Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters MPBR....270W/130gr.

More challenging making these shots work with a 3" high at 100yards. I somehow manage to get by with the bullet landing where the crosshairs are planted, even though I'm severely handicapped by doing so. Live and learn...

Thanks Ken I will do just that

I'm kinda scratchin' my head at those who worry about an extra 1/2 to inch of bullet rise at 100-200 yards,but aren't concerned about dealing with 6-10" of drop at 300-350.....

And with a 3" high zero at 100 with a 270-130,you are about 1" high at 50.....so I don't even worry about midrange in the brush....25 yards,50,...150, I aim center of chest and kill them....

Folks like to talk about adding group dispersion onto the midrange that insures you will "miss".....but one does not get to shoot groups at BG animals. And if you shoot poorly, you will miss with any zero...there is no free lunch.

All this is being made way too complex;at 350,you hold high shoulder,aim, squeeze, follow through,ie call you shot when the sear breaks,and you will see them fold....25 yards or 350...nuthin' easier unless you flub it.

I hunt some super thick country and, like Steelhead, put it dead on for 100 when I hunt there. The absolute longest possible shot there is 150 yards. I also hunt some high plains where you can see and shoot for a very, very long way if you're capable. I rezero for that country. I used to do the 3" high thing with a regular plex, and it worked ok, but lately I've used a ballistic plex with the main crosshairs dialed in at 200. Max range varies....

I have shot a .270 Win since I was about 14 and have always sighted it in 3" high at 100 yards..Under field conditions and out of breath sometimes,those .5" paper numbers mean nothing to me.I own 2 of the .270's now,both sighted in 3" high at 100..Never had a problem with it under field conditions.

Just my experience with my old friend,the .270.

Jayco

Excellent post Bob.
Spot on with all your points.

I'm not sure I get your point here.

When I brought up group dispersion it was with respect to the far end of the mpbr envelope, not the midrange. Also whether or not you're shooting a group the same variation can affect a particular shot.

I'm not arguing for any given system here. It just seems to me that if you want to rely on a bullet traveling within a particular envelope you should account for influences on the size and shape of the envelope.

mathman: Not really directed at you; I have seen this mentioned many times before :),so I was commenting generically.

Mostly these "faults" associated with the MPBR or "2.5-3" high zero (they are so very much the same I have a hard time distinguishing between them) are more problematic in theory than reality....

I missed a hurried shot at a beautiful big red stag in Spain because I was unfamiliar with the species (it was the first one that I saw), and it looked so much like an elk (which is much larger). It was much closer than I thought that it was.

I tried to get fancy with hold-over and of course shot over it.

(I could, I suppose, use the excuse that I was shooting an unfamiliar cartridge from an unfamiliar rifle, but the awful truth is that missing easy shots is one of my special talents.)

I don't think your alone,Ken.Anyone who has hunted has done the same and some more than others.My biggest fault is judging distance and with a cartridge like the .270,one should not as much as I have.

When it gets over the 22" hold over on an Elk and your in the wild blue yonder,it's tough to do sometimes.That is one of the reasons I never shoot past 400 or so.

All this computer calculations is great if your shooting off a bench,but to this day,I have never found one out there with little time once I see a critter to pull the trigger..So an inch here or there isn't to important to me as wobbly as a guy might be,beating the steep hillside.

Shooting your rifle in field conditions/positions is way more important than any computer program or shooting range when it comes to bring home the bacon.

Just another opinion.

Jayco

I guess for me I like to know exactly where my bullet is striking, and have taken probably 6 of the head shots that SH posted. MPBR just seems like a + or - 3 inch guess.

I primarily hunt the think stuff, even in more open terrain. I hunt public land and regardless of the region, the critters seem to be in the thick stuff. I have yet to find that 5x5 bull standing out in the middle of a pasture like on the TV shows.

Dead on at 100, 3.5 inches low at 200, hold on the top of the back at 300 for a deer sized animal. Beyond that I 'm not not shooting. Again I'd rather be right on at 100 where 90% of shots take place (often very quickly btw) than 3 inches high.

So you're alright with holdover at 300 and 2.5" low at 200.
I prefer holding where I intend to hit and pulling the trigger and then I don't care what the range is as long as it's not over 300.

Where did you find that number? Maybe in Ohio but not out West. In Idaho, I'd say 90% of the shots are over 200 yards.

In my 270 with 130 gr bullets, I'm 3" high at 100 yds, 4" at 200 yards, MPBR around 285, 3" low at 325 and 8" low at 400. 400 yards is about as far as I shoot, so I never have to leave hair when shooting. I own a range finder so I'm never guessing my yardage.

Yup

What I am trying to to get across is I feel the MPBR is not as precise. As stated by Ken H, you are basically accepting a 6 inch zone in which your bullet will strike. If you are at the outer edge of that circle due to the range and your aim is off a few inches due to human error, you are likely outside of the desired kill zone. If I need to aim 3 inches high, well I just aim 3 inches high.

It works for me, your system works for you. We probably aren't going to convince each other otherwise, and that is fine. We are just sharing differ viewpoints.

I tend to disagree,with respect.It is one thing off the bench and totally another in the field.Once your rifle is sighted in,the rest is up to you in conditions far different than a range with a rest and the weather...

I have never suffered with 3 high at 100 with any of my rifles,including the 270 Win...Everyone has a different exhaustion stage hiking in the hills without a rest handy which takes everything your rifle did in a controlled atmosphere and throws it out the window.

Unless your a still hunter set up and un-winded,your prone to human faults whether horseback or walking.We all no where are rifles hit in the controlled atmosphere of a range and bench

But how many know kneeling or off hand and somewhat out of breath?That's where experience comes in just doing it,hopefully before hunting season.

The net anymore seems harmful rather than helpful when it comes to hunting and how to as if you didn't already no.

Again..Just an opinion as when Ray/Ken and others are told there wrong..That just don't ad up for me.

Jayco

Again, once someone's mind is made up it is hard to convince them otherwise. I know what works for me. As to the question about the 90% within 100 yds....I have read this several times and it does mirror my own experiences. Yes, I am primarily a Ohio Whitetail hunter, but have some experiences out west. I have found most critters on public land in the think stuff and fairly close.

This girl was shot at about 100 yds off hand in the dark timber.
[img:center]



I actually snuck within about 40 yds of this guy while he was sleeping. I watched him for a good hour, of course had no tag.
[img:center]

It seems to me that the unsteadiness of field positions or shakes from being winded would affect either sight in system.

For me, 3" high at 100 was more of a detriment than a help. As a teenager I tried the JOC method with my 270 and found it was a pain to hold under rockchucks and the bottom edge of coyotes at the 100-200 range. I realize the OP asked about deer, but thats what I learned shooting at critters. Not to mention, I've seen way more animals overshot than undershot and many times the shooter is sighted in for the long-range opportunity.

I have sighted in elk rifles for open country hunting at 3" high, but than an elk is a big bullseye and 5" high probably wouldn't matter much.

It would, but a Hunter is not a Bench Shooter.One can be both but not at the same time under the same situations hunting provides.I didn't even bring up heart rate in the field when only a Grouse jumps out from under your feet compared to a controlled atmosphere.Then theirs Buck Fever and the raised blood flow that entails which effect steadiness.

Under hunting conditions,I am just seeing how .5" means squat..I would take that or an inch or two in a second.

I just don't believe in computer estimates compared to actual happenings.

With respect to you sir!!!

Jayco

Who the [bleep] said anything about holdover? It's akin to holdunder at close ranges. I said I want the bullet to land where the crosshairs are planted. Maybe you haven't heard of turrets, they've been around for sometime now.

Guessing ain't my gig but suits many around here, just ask JO.