Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Back Pain

I thank all of you for your advice.

For me - I can sometimes go months with very little back pain - and then get a real flair-up. That usually puts me on my back - in bed - on a heating pad for a few days - to a week or so. I have learned long ago (as much of this, I was born with) what not to do - and to ease off when I feel it coming - and usually that works. But, if I put it on a graph - since I've hit 50 there are a few more bad sessions each year. And - the pain on the bad days - can now be "off the scale" - something that was rare in the past. But, I guess that's what Betty Davis meant when she said - "Growing old ain't for sissies!"

I think that after my neuro-surgical consult - if I'm told that surgery is not a good option - I'll just learn to live with it.

The one Dr. that I've seen so far, supported my occasional drunk as a means of dealing with the occasional flair-up - saying he thought it was probably a much less harmful way to manage pain than most pills - and saying it was much easier on my kidneys and my liver. Besides - my wife says I'm a happy drunk ( if only a bit too talkative some times) - so that's all good.

Living as I do, in the mountains of British Columbia, there's lots of good "BC bud" just miles from here - and that's an option I may explore. I don't like the idea of inhaling any smoke - but I know there are many other ways to "partake". I don't want to rule that method out - because, like booze - I don't fear I'll do much harm if I am only using this method to get through the hard times - a few times a season - on average - by using cannabis.

Like my use of booze, I have no desire to get high every day - so I have no fears of using either of those long-researched, much used, long-recommended home remedies - "for medicinal purposes". That phrase has me grinning, because I start thinking of those two old sisters who lived alone on "The Waltons" - and how they made "Papa's Recipe" - "for medicinal purposes" - and how they were always getting visits from men from all over the mountain with various "ailments".

So again, thanks to all of your for your valued advice. I knew you would give me lots to mull over. Now, this week, I have two more Dr.s to see (one of them, a neuro-surgeon) who will look over the x-rays and then give me some more advice.

depends.....to me the key area is sleep....if you can sleep taking the over the counter meds than yah dont need anything heavier....if your hurting to bad to sleep you need something stronger....

as far as over the counter meds.....dont over do them to aviod opiates, to much tylenol will kill your liver, hell you can do it in a single day, over do it long term on NSAIDs like Aleve and Advil and you can likely have heart problems.....if your gonna do over the counter keep a close eye on dosage, just as close as a prescription...

there are millions of ppl that function fine and have a normal quality of life on opiate pain killers....are there a few things yah have to take into consideration? sure but no big deal.....if you do not have an addictive personality and you follow the correct dosage, opiates are not dangerous....the physical dependency is overblown so long as you do what the doc says, its the psychological chit thats difficult.....if after a couple moths of taking the damn things you hate the things and dont want to be on them your safe, you can quit the damn things anytime you want to....i have been taking them off and on for a decade and if all the sudden tomorrow i had no pain i would have zero problems walking away other than a couple days of tapered doses to aviod the withdrawl hangover....

as far as im concerned opiates are safer than the over the counter chit cause the average person is scared of them and is going to approach them with caution.....in all reality the thought that the over the counter stuff is perfectly safe is what can [bleep] yah up.....overdose on tylenol and your looking for a new liver, over do it on NSAIDs and you likely have a heart attack.....follow doctors instructions to the letter and you aint gonna get enough opiates in your system to stop your breathing......

i take the damn things daily at the moment but almost exclusively in the evenings.....i can not take them and do my job so from 5am to 5pm i am not taking the things and i function clear headed and fine....do i hurt during the day? yes but i generally have enough stuff going on where it is easy to ignore the pain so its more like background noise....my problem comes at the end of the day when im trying to relax and there is nothing to take my mind off it and the fact that my back and knees are now more pissed than when i woke up in the morning.....

being on opiate pain killers DOES NOT mean being stoned all the time, hell most the time i just take enough to take the edge off, i still hurt, and after taking for them that lil bit doesnt even make me fuzzy or stoned, just takes the pain down to a level i can function most of the time.....anymore even a large dose doesnt get me stoned, it just drifts me off to sleep....

This was the first article that popped up.

Marijuana Aids Nerve Pain Relief

Researchers map spine's response to cannabis for pain relief when morphine fails

Where morphine fails, marijuana may work. That's the major finding of British research into the pain caused by nerve injuries, a pain known to be somewhat resistant to morphine and similar drugs that are the gold standard for treating just about any other kind of serious pain.

The researchers say they now have evidence that active components of cannabis, which is better known as marijuana, may offer hope.

"It's known that if you injure a nerve, the morphine receptors in the spinal cord disappear and that's probably why morphine isn't a very effective pain killer for such conditions as shingles, people who have had an amputation or perhaps if cancer has invaded the spinal cord," says Andrew Rice, a senior lecturer in pain research at London's Imperial College.

"But what we've shown is that the cannabinoid receptors do not disappear when you injure a nerve. So this could offer a therapeutic advantage over morphine for treating such pain, " he adds.

Cannabinoids are components of cannabis or compounds that mimic cannabis, and discovering the complexities behind how and why they can offer pain relief has been the focus of various areas of research.

Rice says the significance of his team's research is that they mapped the cannabinoid receptors in the spinal cord and showed that they are found specifically in areas concerned with pain processing.

"Other researchers showed that if you inject cannabinoid compounds in small doses in the spinal cord, you get pain relief. And we showed how that effect is mediated," he explains. "In addition, a third group of people showed that nerve cells in the spinal cord that are normally activated by pain are damped down by small doses of cannabinoid in the spinal cord fluid."

The findings were published in a recent issue of Molecular and Cellular Neuroscience.

Rice says the task now is to find out how to administer the cannabinoids, but he cautions that the most familiar -- smoking it -- is the last thing researchers would advise.

"Smoking is obviously a big health hazard and we're certainly not going to advocate that people smoke cannabis. So right now we're looking at ways of delivering the drug to the body," he says.

"One problem with cannabinoids is that they are very fat-soluble, so that makes them very difficult to formulate the drugs into pills or injections. So one way that's being looked at by some pharmaceutical companies is using the kind of inhaler that asthma sufferers use."

"It's going to be a tough cookie to crack, however," he adds.

Cannabinoid compounds are among a variety of drugs that have been intensely looked at as researchers look for alternatives to the remarkably few pain relief options.

"Researchers have spent the last 30 years trying to understand the mechanism of pain, particularly in the skin and spinal cord, and the massively complex array of chemicals that are involved in that process," Rice explains.

"While people have generally tried to target each of those chemicals to develop pain killers, very few approaches have been successful, and we're still essentially left with the three very old, basic concepts in drugs: morphine, which has been with us for thousands of years, aspirin or acetaminophen," he adds.

Dr. Kenneth Mackie, an associate professor in anesthesiology and physiology at the University of Washington in Seattle, says there is indeed great concern in the medical community about the need to find better pain relief for damaged nerves, but that progress is being made.

"It's obviously a big problem for the people who have that kind of pain and on the basic science side, it's an area of intense investigation. Cannabinoids are just one option that people are looking at."

"Our understanding of the wiring of the spinal cord is evolving very quickly, however, and we should soon be able to choose drugs to work more effectively," he adds.

A young man I flew with went this route. He was diagnosed with colon cancer at age 37, and the morphine and delaudid had little effect as the disease (and treatment) progressed. Gunther did get quite a bit of relief from prescription cannabis. He lost his battle to the disease in less than a year, but he told me many times that his 'really bad days', especially during the chemo, were made a little better with cannabis usage. He knew pretty well he was terminal, so smoking it was not a problem with him, even though he'd been a health nut his entire life.

BC,I feel for you.I've had back problems all of my life.I'm a lineman,so some days are really tough,some are ok.Good luck with your Dr's,next week. Lightman

Sometimes surgery isnt the best way to go. For years different surgeons all had the same idea about my wife. With the amount of damage she has, they would do more harm than good. They said that when shes paralyzed they will do the surgery.

Last July, I wheeled her (she was in a wheelchair) into the surgeons office and 2 days later she was on the table.

Of course now they will probably have to go back in and remove all the titanium, that sucks.

As for pain management, her pain doc is cool. hes broke his back and has had all kinds of fusions, etc. so he knows all about back pain and he automatically throws in a detox program for after the pain program.

Brian

You might try Methadone if the Hydrocodone doesn't help. The problem with narcotics is that they lower your blood oxygen level. Take too many and you pass out and die. I had a friend who was taking many narcotic pain killers. He went in for Open Heart Surgery and the Anesthesiologist said he was taking more Pain medication each day than they normally give the patient for the surgery. They could only take his BOL down to 40 (normal is 95-100 and 32 is Dead) He had a real problem with the recovery because of this.

If you can get a referral or can afford it you may want to go the University of Washington and see if they can help. They are the top rated Orthopedic and Neurological Hospital in the Western US and probably better than anything you can get in Canada. I know two friends from Vancouver who have gone there and had "incurable" back issues fixed.

And no waiting line.

as far as pot, if yah dont want to be stoned off opiates its not an option either, infact alot easier to stay clear headed on opiates cause it is a alot easier to control the dosage to just take the edge off with opiates cause you can control the dosage alot closer....

as far as pot, if you are going to go that route, dont smoke the chit....easiest plan of attack is the fact that the active ingredients easily dissolve in alcohol....get yourself some high quality hash.....all hash is just the glands off the pot plant and none of the green flowers, basically more concentrated but it is no more dangerous as water and screens are used most often to concentrate it, not chemicals.....take the hash and mix it with some 100 plus proof alcohol(the higher the proof the more pot per shot) and let it sit for a week shaking it occasionally....by doing this you can control the dosage atleast for that bottle....1/4 shot, 1/2 shot, full shot, whatever is needed to help....take the shot, hold it under your tongue for as long as yah can stand than swallow....you get around screwing up your lungs and can control dosage to some extent though its gonna change when yah make the next bottle....also the effects last longer when it is absorbed through the gut, smoking gives yah a quick concentrated dose via the lungs....the gut is more time release and will take longer to take effect just like taking a pill....

you can also do a pill form but i dont suggest it unless your growing cause its labor intensive and extremely expensive if your not supplying your own material...

To a big extent the pain you can tolerate depends on you. My dentist keeps trying to give me prescriptions for Vicodin. I am still taking them from the first one he gave me. I just never need more than one of them. As it is I don't intend to ever let neice or nephew find out about them. Kids are just too light fingered.

depends on alot of things, i can deal with a hell of alot of pain in my knees and back, grit my teeth and get through it if i have to......give me a headache at half the level of pain and i cant function....i dont understand how my wife says she can ignore her migraines to a certain point cause i sure in the hell cant ignore a regular headache.....my wife can ignore her head until it gets real bad but a smaller level of pain on her foot drives her nuts....

as far as dentists, i have no pain nerves in my teeth, i can have an nerve open to the air and it not bug me for two and a half years....i walked out of one dentists office after i decided to get something done with that tooth she insisted i needed pain meds, figured if i couldnt get through her head that it hasnt hurt for 2 and a half years she wasnt gonna listen to a damn thing i was saying anyway and found a different dentist....

spikes of pain dont bug me, i can grit my teeth through them and they go away, no big deal.....my problem is a lower level that never seems to go away.....that chit can drive you nuts...

pain tolerance and what sort of pain can be tolerated varies greatly from one individual to another......Scott says he can ignore his back pain, good for him i tried that in the beginning with my knees, worked for 12 months before i couldnt do it anymore, my brain literally started shutting my body down and i would sleep for 18 hours a day....guess it decided if i wasnt going to deal witht he pain it was going to make it so i avoided pissing them off.....doc said it was a form of depression associated with chronic pain patients and told me to quit whatever in the hell i was doing....

another way to take cannabis is through a vaporizer.
it heats up the crystallized THC into a vapor and you inhale just that, and not all the other plant material like you do from smoking it.

If I understand correctly you should get a lumbar spine MRI so a radiologist can determine, hopefully, the anatomical derangement involved and at what level of your lower spine. Then, you need to do one, and probably more of several options. One is, if appropriate for the findings, find a pain practitioner who can provide the appropriate injections (i.e., if you have radiculopathy due to a pinched nerve from either osteophytes, or a herniated disc); another is exercises for your lower back, perhaps pure manipulation (Chiropractic), massage, ultrasound therapy, etc.

All can help at different times and with different people and none will work for everybody and in every situation. Chronic pain can lead to depression very much so and some antidepressants can have certain pain-relieving properties so they are often given to pain patients; they can also sometimes help with sleep.

I hope you can find some relief. Lower back pain is the number one medical problem in western civilization.

If you go the injection route, be very careful. I've had two from two different medical pain doctors, and even though I was on the scope in both instances, both put holes in my spinal cord, causing spinal fluid leakage. In each instance, it put me in the hospital with the most excruciating pain known to man; I'm not kidding you there. You can't move, and the spinal headache will drop you like a sack of bricks. I had to have a blood patch in both cases to stop the leakage. Both of these 'pain' experts had over 30 years in their practice.
Never, never, again....

That can happen and the HAs are bad. The chance each time is only about 1:250-300 in good hands. You did have some poor experiences.

Have you tried ice packs instead of heat?

Heat increases circulation and with that, inflammation. Usually ice will decrease inflammation and discomfort.

No - but I will, even though a heating pad, while laying in bed seems more "traditional" (not to mention - comfortable) - what you say, is surely worth a try - just about everything is - short of heroin, perhaps. And when the pain was at it's very worst - I'm glad I didn't have any heroin laying around the house!

I was recently in a car accident,and am doing alot of therapy now.The most recent thought,is exercise.Not pain meds and rest,exercise.I go to a gym,and work out on neck and back specific weigh machines twice a week.

this is where I go now.

http://www.pnbconline.com/index.htm

I'm working out too, and not because my ortho doc says to, but because I recently had a coronary stent installed and my cardiologist wants me to. My back is worse because of it. I know my CV health is better, but there are consequences. Getting old ain't for sissies.

The heat is comfortable, I'll give you that. At least alternate them.

I remember seeing a TV show that said heroin is a great pain reliever and doesnot depress the body the way pain meds do. Also said heroin is used in Great Britain for cancer patients.

the exercises that help with most back problems ARE NOT the normal ones you do in the gym as a normal part of a routeen.....depending on what exactly your injury is normal gym exercises can make you worse, alot worse....

chances are if your doing anything that involves weights you arent doing the right stuff.....the exercises my personal physical therapist gave me to do to fix my back dont have me doing any weights other than the weight of my own body.....your targeting a completely different set of muscles for a back injury.....if you dont look like your doing yoga or some sorta dumb arse thing your prolly not doing the right thing