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Joined: Nov 2002
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 202 |
Savage dudes,
What is all this Pre-Mill talk I see in this Savage forum? Just what does Per-mill mean? ..
99savage308
..NRA Life Member ..
.."There are only two things in life worth having. A woman from anywhere and a fine Swiss watch."..
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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serial number less than one million.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
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Happened in 1960. Pre-1960 (aka, pre-mil) rifles are much more desirable to collectors than the post-1960 (aka, postmil) rifles. They moved the manufacturing and changed a lot of the parts and models.
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Joined: May 2006
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Campfire Regular
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After WWII (1946) Savage merged their long-time production from Utica, NY into the Stevens plant at Chicopee Falls, MA (they had owned Stevens for years before this). Quality of the Model 99 line appeared not to suffer and life was still good in the world of Savage. In 1960 Savage moved production to Westfield, MA and this was coincident to serial numbers reaching the 1 million mark. After the move to Westfield, collectors, aficionados, and admirers generally agree that "post-mil" quality turned South. Internals less rugged, configuration short cuts, degraded quality wood, general quality control also declined. The post-mil models don't have the appeal of the pre-mil units and don't get no respect from serious collectors, which you will find in abundance hereabouts.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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OP
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Thanks fellow Saavge Dudes for the replies.
I thought I fell and woke up in another Twight Zone. Pre-mil this Post-mil this. What rubbish. And now I see the rage in 99's is the old Pre-mil,as some call 'em, 30-30 cal. rifles. One wonders what will be next? 303's or those ooooooooh so baddddddd detachable clip 99's. Hell, fellars I have all of the above and just thought they were 99's. Sooooooo if I understand correctly. The pre-mil's are better than the post-mil's? The old pre-mil 303-30's are wayyyyyyyyy coolllllllllllllllll now and my post-mils I have are just chitttt? .
99savage308
..NRA Life Member ..
.."There are only two things in life worth having. A woman from anywhere and a fine Swiss watch."..
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Only you know what you have so call them whatever you want.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
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Post mils shoot very well. I have a 358 Brush Gun that will beat out most bolts. But the old ones do have more class.
RAS
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
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Post-mils make fine hunting rifles and the clip model has the advantage over the pre-mils by having a clip rather than the rotary magazine which means the post-mil "C" models can be unloaded safely by simply removing the clip together with the live rounds in the clip and ejecting the round in the chamber. The pre-mils must "lever" each round through the receiver (but not necessarily into the rifle's chamber) causing unloading the rifle to take longer and be less convenient. Post-mils are well-made rifles compared with OTHER brands of rifles... just not quite as well-made as the pre-mils Savage Model 99s. So don't throw your post-mils away... they're still excellent hunting rifles and come in a wide variety of great hunting calibers, namely in .243 Winchester, .250 Savage, .300 Savage, .284 Winchester, .308 Winchester and .358 Winchester. I hope this explanation helps you more fully understand that even the post-mils are desireable rifles... just NOT as desireable as the pre-mils. Strength & Honor... Ron T.
It's smart to hang around old guys 'cause they know lotsa stuff...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
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Chill out, there, 99savage308. Lots of guys here have postmil 99's - I have a 1967 99DL in 284, because 284's were only made after 1960. And my first several deer seasons were spent with a 99C. They are what they are, and a LOT of them are great hunting rifles. It's what they were designed to be, and most do it very well.
But that being said... a pre-1960 Savage 99 in identical condition to a post-1960 Savage 99 is going to be worth a lot more if they are chambered for the same cartridge.
Just the same as the pre-64 Winchesters versus post-64 Winchesters.
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Post mils shoot very well. I have a 358 Brush Gun that will beat out most bolts. But the old ones do have more class.
RAS I'd love to have a Savage 99 358 Brush Gun. I really like both the 358 Winchester and the Savage 99 - it was a good marriage!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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About the only time I can think of when a clip-fed 99 has a distinct advantage over a rotary magazine is when one has to unload it in a big hurry. I can't think of an instance where that would be the case except maybe if you have a loaded 99 (bolt open) laying in the bed of a truck while eating your lunch, and a game warden is spotted coming down the road. Not that I would know about that. (Think Chuck Connors ripping through a magazine full with his lever action in "The Rifleman.")
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Campfire Outfitter
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About the only time I can think of when a clip-fed 99 has a distinct advantage over a rotary magazine is when one has to unload it in a big hurry. I can't think of an instance where that would be the case except maybe if you have a loaded 99 (bolt open) laying in the bed of a truck while eating your lunch, and a game warden is spotted coming down the road. Not that I would know about that. (Think Chuck Connors ripping through a magazine full with his lever action in "The Rifleman.") The other time when a clip-fed 99 has a distinct advantage is when ya need to slap a clip in for quick shot also!
�Can we move this along?" a bored voice stated. "I have places to be and people to shag."
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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About the only time I can think of when a clip-fed 99 has a distinct advantage over a rotary magazine is when one has to unload it in a big hurry. I can't think of an instance where that would be the case except maybe if you have a loaded 99 (bolt open) laying in the bed of a truck while eating your lunch, and a game warden is spotted coming down the road. Not that I would know about that. (Think Chuck Connors ripping through a magazine full with his lever action in "The Rifleman.") See, now.. we don't have that problem in Nebraska. Loaded rifles in your vehicle are perfectly legal during deer season if you have an unfilled permit. Legal the rest of the year regardless. Shotguns have to be unloaded, though, and that's a scary thing to watch somebody try to do quickly in confined quarters.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Huh. In Maryland you can be busted for even leaning a loaded rifle (magazine full) against a motor vehicle, even with the bolt open. Don't even think about shooting from a motor vehicle, even out in the middle of the woods. At least don't get caught.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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yeah, what gnoahhh said. In NY, loaded firearms are a big NO NO in any vehicle. I have a friend that got a ticket last Nov. because he leaned his loaded firearm against his ATV, and a game warden happened to be driving down the road at the same time. He wasn't even taking the ATV into the woods, he just needed his hands to zipper his jacket, but the GW didn't want to hear it.
and to the OP... Post-mil 99's just plain don't work. The bullets just bounce off the hides of game animals :-). Sorry, I couldn't help myself! Seriously, what others have said is true (about value and craftsmanship), but I own and hunt pre and post million s/n 99's and I think they are both great rifles.
Happy hunting. -TomT
"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Post mils are chitt and you are mandated to discard them immediately. You are ordered to ship them to a secure disposal unit, which just happens to resemble my gun safe. Here are your shipping instructions:
Savage Post mil Disposal c/o Hatari Atlanta, GA
Doing so quickly will save you from further public ridicule.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Post mils are chitt and you are mandated to discard them immediately. You are ordered to ship them to a secure disposal unit, which just happens to resemble my gun safe. Here are your shipping instructions: Savage Post mil Disposal c/o Hatari Atlanta, GA Doing so quickly will save you from further public ridicule. HOW MUCH IS THE DISPOSAL FEE ?
There is not enough darkness in all the world to put out the light of even one small candle----Robert Alden . If it wern't entertaining, I wouldn't keep coming back.------the BigSky
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Since I'm such a humanitarian, just stick in a $50 bill with each rifle.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Since I'm such a humanitarian, just stick in a $50 bill with each rifle. PM SENT
Endure Fortis Marte Suo Tutus
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Hahahahahahahahahahaha... at least we've got a good sense of humor, eh?!?
It's smart to hang around old guys 'cause they know lotsa stuff...
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