop you guys from having fun with your hot loads, but I'll just keep driving in the slow lane and getting there with a bit less fuss.

308 or 06? I haven't found a 45 yet that has compatible chamber and throat measurements. I have read that it is common to have to modify the cylinders. Every 44 I have had has been good to go. Wish mfg. would settle down on specs. Is that so hard? The old Keith 44 bullet does everything....never understood the heavy bullet concept.
Bill

It depends a lot on how you look at things. In the same model gun, a 45 will be lighter because bigger holes mean less steel. That's an advantage when you're toting the thing.

But less steel also means less strength, so 45 loads MUST be loaded to lower pressures. That doesn't mean lower performance, necessarily; it is simply a consideration. But less steel does provide a bit less margin for the occasional "funny" load result. That's a disadvantage if you use powders or loads at the top end.

When I look at this current race for more powerful handgun rounds, I merely shake my head in amusement. At open-sight ranges, that old 255 at 900 45 Colt load will do all that might be asked of it. I've never heard anybody with genuine experience say it isn't enough.

The pressures I quoted are Hodgon figures. I load to Hodgon load data. Here's a copy and paste but I added the bold color to make it easier to read.
45 Colt
360 GR. CPB LFN GC H110 .452" 1.680" 18.0 1012 20,200 CUP 21.0 1151 28,300 CUP
If you look at the Hodgon data for the 44mag you will see all loads 300gr and up that are 1100-1300fps are at 37-39000 CUP. That's a substantial difference.

Also Linebaugh and the boys have pressure data. As far as my guns, I do what any other handloader does. Look for sticky cases, cratered primers etc. My 360gr load is fine in my 4" Redhawk. The min load (18gr H110) is about 950fps 6inch plus group if I remember right. As I went up to max (21gr) my group tightened up to about 3 inches at 25yds 6rnds which is the best I can shoot with my eyes and open sites. No need to go over max. I was hoping to get at least 1000fps with a 350-360gr bullet. I use Starline brass and CCI mag primers with a nice tight crimp to get good ignition with the H110. The 45 Colt shines with heavy for caliber boolits.

This is for bear protection here in Alaska where we have many Big Brown fuzzies, and if possible a shot at a moose while rifle hunting. I'm not interested in pushing a 250gr bullet to 1400+fps, I'd rather have 360gr at 1100. I don't care about trajectory at 100yds or hollowpoint/high velocity expansion. I want bone breaking penetration with heavy hard cast at any angle. 360gr at 1155fps at "OH $Hi1" handgun range will go clean through most critters. Plus, with the .452 and a large metplat it makes a bigger hole. All this at LESS pressure and recoil than a comparable 44mag load. IMHO the modern 45 Colt loads are a better choice than the 44mag in this regard. For my plnkin I shoot 255gr rnfp with 8.5 gr Unique. Or, I just worked up an accurate load using a 200gr SWC with 8 gr Unique. Plus I can shoot all my 45 Colt loads in my 454 Puma levergun.

I just picked up a SBH Bisley Hunter in a 45 Colt but have not shot these (or any) loads in it yet. Can't wait to see what the 360gr load does. I'll use it for Black bear this spring hopefully Moose next fall.

Someone here mentioned a 500 smith. I do not want the bulk of a S&W 460 or a 500 revolver or even a 454 Super Redhawk. Maybe someday a FA or BFR .475 Linebaugh The 4" Redhawk in a Simply Rugged Pancake holster is a very nice carrying rig. It's always on my hip and I can carry it all day.

I'll stick with 350-360gr .452 at 1100-1300 fps. It'll do just fine. Here are a few pics just for fun...

Here is a 300gr .429 next to a 335gr .452 CastPerfomance



350gr .452 LBT custom mould 80% metplat I am working with, I call it the Hammer, should hit like one. Next to the .452 360gr Cast Performance boolit.

I can read pressure figures from my own Hodgdon Manual. I just thought maybe you had some way you were measuring them yourself.

Brian Pearce is only going to cover the same ground Elmer covered before either he or I were born. There have been new developments in the .45 Colt, but unless he is using new powders, you're only shooting different bullets with the same stuff I was using twenty years ago.

On the Special, once Elmer had the Magnum he quit the older cartridge and never looked back. The Special is good for paper and jackrabbits. No need to push it when you have a longer and better cartridge. The same can be said of the .454 Casull and .45 Colt. I don't have need of a Casull though. The .44 Mag. suits my purposes.

Ya, I know what you mean about the Casull. I just can't see running that high of pressure in a handgun. If I had one I'd get as big a boolit as I could fit in the cylinder, say a 400gr and load it down to about 1100-1200 I think. I have some max 335gr 454 loads I shoot in the 454 levergun and man, you know it when you touch those things off! 1950fps out the the 20inch barreled puma. I use that one to stand guard over the wifey in the blueberry patch

It's nice to have choices that's for sure. And it all depends on what a guy is doing. I see you are in Kansas, and I'm up here in Alaska. You're needs/desires are bound to be totally different than mine. And then of course there are guys who want to shoot one hole groups at 100yds with thier 44's. I have a hard enough time doing that with my rifles!

I haven't gotten so deep into this as to where I have my own pressure testing equipment. It would be kind of fun though.

I have the 454 too, and let me tell you this... I shoot my 45colts often. I shoot the 454 to keep in tune.. Just enough to not start getting flinchy... And back to the colts...
Would like to stumble on a Puma in 454, one day...

In guns of similar strength, they have similar performance levels. 300-330 gr @ 1200-1300 fps. Some prefer a .451" projectile, some prefer a .429" projectile.

Now, if you really want to jump up in performance, that same 21-22gr charge of H-110 in your 44 mag or 45 colt, will drive a 400 gr bullet 1200 fps in a .480.

Push a good cast bullet around 900 to 1000 fps and either the 44 mag or 45 LC will cover most anything you want to hunt .

The 45 Colt is higher on the food chain thain is the .429 mag IME

Argue what you want Snyd. Loading the .45 Colt at 28,000 cup is well over the level that responsible folks like Speer and Sierra recommend in only the strongest revolvers. Which is between 20,000 and 25,000 cup. And far beyond the 14,000 cup for many .45 Colt revolvers.
The .44 Mag's level was originally 40,000 cup and is now 36,000 cup. Not much of a difference and very close to what all .44 Mags are designed to handle.
The other argument about a wider bullet is off set by the increased sectional density of the smaller diameter bullets. Frankly, I know of no one who has proven or even demonstrated that the 300 gr. bullets in either offers anything practical to the handguner.
Last of all, your so called pressure signs simply won't show up in a handgun as you think they will much of the time. That's why the old timers don't recomend anything but those loads using exactly the same components as tested and pressure tested in proper pressure barrels. E

The SD arguement is lame and the Ruger 45 Colts can and do fire 30,000 Cup loads afely. This has been very throughly covered in print many times.
As a matter of fact Buffalo Bore factory loads bear this out with 325 grain LFN hard cast at 1350 FPS in 45 Colt

I have had all three of my .45 Colt handguns looked over by my gunsmith. The S&W Model 25 is fine with regards to the cylinder dimensions, but both of my Ruger Black Hawks had to be 'adjusted'. Pretty inexpensive, so it makes the argument about poor accuracy due to incorrect dimensions academic.

I hand load all my rounds for my .45 Colt revolvers, and for my .44 Mag revolvers.
I have never found that max loads delivered any benefit over 'stout' loads.

Absolutely! Very old news. The loads in manuals like Speer (some editions anyway) depend on who wrote up the cartridge. Guys like Venturino are traditional and adhere to traditional Colt loads of a 255-gr at 900 fps which is fine but it's not the whole story; An "older" Speer manual-not that old-still touts the old line that Colt brass in inherently weak. IOW, the manuals are not always that complete in their info or even always correct.

Feel the same way as you and JOG, and Cole, too. My arthritis doctor told me to lay off the boomers for a couple years until my wrists healed up. Never felt the need to play with the bigger stuff any longer.
I used to shoot a LOT, playing IPSC stuff and just playing around, period, and beat the hell out of my wrists and hands. Nowadays, I limit out at about 10.0 Unique/255 Keith (955 out of a 4 5/8" Blackhawk) out of the .45 Colt or something similar out of a .44 Special/Magnum, and it still kills stuff real well. No big bears here, of course.

My RRH Colt also went to the 'smith for tuning (incl throat) and is more accurate than I'm capable of.

Oh,, you guys are to much... Well If you ask me, and no body did,,, the 41 mag is better than the 44, or wait, 429, any day of the week...

The 45 colt is really more than both, it can be pushed to max (published loads) or a simple little plinker for the traditionalist...

No matter what, it is a great old/modern cartridge.

The 45 Colt brass is weak if one is useing the old balck powder balloon head cases, since the balloon head casses have not been produced for several decades it is no longer a true statement

That's is my point exactly.

Really not arguing. It's not matter of right or wrong. All I have said is known fact and physics regarding the 45 Colt. A bigger case, larger caliber in modern brass and modern guns changes the 45 Colt. You can push a larger bullet at lower pressure. Just like the guy mentioned about the 480 or the ".475 Linebaugh Special". As far as safety goes....that's why there are published "Ruger Only" loads. And that does NOT include new model vaquero's.