Most of the game I have shot hasn't given me the time to deploy a rig like JWP uses.
That's a fairly common argument....
I can understand not having time when hunting doves, or rabbits, or grouse....but not having time to make a shot on big game just doesn't wash with me where the far reaches of MPBR or the need for turrets would be concerned.
If the animal is aware of the hunter enough to make it spook, then that lends very little to the ability of the hunter to actually hunt....especially at "long" range, which is the crux of this "debate" as JO wants to call it.
The concept of turrets is easy, if one takes a second to understand it.....
Using a 200 yard, or 250 yard zero with turrets is actually employing a form of MPBR. From the muzzle to 200, or 250, it's a simple matter of holding on a kill zone and squeezing the trigger. My ten point last year walked himself right into that "MPBR" and I didn't have to twist anything on him. 205 yards, bang flop, with a 208Amax out of my '06.
If the hunter is doing things right, an animal that is beyond that 200, or 250, yard zero is easily ranged, and easily range compensated for by twisting an ele turret. The shot is made, a follow up shot is readied just in case, and once death is confirmed the ele turret is returned to zero.
An accurate method to determine range, a range card (confirmed by actually shooting it) and an intimate knowledge of the shooting platform is all that's needed.
For me that's an LRF, a detailed dope card (much of which is committed to memory), and I shoot constantly off season.
There are sensible limitations that anyone with common sense would adhere to. Certain wind conditions will prevent me from taking a shot at game regardless of having a windage knob and a dope sheet. I also limit myself to a maximum effective range with each chambering. This is dictated by the level of energy at that range, and what the bullet will do there. With turrets I can certainly hit beyond that range but I won't depend on the physics to do the job it needs to do on the animal.
The animal too, is a determining factor. With my 243AI I will most definitely take a shot on a groundhog or coyote out to 1K, but the same load will never be fired at a deer beyond 500 yards. To make a 500 yard shot with that rifle and it's 200 yard zero, I would need to dial 7.25 MOA elevation. A full twist gives 15 MOA. Spinning to 7.25 on my M1's takes about one second....if a person can recognize whole numbers and count by 1/4's.
My guess is that typing the correct characters on a key board is much more difficult.....
Sure, everything I've mentioned can be done with dots instead of turrets, and to some extent MPBR, but to me those are just not as precise as dialing dope and pasting crosshairs. Not every shot on game is made under ideal conditions. There are enough external forces at play that without as much inherent precision as possible, a miss or wounding is too easy.
Noone will ever convince me that they can judge a distance by eye and hold over a shot with more precision than I can do with an LRF and turrets....ain't happening.
Turrets give you the precision not found BETWEEN the dots, and not found out further than MPBR allows. Anyone that feels they need to argue that is either one helluva great shot, or hasn't shot much at all.......
Maybe I have been fortunate, but I have never had the oportunity to shoot at anything 500 yards away and that includes a fair bit of hunting out west. In my neck of the woods you might be able to watch a deer for hours and you might only catch a glimpse. I like to use my Geovids to range landmarks where I am hunting then I know exactly where I can and cant shoot. But in all honestly I cant say I have used this to good effect as most of my shots have been close enough that it doesnt matter with a flat shooting gun. I see and read alot about guys setting up for the long ball. IMO and IME I am better off practicing enough so I am able to hit anything out to 300 from field positions 100% of the time than worrying about shooting something 600 yards away. Besides I use sporter rifles which are not really suited to the long range game and I have no desire to tote around a rig like JWP's.
Most of the game I have shot hasn't given me the time to deploy a rig like JWP uses.
That's a fairly common argument....
I can understand not having time when hunting doves, or rabbits, or grouse....but not having time to make a shot on big game just doesn't wash with me where the far reaches of MPBR or the need for turrets would be concerned.
If the animal is aware of the hunter enough to make it spook, then that lends very little to the ability of the hunter to actually hunt....especially at "long" range, which is the crux of this "debate" as JO wants to call it.
The concept of turrets is easy, if one takes a second to understand it.....
Using a 200 yard, or 250 yard zero with turrets is actually employing a form of MPBR. From the muzzle to 200, or 250, it's a simple matter of holding on a kill zone and squeezing the trigger. My ten point last year walked himself right into that "MPBR" and I didn't have to twist anything on him. 205 yards, bang flop, with a 208Amax out of my '06.
If the hunter is doing things right, an animal that is beyond that 200, or 250, yard zero is easily ranged, and easily range compensated for by twisting an ele turret. The shot is made, a follow up shot is readied just in case, and once death is confirmed the ele turret is returned to zero.
An accurate method to determine range, a range card (confirmed by actually shooting it) and an intimate knowledge of the shooting platform is all that's needed.
For me that's an LRF, a detailed dope card (much of which is committed to memory), and I shoot constantly off season.
There are sensible limitations that anyone with common sense would adhere to. Certain wind conditions will prevent me from taking a shot at game regardless of having a windage knob and a dope sheet. I also limit myself to a maximum effective range with each chambering. This is dictated by the level of energy at that range, and what the bullet will do there. With turrets I can certainly hit beyond that range but I won't depend on the physics to do the job it needs to do on the animal.
The animal too, is a determining factor. With my 243AI I will most definitely take a shot on a groundhog or coyote out to 1K, but the same load will never be fired at a deer beyond 500 yards. To make a 500 yard shot with that rifle and it's 200 yard zero, I would need to dial 7.25 MOA elevation. A full twist gives 15 MOA. Spinning to 7.25 on my M1's takes about one second....if a person can recognize whole numbers and count by 1/4's.
My guess is that typing the correct characters on a key board is much more difficult.....
Sure, everything I've mentioned can be done with dots instead of turrets, and to some extent MPBR, but to me those are just not as precise as dialing dope and pasting crosshairs. Not every shot on game is made under ideal conditions. There are enough external forces at play that without as much inherent precision as possible, a miss or wounding is too easy.
Noone will ever convince me that they can judge a distance by eye and hold over a shot with more precision than I can do with an LRF and turrets....ain't happening.
Turrets give you the precision not found BETWEEN the dots, and not found out further than MPBR allows. Anyone that feels they need to argue that is either one helluva great shot, or hasn't shot much at all.......
Maybe I have been fortunate, but I have never had the oportunity to shoot at anything 500 yards away and that includes a fair bit of hunting out west. In my neck of the woods you might be able to watch a deer for hours and you might only catch a glimpse. I like to use my Geovids to range landmarks where I am hunting then I know exactly where I can and cant shoot. But in all honestly I cant say I have used this to good effect as most of my shots have been close enough that it doesnt matter with a flat shooting gun. I see and read alot about guys setting up for the long ball. IMO and IME I am better off practicing enough so I am able to hit anything out to 300 from field positions 100% of the time than worrying about shooting something 600 yards away. Besides I use sporter rifles which are not really suited to the long range game and I have no desire to tote around a rig like JWP's.
SW VA has all kinds of potential for a long shot, and we're not skeered to take advantage of it.....
Per sporter rifles:
Here's one....
Short barrel, low X glass, with an 8 year old driving it in the wind, turrets.....and 5 for 5 hits at 500+.
Go long or go home....A guy I guided a couple years ago. This buck was laying out on an open sagebrush hillside with a handfull of does. No way to cut the distance. I offered to loan my rifle for the shot. We were 600 meters from this buck. We waited for him to stand up and from a rock solid rest he put one .308 155gr scenar through this bucks lungs. It was dead calm. A crisp November morning with no mirage....this guy had never fired this rifle before. He had no idea how far the shot was until it was over...when he asked how far 600 meters was I said you'll find out when we start walking over to get him...
Granted this rifle isnt one you would carry around the mountains all day but for a lot of hunting in Eastern Montana it works just fine...glad I had it along that day!!
We found this 28" buck the evening before and ran out of daylight. So the next morning we walked about 2 miles in the dark, hoping to catch him going back to bed down...it worked out fine but the closest we could get to him was 430 meters. We were up on a high bluff with the sun at our backs. John killed him with one well placed 165gr accubond from his .308. It was basically a chip shot for that rifle.
....Would love to hunt with my fellow forum brothers! 
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