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Thank you for posting this. I thought you were refering to the TBBC soft point. Since I've had excellent performance with them, I was surprised to see your comments.
I'll keep in mind that this is regards to the solid version of them. E

I'm not a great fan of the soft either I'm afraid. I haven't seen the softs fail as often as the solids but I have seen more than a few fail.

I think both are overpriced and I would guess have poor quality control rather than a particularly bad design..... which would explain why some fail and some don't.

Would add a small experience on 2 Cape buffalo with Swift AF 400 grain .423" SPs - MV ~2300. One shot on a wounded going-away bull at 200 yards into the spine immediately below the tail that dropped him, bullet not recovered. The other 2 frontal chest shots at ~65 yards on another bull. Spun in place after the first (through the heart) immediate follow up shot just to the right of centerline dropped him right there. Neither AF SP recovered, but both traveled straightline through the chest completely and into the belly. The bullet on the right went through the liver. Small sample but they seem to work.

Hadn't heard that about the soft points.
I'm sort of interested in them as the tactical/police shooters have found they stay on course through angled window glass better than any other factory load. Probably because their weight is concentrated in the nose. Might be helpful to a guy that hits brush from time to time in spite of all efforts to avoid that.
I really agree on the cost. Particularly as components.
The other thing I don't like about them is their accuracy in factory ammo. I've got a .308 sporter that won't shoot any better tahn 2 1/4-2 1/2 inches at 100 yds with them. The same rifle shoots almost anything under half that and half of my loads into under an inch. The same is true, i understand with the tactical style rifles. Double the group sizes.
Again, thanks for your time. E

This past year a hunter used a 375HH with 270 swift Aframes to shoot a Kudu bull. It was quartering away and not all that far, maybe 75 yards.

At the shot the bull's hind quarters dropped but his front legs were still up. I instantly assumed a spine hit. But before that thought was complete the bull was up and gone!

When we went to the site along the way, one of the trackers told me he saw a branch fall at the shot. We went to take a look and saw that it was about the diameter of a pencil clearly broken from the bullet, and dangling by the connective bark.

We followed and tracked that bull for a long time and eventually caught up and finished him off. The first bullet that hit the branch left a hole in the hind quarter exactly the size and oddly enough almost the exact shape of the bullet that hit sideways.

There are a lot of variables in this whole "brush" non-sense. Hit straight on through something tough and I believe that the bullets will continue on pretty good. hit anything of substance at an angle and I believe your gonna deflect that bullet like a stone skips off the surface of a calm body of water.

As I said at the academy we ran tests on this with all sorts of firearms and it was amazing to see just how much deflection was possible. Through grass, not much issue, through brush a different story. Then the big question is what is the definition of Brush? How much and how heavy, how deeply must the bullet go through or what thickness of bush? That is the real question? a clump of a few twigs 1 foot wide is not the same as "hard to see through for 7 feet with a few hard wood branches thrown in for good measure!"

That definition is really where the debate sits.

JJ

That's exactly the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.... there's just so many variables which is why on should never say never and never say always.

When a buffalo charges it mostly depends on the distance your shooting IMO or the charge itself..

By this I mean at 50 or so yards a buff charge is comiing with his nose pointed SOMETIMES, and that is the instance you may want to stick one on the hair line above the snoot, a better option IMO is put one high in his chest if your shooting a 40 cal or larger, and you will probably also spine him if your lucky, its a good shot to take..

But I have seen buffalo charge, usually at closer than 30 yards and the head is waving back and fourth and up and down, its hooking the air and it's damn hard to stick one in his brain adn its disconcerting also, but it can be done easily enough if your cool and a good practiced shot....

You can wait until he gets to you as he will duck his head and you can shoot him down through the top of the head if your a cool customer and totally confident in your ability and have terminal cancer so if it doesn't work your OK with that! All kidding aside, this may be your only option in rare cases, so its nice to know.

If I had to pick one bullet to shoot buffalo it woudl without a doubt be a North Fork, cup point, it is the best of both worlds. My seond choice, contrary to the norm, would be a GS Customs FLat Nose Solid..both have worked so well for me that I would be confident with either..

I like softs but only if backed up with solids. Softs are for broadside shots where they work very well indeed.

Or just load up the appropriate weight of a TSX and you have the best solution for any situation

JJHACK:

So if you could have only one bullet "model"...
Would you pick the TSX? In theory of course....

You're not saying instead of a solid, are you?
I know they have a reputation as tough...

Yep, for everything now. I don't see the advantage to the mixed loads in the magazine any longer. The TSX can handle the whole show now. The 450 TSX from my lott shot through everything I hit with it. I recovered two from Buffalo out of probably 30 shot. I recovered only one from White Rhino and shot into a dozen. This with the 458 Lott and the 375HH.

Thanks. It does make it simple doesn't it?

I guess it works out as a solid with petals...

Funny, but the folks I have talked to who have used them can't say enough good about them.

At the shot, a buffalo turns and goes away from you, I have seen many monolithics fail to penetrate through the wet stomach grasses..Saeed has displayed many monolithic bullets that don't look so good to me. I have seen him kill probably 60 buffalo with BarnesX and his own Monolithics..Saeed is an excellent shot, and was a source of information as he is the ultimate bullet digger..Some of those bullets made it and some did not, but that could apply to any bullet short of a solid IMO.

Admittedly I am opinnionated when it comes to DG bullets and DG calibers, but I only state my case and don't require anyone to accept my opine...I seriously doubt that anyone can hunt as much as I have and not become opinnionated.

JJ,
I share your enthusiasm for the TSX. I have long thought that it would make perfect sense to use it and not bother about a solid. My question is would you go a bit lighter and faster or stay with a more conventional bullet weight on buff. I am thinking about using my 9.3x62, so that would mean the use of a 250 vrs 286. After putting a 225gr 338WM stem to stern through a 1000kg Eland I think that the 250 would do the job. All comments will be appreciated.

At this point I think the additional 300fps of the 270gr TSX in the 375HH trumps the 30 grains of weight by using the 300gr. I felt this for a couple years and then saw a post on another hunting site where the writer quoted somebody at barnes that said Barnes is now suggesting that the 270 is a better option in the 375HH for buffalo.

I also very much liked the 450grain bullet at 2250 out of my 458 Lott. It's stunning impacts were much more impressive then the 500 solids. The 450 grain Aframes would just knock things down, but they did not have anywhere near the penetration that the TSX had

JJHack..OK...a little speculation for you ( or you might have actually seen it done...) I have not used a TSX on Buffalo, but would the 270 gr .375 possibly also be better because it has a better chance of staying in the Buffalo...or is over penetration even an issue with TSXs..270 or 300 grainers???
Thinking here of what other buffalo may be standing behind the target animal in a herd situation... is it a consideration?

Ingwe

When shoot through is a possible problem to hit other buffalo I don't even want the shot with a soft. They are too expensive to make a mistake with.

Gotcha...with my limited experience...I never had to deal with a shoot thru...


Ingwe

My problem with the monolithics is by the very fact that the expand, an a bullet expanding slows down. A monolithic will not penetrate like a solid under any conditions and I have seen many monolitics get lost in the wet heavy stomach contents of buffalo. not all of them but some of them, and thats some to many for me..It is the going away shot that stops most of them..Just my opoine, based on what I have observed and the fact that I am a bloody bullet digger of the highest order, I get in there amonst the blood and gore..I recall that Saeed of AR fame collected about 30 or more bullets every year for the 3 years he hunted with me, we did a lot of digging my friends and all were monolithics as Saeed would use nothing else..The last few years he has been making his own. He displayed on AR about 50 to a 100? of them..an interesting look see, and an eye openner.

I am sure that it will always be a point of intelligent conversation between those that have seen the elephant.

I've always felt the TBBC was as good as any bullet, especially the A frame. Heck it's a bonded core Aframe in the front and a solid copper "TSX" base. The problems came from not being available to handloaders.

Had they been available to handloaders imagine the popularity!

I've just been sent this pic of yet another TBBC failure from a friend and fellow PH of mine. The bullets were from his client's rifle.

Both bullets are 375 TBBC solids recovered from an elephant and as you can see, one held together and the other shattered to hell.

Exactly the reason I detest the bloody things!



I guess they might be OK to use as fishing weights though!