Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors O.T. 250 sav Pump Action

Just looked at the James Julia auction listing - partial picture of the pump in 250 Savage is shown - Marlin pump It has the special Swebilus rear sight which, if contemporary, would date it to around 1916 ~ 1920.

I'm not sure that's the one I remember or not. I do recall it was a Marlin pump in .250 with a box magazine. I seem to recall the prototype I saw (I only saw a photo) was more square as far as lines. This one is pretty neat. Gene - is this an old auction?

Here is the patent on the sight - (I spelled the name wrong on my previous post - I still don't think it's need the 2nd 'I' though ...sorry Gus)Swebilius sight August 1915

Here are some patents on the Marlin rifle including one for a semi-auto version, earliest 1914;
Patent 1
patent 2
patent 3
patent 4
patent 5

steve, I think its the upcoming October Julia's sale... FDR's Fox FE grade is going to be for sale!!! Likely to be the most expensive American made SxS to ever sell in the public view...

Drew - I know you are a Fox guy so I figure you will have to have FDR's gun. How could you ever forgive yourself if you don't bring it home?

Gene - you can always be counted on for the highly technical stuff. Very interesting. I like the sight detail but also interesting to note that they were working on both a pump and semi-auto version. A Marlin semi-auto in .250 circa around 1920 - what a deal. I want one! I often think that if I were to win a big powerball, I would be digging up patent drawings like this and commission the building of rifles that never got off the ground. This would be a neat example. There are patent drawings of rifles from John Browning, Andrew Burgess etc. that might have been really neat rifles. Another one I would have built would be one like the Savage .32/20 prototype

working on the home refinance paper work as we speak... already cashed in the 401K and sold my right kidney...I'm about a 1/4 of the way there...

Persistence wins the game. I'm estimating that Jackie's kidney will fetch more than yours?

her's has not filtered quite the load of "stuff" that mine has so its a little cleaner...and thus yeah, worth a bit more...

Johno - I did get a chance to go over to gunsinternational.com and took a look at all the Remington 14's and 141's listed there. What they heck - do these sellers think they have Savages or what? I was surprised at how pricey most were. Puglisi's had a, "clean" one for around $2500, LeRoy Merz had some showing some wear for about $1700. There were lesser ones there as well but it sure looks like when a guy finds a decent one of these priced reasonable, he would be wise to pick it up. By the way, I was reminded how much I like the M14 carbine. They didn't make a carbine (that I can recall) in the M141. Also, I like the M14 and 1/2 carbine real well too, but I didn't see any examples listed. How often do run into any of these pumps down your way?

Johno - by the way, did you do any shooting or hunting with that Colt Lightning you had?

AHHHHHHHH, clutches on ATVs "*&%$$#@

Feeling better now, she's back together and running well, just needed to share.

No I never hunted that rifle, I do think I sent you some photo's it was as close to a 90% carbine as you would find. Thing I should have taken it to the States to sell.

There is some beautifull rifles being posted here, I am gratefull the mods have let this O.T run, have'nt to well of late and this has been enjoyable.

Tell me what would the beaut marlin 250 pump be expected to sell for, a great deal me thinks.

If someone could provide a link to that auction i'd be gratefull, ive bee to the web site but can't get the catalogue.

It does seem mate that those rifles on guns international are over priced.

Johno

Johno -

Here is the highlight to the "selected highlights" section of the auction catalog. A lot of Dick Rohal's Marlins are featured in these highlight (remind me, I've got to go empty my drool bucket). As far as what that pump .250 will bring, I have no idea. This is an auction and desire, competition, ego and so on can all come into play. It just takes two guys who have to have it and have deep pockets. I would enjoy owing that rifle.

http://www.juliaauctions.com/auctions/div_catalog_296_sh.asp

Johno - where'd you go? Your off topic thread is going to hit 2500 views before too long By the way, the old Boltman suffered the agony of defeat this weekend. I was bidding on a rifle I had been searching for - for over 30 years. It is a vintage American pump rifle and it is a .50 caliber and it's NOT a Colt. Who here has one?

If that ever happens here are some more for you to make!!!

These would be of interest to Savage collectors to make -
Savage toy gun For those with kids...
Double barrel '99' For Drew (the double barrel guy) and those who use their 410 barrels but would rather not have to swap them in and out. This was designed to disengage the bolts from the lever so that either side could be fired and cycled independant of the other or together if both side had been fired...if the breech bolts are disengaged when loaded - how do you unchamber a live round???? I'll have to read more of the patent, and I find them hard to read.
Pump action roughly based on a 99

Here a couple you would probably NOT want to make--
??????? for the musky fisherman who still wants to dispatch his catch with a pistol but doesn't want to be easily busted...
Buglar Alarm
revolver This one from 1909 is referenced by four other patents from 1977 to 2003

...and here are some pump rifles, 1895 to 1910 - no shotguns - no major manufacturer (no manufacurer period, for most!!!)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13

Holy smoke Gene! Lots to digest here. I am thinking though my powerball pick will be the double barrel M99. I have seen one Burgess made up similar to that - shotgun action/barrel oneside; rifle action/barrel other side. (I'd better run out and buy a couple extra tickets).

Gene, is it just me or does it seem that when the task of entering all that pat. info was done, many of the firearms related items where miss spelled in such a way to make them hard to find.

Maybe if I searched for other types of patents I would find its not just gun stuff and I could put my tinfoil hat away.


Steve, I hope you havnt run out of OT guns to show us, Ive been enjoying your pictures and thinking about what you said at the fest about how as a child you ate gun catalogs.

Gary - here is an off-topic rifle for you to puzzle over. Here's an initial picture:

Is this the one you didnt get today?

Actually they spell beter than I do - I just write my posts in WORD and use the spell checker before I post (I actually do!)

Seriously though all US patents before 1976 are only stored as scanned .tif files and not as text. GOOGLE uses text recognition software to try to decipher it, if you look at some of the stored scans they are not very clear of sharp, the software will read specks of dirt as part of a letter and miss light or missing areas - for example a B with a faded bottom will be read as a P, a P with a speck of dirt a B, a K could end up being read as a R, P, B, or b. You can see the problem. Most of the patents I have, I stored as pictures about 3 years ago from the US patent site, I filtered out just gun patents - their site is harder to use initially but makes it much faster to view patents once you have some filtered out. This is from their web site with the restrictions for the early patents -
"Patents from 1790 through 1975 are searchable only by Issue Date, Patent Number, and Current US Classification. When searching for specific numbers in the Patent Number field, patent numbers must be seven characters in length, excluding commas, which are optional"

You also must have a program capable of reading .tif files - they have a link to a couple of free ones which is what I used.

I recently tried to find a patent using just the date - there were 850+ patent assigned on that one day!!! I filter out the firearms patents and ended up with 3 but none of them were the ones, don't think just having a patent date will make finding a paticular patent easy!

I only use the Google site to relookup patents I had already found and then post that link because it does not require a special viewer.

Gene

As long as we are looking at pumps, here are some more Marlins - 22's though. 2nd up from the bottom is a model 32 and has the Swebilius rear sight - standard on those, pre WWI - it was also used for a short time after WWI on early model 38's, all I have seen with it are Marlin-Rockwell stamped. Those sights are very easily broken and many you see will be damaged (not that you really see many!).