Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Tell me about the 257 Weatherby...

My sentiments exactly....I was wanting some kind of whiz bang laser gun for shooting 450 yds and under and was considering the Roy...amongst others...
Getting a screaming deal on a nice .243 thatll spit 85 grainers out pretty flat ended that whole lustful train of thought.....






Or so I believed at the time......


Ingwe

Ingwe,

Got my ol' 788 .243 that is a bugholer with 85 gr. Fed BTHPs, and a screaming deal on a clean 700 BDL, but man, .257 BBs 300+ fps faster...

Might have to build me one and paint it up like my ol' favorite aircraft to work on pictured below, call it "Blackbird" or "Habu"...

There's nothing new about this. A gunsmith in Dalton Ga is Ackley Improving the 257 Weatherby, necking it up to 6.5, and shooting the 120g bullets between 3650 and
700 fps.

Last time I talked to the gunsmith, he had built over 150 of the rifles in the 6.5/257 Roy A.I.

He uses Rem 700's and Win Model 70's for a platform with 26" barrels, none of his guns have blown up yet. I reckon he does not know his ass from third base either.

Most of the die hard wild catters will not even post on this board due to the BS like you read on this post.

It would really shock most people to know the pressures that a 6PPC generates that benchrest shooters use in the loads that win matches.

Four of us put together Five 257 Roys a few years ago. We had Dave Kiff make us a reamer specifically throated for the 115 Berger VLD. The barrels were all 3 groove SS lilja ranging in length from 24 inches to 28 inches. Components: moly coated Berger 115 VLDs, Norma brass, Fed 215 match primers, and RL 25. Bullet jump ranged from .070" to .100".

Since we built them, eight western deer (Coues wt and mule deer) were taken as well as three elk. This bullet/barrel/chambering combination flat out performs! Distances ranged from just over 600 yds to 150 yds with some kills being DRTs. I watched my friend Walt shoot
a coues wt this fall at 400 yds from my 28" Roy. The shot was behind the shoulder with the deer exactly square to the shooter. It was an instant drop dead with not even a twitch.

I would encourage any long distance deer/antelope hunter to give this combination a try. The 257 Roy is very popular here for a reason. It offers the perfect combination of flat trajectory, killing power and reasonable recoil. It is fun to use for the occasional jackrabbit/coyote too.

I do not run anywhere near the velocities that some of you do. But my 24" barreled ULA is about a perfect deer and antelope gun even at more pedestrian speeds. And with a turreted scope, pushing to the pedal to the firewall doesn't buy all that much, anyway.

Now that I read this post it seems we aren't exactly arguing the same point.

I'm using a basic physics line of reasoning to suggest you are quite probably running pressures in excess of the commonly accepted maximum.

I now believe that you are not denying my assertion, but instead are saying the pressures that get your velocities are whatever they are, they are fine in your rifle, and you will continue operating at that level.

If that's the case then I'm willing to shake hands and let it drop because I've found that arguing philosophy instead of physics is what gets people heated.

m

physics is fine. given a steel composition,strength per thickness equasion, now add in the strength of 2 lugs locking into that steel, there is a giving point.
now steel is not all made equal, so some is weaker than others even from the same batch.
one may come apart at a certain pressure and another way take even more.
just like anything made.
look at vehicles, one may run forever, and another be a problem child.

there are standards and mathematical formulas to determine what is a safe pressure for a given steel and thickness, but only trial and error will tell what it can handle.
my 280ai, with a common recommended load of vv n165 blew primers and i couldn't use them again as the primers just fell out after reloading those 2 rounds.
2 was enough to tell me that this recommended load wasn't going to be safe in MY rifle. but why others ?

yes, physics, pressure, steel, conditions, tempt's, etc., all come into play on reloading.
but i, and many others, think rifles are as different as people.
they all have their own unique personalities.

Nosler brass?

yep !
i know crappy brass, but it's what i got to get started with a new round.
when i get time to play more, i'm going to get some factory 280 ammo, and shoot em to fireform new, better brass.

i think remington brass is better than nosler to some point.


and now that you bring this up.

brass should be included in the above reply.

crappy brass also has something to do with pressures and what's safe and not.

I had my suspicions. Folks who load the 280AI tend to firewall it so commonly recommended loads are often hot.

I don't load the 280AI but I do load the 308 so I can give a pertinent example there. Suppose someone asks me for a top load with a 168 grain bullet. Well my 308 really likes 46 gr. RL15 under a 168 Nosler CC in WW brass which is thin, capacious and tough. But all I tell them is "46 of RL15" and they go stick that straight into the soft, thick lower capacity Nosler brass they just bought. Any guesses as to what will happen? You wouldn't be guessing because you already saw it in your 280AI.

True, but there may be different reasons.

The brass acts as a gasket. If the gasket is soft or weak it will show pressure signs and wear out well below the level that would stress the pressure vessel (gun). But if you get a tough enough gasket you can run the vessel through pressure cycles that will fatigue it without blowing gaskets all the time. Integrate enough fatigue and the vessel itself can let go.

yep.

Not slamming that gunsmith or anyone else who develops their own cartridge, hats off to them. I just wonder what you gain by that particular conversion? The 264 WM has a longer rim to shoulder length than the 257 Roy. What powder capacity advantage (if any) would you gain with an AI'd necked up 257 Roy?

I'm also glad to see the tone of this thread improve. I think mathman hit it. Guys may be running over SAAMI but they aren't claiming not to. Merely that is the load they run.

Will there is the damn problem right there!! You're listening to some North Georgia sumbitch about how to do something properly! Don't trust a damn soul from Dalton, Georgia!! They might convince you to marry them and have four children!!!!! TRUST ME!!

Hey I resemble that remark!

RH

Sambo, I can't answer your question. For some reason, the gunsmith developed the 6.5/257 Weatherby AI after working with the 257 Weatherby with zero freebore or close to zero free bore. The 6.5/257 Weatherby AI also had minimal freebore. I met 4 guys that owned rifles in this caliber, and they were all grins. One of the guys was coming back from the range after a load development session and he had some very small groups that he had shot.

None of this stuff is new, just very few folks that wild cat will ever come on a board like this and talk about it for reasons very evident in this post. I did not make up this stuff, I learned from different gunsmiths that have built hundreds of these kinds of rifles.

Load development for these wild cats do not differ from any other cartridge, watch for pressure signs, back off when you see them. Scuffed case heads, ejector marks on case head, thinning lettering on the back of the case head, flattened primers, cratered primers(maybe), hard extraction, loose primer pockets are all signs of high pressure. If you only have to neck size a case after firing is what I look for, have not blown up a gun yet in 30+ years of shooting wild cats.

Pac Nor has a great reamer for a 257 Weatherby with zero freebore, or send them 3 dummy cases with the bullet seated at the depth you want, and they will throat the chamber for that seating depth at no extra charge. I sight in my 257 Weatherby at 1/2" high at 200, and I am dead on at 300 shooting the 100's at 3850. My rifle shoots 1/2" groups at 200 yards with the 6-24 Pentax. Crows do not have a prayer with this rifle.

Gunsmith in Texas specializes in 25/06's...every good Texican should own a 25/06.

He uses 26" Shilen #5 contour, 1-12 twist, R#25, 100g Sierra flat base and Sierra 117g Flat base bullets only, with Fed 215's. Velocity with the Sierra 100's is 3650 and 3350 with the Sierra 117's, using tough winchester brass only. Groups with the 100's is in the .375 range and in the .425 range with the 117's. Pressure is low on the 100's and the only thing that I did was neck size the cases; pressure on the 117's was max, needing full length sizing after firing, but no heavy bolt lift or case head scuffing.

The 1-12 twist will not shoot a 100g Hornady, Nosler, or Barnes bullet of any style, only the 100g Sierra Flat base and the Sierra 117g Flat base will stabalize in the 1-12 twist.

This may or may not interest the quarter bore shooters.

This particular rifle belongs to a friend. I was telling him about my 257's when it came up in conversation that he was receiving the 25/06 from Texas where he has a 25,000 acre deer lease. He asked me to load his ammo and work up the load. I called the gunsmith and he gave me the load. I did not question his judgment, however crazy it sounded to me. I loaded the ammo, set up my Ohler 35P, and simply could not believe the accuracy, velocity, and lack of pressure on the 100's. I only tried the loads that the gunsmith told me to use. It was the first time in my life that it only took me 4 rounds to sight in the gun and another six rounds to develop two extremely accurate loads with two different bullet weights. I of course verified the loads on two different days to ensure the stability of the loads, and nothing changed...accuracy with extreme speed.

I can't say that I understand the dynamics of this Texican's load, I just except it for what it is after meeting 4 other guys that have rifles built by the same guy that shoot the same load. These guys cull a lot of deer and hogs every year.

wouldn't argue with you about what ya like or what ya do, but I would question your perspective on the pressure. Read some of Layne Simpson's original load workup for the 7 STW and some of those and see what the pressures turned out to be when tested. With a fully trued action you will not see the standard pressure signs you talk about necessarily until you're well up there. Not to say you can't run 'em at those pressures if ya want to, but I suspect you're running higher pressure than you think.

No such thing as a fast barrel or any of the other things that people talk about as justifications for why a load is runnin' faster than book. Basically it's just a way of sayin' that something is causin' higher pressure which produces the higher velocity.

Velocity ain't free.

enjoy

Mimimal twist HAS to be a factor with that Texas 25-06. 1 in 12 should help in gaining some velocity. I know Lazzaroni uses mimimum twist on his rifles and they scream. Can't remember where I read it maybe PO Ackley's double book set. IIRC it has something to do with less energy lost due to the decreased twist.

We know bearing surface and freebore also can increase or decrease energy loss which translates into more or less velocity.

Perhaps someone can add to this?