Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Another Leupold Failure

To borrow a phrase I saw posted here long ago, it's a place to hold your crosshairs. Most of mine have a gold ring. They work and work well for me and have for years and they're available @ a price point that is not offensive to me. Should I need it, I know their cust svc is hassle free and will have a goofed up scope back to me in a reasonable time. I can pay more for a different brand of scope, possibly get more for my $$$, but I won't feel warm and fuzzy doing so. Therefore I stick with what I know and with what's been working for me for a number of years.

I have a Leupold success story!!!!

I Just sold my last Leupold on classified!

Elite's aren't bad scopes, but I don't see many comparisons of them vs Leupold.......



Casey

Congrats

Although Bushnells are sold at a lot of the big box stores, I not so sure they outsell Leupold. Nor do I see evidence their failure rate is any less (or more for that matter).

Leupolds are a mid-priced scope in a world where a hunting scope can cost $40-$2500. For eyebox, quality of optics, weight and yes, reliability, they are still the best scope the average guy can reasonably afford.

A $2000 Schmidt & Bender on top of an elk rifle reminds of somebody who would drive to elk camp in a canary yellow Hummer.......



Casey

There have been a lot of such comparisons over the years at opticstalk.

The VXIII and the newer VX3 are the ones most closely approximating the 4200's.

This thread is a hornets nest of opinion so at the risk of getting stung I will pass on a bit of knowledge that was recently passed on to me.

First was info from Richard Near. The guy that builds some very nice scope mounts. I was inquiring why his Alpha mounts had the rings positioned so far forward on the scope tubes. Richard has his finger on the pulse of world wide competition and military precision shooters who must be able to place the first shot accurately and count on precise tracking. The reason the rings are placed the way they are is that on his favorite brand of scope, Leupold the erector assembly is hinged right in front of the power selection ring. He has found that any distortion to the tube at this point on the scope causes all sorts of problems with the performance of the scope. Some of them are repeated here time after time as a problem with the scope when it in fact is a case of improper mounting or defective mounts. Those problems are tracking issues. With the erector all bound up it may take a few shots to settle in or may never move predictably. I have had this problem myself and was guilty of blaming the scope. Other less annoying problems are a hard to turn power ring, loss of gas or fogging, out of focus issues.

Once it's done if done bad enough the scope will need to be repaired. Usually lapping the rings or not torquing the screws so tight will remedy the problem. 12-15 inch pounds is plenty. The ideal is get your rear ring moved as far forward as you can. Look at the pictures on Near's sight and it shows most of the rings pretty far forward. It looks funny but if you want absolute tracking reliability you will find a way to do it. Using his advise I now can get zeroed in 2 to 3 shots. The thicker tubed scopes like Night Force, Swarovski, Zeiss, etc are still susceptible to the same problems but it takes more pressure on the tube to make it happen. Schmidt Bender places the battery housing over the hinge point to prevent rings from being placed on this most sensitive spot.

Schmidt Bender goes on, �The majority of scope and consistency problems can be traced to improper mounting. Unless you are skilled in mounting riflescopes, we recommend that you have a qualified gunsmith mount your Schmidt & Bender riflescope. Also, use the finest quality rings and bases possible.�

Now as far as where Leupold is made. Here is the response to that very question that I asked a friend who works there just sent to me.

"Leupold rifle scopes, binoculars, and spotting scopes that wear a gold ring are made in Beaverton, Oregon. All aluminum fabrication and all assembly is done in Beaverton. Lenses are manufactured in China to strict specifications and also stringently tested to ensure they meet all specs. Rifleman scopes and the new line of Redfield scopes are also machined and assembled in Beaverton. The cost of lenses is a major part of a scope, enough cost that the company could not claim a 100% "Made in USA" label, so it was dropped. Leatherman had the same problem with one of their tools. A single spring was made in China and that was enough to stop them from putting a Made in USA tag on their tool. Leupold products with a green ring, primarily binoculars and laser ranging devices, are made in China. All optical and mechanical design work is by engineers in Beaverton."

"Beaverton facility employs nearly 600 people. Leupold is among the biggest consumers of aluminum stock on the West coast. They have row after row of turning lathes and CNC mills. Rifle scopes are assembled in a clean room so that no dust or debris can get into a scope. There is an impact testing rig that slams scopes at much higher forces than they will ever see in the field. Competitors scopes are typically destroyed by tests that all Leupold rifle scopes must pass.

Lenses were made in China when I started there in 2001, don't know how long before that. As I said before, optical specification and design is from optical engineers and scientists in Beaverton and all lenses are tested to ensure they meet those specs. I can assure you there is nothing second rate about Leupold glass.

Again, many Leupold products are made in China, most binoculars and all range finders and most spotting scopes. But ALL gold ring products are made and assembled in Beaverton. Many old time Leupold employees are unhappy that the Leupold brand is cheapened and diminished by these off shore products. Products that don't meet Leupold specs are never sold. But the economic health of the company requires growth and diversification and the Beaverton plant is running at full capacity."

As far as I'm concerned, you show me someone who has repeated problems with their scopes and I will show you someone with mounting issues. I will continue to believe Leupold offers a great scope for the price and will continue to use, sell and promote them whenever I can.

Shawn

Hired Gun,

Good post.

I have written about the same mounting issues for a while now, but a lot of people just don't get it. In fact the head tech guy for a custom rifle firm once complained to me about so many Leupolds being "bad out of the box." It turned out he was cranking down on the ring screws as if tightening lug nuts. (Luckily, he doesn't work there anymore.)

I would also like to respond to an earlier post that stated Leupold makes "mid-priced" scopes. This is only partially true. Leupold makes low-priced scopes, mid-priced scopes and high-priced scopes.

One of my recent scope tests has been of a 30mm-tube Leupold VX-7 2.5-10x, which retails at around $1000 and is designed to compete with European scopes in the same price range. It tested perfectly in every one of my trials, inclouding adjustments. The optics rank right in there with top-notch Euros. The optics test, by the way, was not done by just looking through the scope, but by using an optics chart after dark with a controlled light source.

I have had the VX-7 on a .375 H&H since I got it, and have mostly been firing top-velocity 300-grain loads. It hasn't shown the slightest bit of distress, and I've put a lot of rounds through the rifle.

Then again, this is a sample of one.

You haven't looked very hard. It's been discussed numerous times here and in other forums. Dave Petzal said (FWIW) that the Elite was one of the toughest scopes he'd ever seen.

this is a great post. If you use Talley LW rings and the supplied small allen wrench can you assume that your not applying too much torque? Then why are not the Leupold rings and bases made in accordance to the fact that the erector assembly is located in the exact place that they are??

JimmyP..

Any other 2 pc sporting scope mount I am aware of for bolt rifles putt the rear ring pretty much in the same place on any given rifle. It's not like it is some deep dark conspiracy by Leupold. Also the rear gimbal design has been used by them for over 20 years now. Other scope makers also use it.

There are a lot of interellated factors of exactly where the rear ring winds up getting placed along the scope tube.

length of the recover,
length of the rear scope bell assmebly aft of thr main tube
Scope eye relief
stock length
action length
lenght of the rear reciever bright
placement of mout screws on that rear bridge.

The various combinations of interelating factors are as unique as the shooters are who own each gun.

Unless you are using a full length Picatinny style rail with multiple ring mounting slots, you may not have much choice where that rear ring will be placed along the scope tube. Even then, there would be limitations.

And that is a problem, now isn't it?

Compared to Leup, they're heavier and longer.

Your going to be really pizzed when that $$$$ AV fails.....

Been there, done that.

Lefty C

And that is a problem, now isn't it? [/quote}


It might be, if you want to put that rear ring right over the ejection port of the rifle.

A solid rail could be a big problem not only in terms of case ejection but access to the loading port. It depends on the rifle design and exactly where the user wants the scope mounted.

And Elite 4200's are less expensive and have a better warranty, as well as arguably being stronger and clearer.

I just got off the phone with a Leupold Tech. I asked him if is was possible that I mounted my scope in the wrong place or over tightened the screws.

He said it was possible and this is the solution to the problem he gave me.

"Avoid mounting the rings over the dimple on the scope. This dimple is the stud for the erector spring."

"When tightening your screws down, tighten them evenly with an even gap on both sides to 28" lbs".

"I then said I don't have a way of measuring to 28" lbs. The tech then told me that when I tighten the screws down, tighten till you feel a slight spring on your torx wrench, then it is tight enough".

A very simple solution, just wish Leupold made it more clear on their mounting instructions.

28 inches pounds is too much IMHO and experience. I bet if you call them again and speak to a different tech, that he will give you a different torque spec. I called them 3 times one day and got 3 different tech's and they gave me 3 different torque settings.

I should have taken that bet.

I just called them back two more times and talked with three different techs.

They all said the same thing 28" lbs for the screws.

You lose.

Here's their number why don't you call them? 800-538-7653 ext 9.

Leupold has published their "Recommended Torque Values" for some time. It comes with your mounting instructions and is the same info the tech reads off on the phone:

Commercial LEU Maximum Recommended Torque Values:

6-48 Base Screws - 22 in/lbs
8-40 Base Screws - 28 in/lbs
8-40 Ring Screws - 28 in/lbs
STD Windage Screws - 45 in/lbs
Ringmount Keeper Screws - 45 in/lbs
PRW Keeper Screws - 22 in/lbs

Best:)