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I do have a M1887 shotgun here and have owned several M1887 and M1901's in the past. It would have never occurred to me to compare the actions of those two firearms (to an Evans). I really wasn't joking when I said you knew my guns better than I do

I can see how if you have studied these designs as closely as you have, the originality and "genius" of some of these famous inventors starts to fade a bit.

A true genius will see the value of someone elses idea and use what is best for the application - someone who always has to be different does not always have the best idea. I learned a long time ago when doing factory work that some of the people that were not considered geniuses came up with the best and easiest ways to do things because they looked at the problem in a different and maybe much simpler way - whenever I saw a better idea I would use it and give full credit to the person no matter what I thought of them.

Well put Gene. Even though it is admirable, it doesn't seem that giving credit is a requisite aspect of "genuis."

15 pages, over 3000 views.

Is this the longest off topic, that went off topic and continues to go off topic thread that we have ever had? Been fun, learnt lots about guns I knew nothing about.

Johno

Im going to give ya a scenario that is so far off topic it has made me drink a nice glass of bourbon.

Imagine someone backed into your wifes car and their trailer hitch punctured her A/C condenser.

Imagine to save 700.00 you bought a used condenser, put it in and charged the A/C by yourself for 145.00 total and felt peaty good because it worked just like it should.

Imagine you took it for a test ride and as you backed out of the driveway you didnt see the bike you son left out.

Imagine you popped two tires running over the bike.

Saved enough doing the A/C to buy tires.

Rant over, carry on :)Gulp, Gulp



I am enjoying Steve and Gene's passion for collecting and knowledge of these rare firearms. Thanks Guys for sharing.

boltman
I can help with an early Evans rifle or a much lighter Evans carbine for your long trip.

Could this be inspiration for a T shirt?
You could have a pic on the front of the hitch going through the condenser. Then on the back the rear wheels going over the bike.

Sorry just could'nt leave that alone,somewhere in all that is a plus,i'm sure of it. I really am sure

Johno

Fug - the lighter carbine would be much appreciated. I'm not quite sure when my journey will start so best I get the Evans here sooner rather than later. I would enjoy the lighter weight for sure.

Gary - your story sure reminds me of another recent story posted here - Kenster and his $250 M99H recent purchase which resulted in a $5000 trip to the emergency room. And he didn't even fire it! I think Johno's idea for a T-shirt would work really well for that one too. Kenster did supply a nice picture.

Johno - it has been a long haul but the road still seems open ahead to me. I've got to do some digging here but I've got something in my files (somewhere - pre-computer) that I think I might even be able to stump Gene with. Maybe.

A recent comment made to me by Gene reminded me of how much I have wanted a Roper shotgun during my collecting career. This in turn reminded me of my long-term desire for a Blake rifle. If you can find a Blake rifle (with the original magazine) you really have something. Sadly, I have neither a Roper or a Blake to photograph

Steve , there is a shot of the Roper action here

scroll down

another here

and some nice ones of the whole gun

Very nice Gary. This shotgun is not only the first repeating shotgun, but the first shotgun with a screw-in choke (way before it became fashionable). So, who here has one?

No photos of the blake but this 1895 recreation magazine has a article on how it works with some good diagrams and also a ad for the rifle company. Kinda like a bolt action 99

google books article

blake at rockisland

Yes, the Blake does bear some resemblance to the Savage '99 - a bolt action version with a rotary style magazine, with the magazine of course being detachable. I like that it is an eight shot repeater . I have always found it a very interesting rifle. Occasionally I have seen one offered for sale - usually from a high dollar auction house. The last one that tempted me had quite a bit of finish but it was missing the magazine and that was a real deal-breaker for me. Thanks for the diagram and pictures Gary.

Are you looking for a Blake in .236, .300 or .400? - actually I had no idea what a Blake was until I did a search after your post..and found this; http://www.cabincreekcds.com/BlakeRifle1897.htm This info had me confused at first - the schematics shown are not of a Blake.

Gene

Gene - when it comes to Blake rifles, one shouldn't be too fussy. Of course, I want a .400, but mainly I want one with the detachable rotary magazine - preferably two of them . I think given the rotary magazine function of the Blake, it may be an off-topic rifle, but it sure is close. Be pretty neat if they had made it in .250-3000 but they were long gone before that cartridge came along. By the way, the schematics shown in your link are confusing as they show a tube-fed rifle. Maybe there were other versions of the Blake I was unaware of.

Gene - did you see this link from Gary:

http://books.google.com/books?id=GE...=onepage&q=Blake%20rifle&f=false

It shows the mechanism quite well. They state this is the first magazine of its type. One wonders if Arthur Savage handled a blake rifle at one time. I think Blakes came into production in 1892 - so right in the vicinity of the Savage .30/40 prototype I believe. And, curiously enough, in .30/40.

Yes; I saw Gary's link - and Gary, I always check your links out. The link I gave shows magazines other than the Blake and from what I could gather they are included in the CD as examples of what else was being used when Blake's design came out. I started looking for the patents for the Blake and from the date you gave me I am getting close.

While doing that I did find another interesting pump action rifle - it's a revolving pump action with electric firing and a tube magazine to feed the cylinder...wonder why these never became popular.....? electric firing pump action I believe Remington tried electric ignition a few years ago and I think it was still a flop.

Very nice Standard Arms. Mine isn't in quite as nice shape. Model M (pump only) in 30 Rem. One thing I've noticed is every one I've seen had extra nice wood in the but stock.
Doc

I saw a standard arms rifle the other day in the Ft .Nelson heritage museum in British Columbia, It was in a rack of really beat old rifles.I think an old trapper had it, or one of the guys building the Alcan highway. Don