Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Greybull Precision in action

I know this will stir a hornets nest. We are becoming shooters not hunters. If your a 1000 yards away, how many folks are you shooting over the top of who are trying to hunt. Other than that, nice shooting.

Have no opinion one way or the other with the exception of the Grizzly. Things go wrong at distance and you don't recover, the next poor soul out that way may pay for your mistake. And distance gets factored into recovery when things go wrong.

If you can do it, great. Not my way, but that means nothing.

i guess if your not a good enough hunter to get within a couple hundred yards of your game, you have to take long shots.

John Burns knows what he is doing! Use the same techniques on P. dogs and chucks.

Lead them to water, John! Some of them will drink!

Thanks for the great video!

Mr. Burns is all about shot placement, not shooting center of mass.

The campfire forum afterall has this area titled, HUNTING and SHOOTING......

They are different and everyone chooses how they define hunting.

I posted comments under the gunwriter's section, ETHICS OF LONG RANGE SHOOTING.."

No doubt J. Burns knows about long range.

Is there something on that scope that let's one dial in for:

Wind that is present and ever changing from the shooter to the target?

Game that is or may move during the shot cycle?

Uphill/Downhill angles that drastically affect POI?

Those 3 variables throw a wrench into these long range systems.

So long as one understands that, and realizes it's not just 'aim, squeeze, GUARANTEED clean kill' then they will perhaps be more effective.

3:50 into this video proves your point...not my cup of tea.
P Dogs & chucks I can understand...

He may well be...but how many of his "customers" aren't???
I can think on a few people I know who'd buy into the idea that they could pull that chit off just because they have the cash to do so...

Those same people are likely going to shoot at the running deer through brush, take the shot when all they see is an eye, and to take other low probability shots. A slob is a slob whether at short range or long.

I don't think anyone can control there customers. I have been in walmart on the friday night before deer season (dark outside) and seen alot of guys buying new deer rifles and having them bore sighted so they would be ready for the next morning. Should walmart quit selling deer rifles two weeks before season so they will be sighted in?

Dink

Valid point...those same guys would probably try shooting those same rifles at the same ranges as the Greybulls too...

Or if you're not a good enough shot you have to try and sneak closer.

It's all about practice building confidence.

MiddleMiner, re: "I can think on a few people I know who'd buy into the idea that they could pull that chit off just because they have the cash to do so...

Just think if someone like Donald Trump wanted to hang a trophy on his wall and did not even have time to hunt. Enough money, you could have someone get out in the field, set up a rifle in a High Tech gun rest, let Donald use a 'joy stick' to aim the rifle as viewed on a computer moniter and electronically fire the gun and get his trophy, never leaving his office. Then the animal could go to the taxidermist and his trophy shipped to him.

I thought that idea might appeal to a few that 'can pay' even if they cannot go.

To each their own.

Maybe my state unfortunately has a disproportionate share of hunters who lack knowledge and range time. I know I have seen it at the range, in the field, and hear about it often. I wish to improve their skills and success in clean kills. Guys I know wound and lose deer yet don't invest time learning how to shoot so when they do, often things go awry and nice animals are lost. And as others have posted, YES, sadly they do happen at close range shots as well, all the more reason in my mind LR shooting needs to be done w/thought, and range time investment.

I am confident members on the board shoot more than the average hunter, and KNOW their limits. I am confident in my ability, but also recognize variables that affect real field conditions and outcomes, so am conservative, as that is just my personal view on things.

Now, where to get started on my new business venture.... besides the high tech computer controlled rifle, maybe I should become a long range rifle instructor Seems to be a demand and need.

What really pisses me off is that a lot of supposed really learned forum members are down on their knees slurping up the drippings from a guy marketing them a bill of goods....
They should KNOW better...no longer will I accept verbatim ANY advice offer here...some of the members here I've seen drinking this kool-aid astounds me...& VERY few have offered up any rebuttal at all...oooh-ahhhhh...yeah I seen you on TV...you're a god...whoops...he's also a paid advertiser on the forum???? My bad...NO!!! IMO he's trying to mass market long range hunting to people who have no clue or desire to put in the requisite number of hours of practice required to make the shots on video that he's made....ohhh.....what???? Video editing???? How many shots did he muff???....Nah...he couldn't have muffed ANY...he's JBurns...keep drinking dipchits.... While you're at it, send him 5K for one of his "systems"...see how much you get for it from the classifieds....Sorry Rick...IMO this guy is a jackass...this will be my last response to any of his posts...
Tom

Good.

One can only hope. I'll bet you can't shoot for chit, can ya?

Burns put together a TEN HOUR video series during which he states about a thousand times that you gotta get hundreds and hundreds of quality rounds downrange to make this stuff happen. Then he explains in detail how to get it done, with a factory Remington 700.

Hmmmmm........off the med's again!!!! I can't afford to buy anything from Mr. Burns but his video's so he does not owe me anything. I have seen in the past Mr. Burns answer just about any question that is asked of him and he knows the guys asking can't afford to buy anything but his video's. There are alot of rifleman on this forum that know alot more about long range shooting than I do and I ask all the questions I can. Not one time did any of them tell me to go get [bleep]. Man there is alot to learn here if you just get over your ego or stupidness.

Dink

John Burns is not an idiot, and he is not spinning any BS at all.

With what he teaches you, a you would be surprised what a bedded, and freefloated Rem 700 can do in 243 or 7 Mag....kinda like discovering an indoor toilet when you have been using an out house all your life.

Dink
+1!

Well...here's my "read" on it FWIW which is not really much at all...I am not up for a butt kickin'and would ordinarily avoid it like the plague but here goes...

"Distance" has always been the hobgoblin of riflemen clear back to the blackpowder era;how we deal with distance and wind in our attempts to hit things.I'm sure in the foggy past as we moved from the bowling ball trajectory days of the 45-70 and 45-90 to the "flat trajectory" of that new fangled 30-30(which allowed hunters of that day to hit farther away with a dead on hold,that the BP boys were making noises about what and what wasn't "sporting"

Then came stuff like the 30/06,7x57, etc which we know allowed us to hit farther...and I remember that JOC wrote that he bought one of the first M54 270's that allowed him to hit(with the receiver sights of the day)anything he could see with the naked eye due to the flat trajectory of the 270.To an iron sight shooter, I'm sure such stuff seemed like magic.....meanwhile the BP holdovers were likely moaning and wailing about hunting going to hell in a handbasket.....

The we fast forward through the 30's, 40's and 50's to the magnum craze where everyone from Elmer Keith,JOC, Page,Weatherby,etc touted the flat shooting characteristics of various cartridges that allowed a longer point blank range so we could deal with the uncertainty of "distance".Elmer wrote of wiping Stone Sheep of a mountain side 500 yards out....and Page and O'Connor talked off snuffing elk with Les Bowman in Wyoming in high basins with Mashburns and 270's;Jobson wrote of killing a large bull moose with a 600 yard hold..

..some might have thought such shooting reckless and unsportsmanlike at the time, but these guys likely knew what they were doing with the gear they had available...in any event I don't recall them being unduly ridiculed at the time for such shots...in fact the majority of us emeulated wht they did by buying and using the same rifles and cartridges they pushed for the purpose....in any event we could see that the envelope had been pushed far beyond what the BP boys likely thought "sporting" in 1894.......

For a lot of years we used velocity to cheat gravity,and still do today to some extent,and to provide the bullet upset at distances to create sufficiently large wounds to kill effectively at distances we only dreamed about 50 years ago...and today we have LRF's and better scopes that track reliably and allow us to see better.This with sleek,wind cleaving,gravity defying bullets,and generally more accurate rifles with the knowledge to use them....so this is where we are...the envelope has been extended and where it stops I really don't know, but human beings seemingly always driven to test themselves and their tools, I don't see an end in sight yet..,

Through all of this advancement in technology, the one thing that remains constatnt(or inconsistent)is the skill of the user.Without sufficient experience and expertise of the users,the tools are useless...

Biggest question in my mind is..."What is the effect on game,and our oppourtunity to hunt it?"

As we become more successful at the use of the technology,likely our chances to pursue it will become less frequent and this is a trend already seen in limited quota draws for rifle hunting vs over the counter license sales for bow hunters,and iron sighted muzzleloaders.

The lesser technology makes us less succesful over all,so more get to participate.Those sheep killed on the video aren't on a special draw for nothing.....and I bet that if we all had to use iron sights during the Colorado deer season, residents would not have to be on a draw......

So as I see it while the advancement in technology makes us more likely to be successful in times of limited licenses and shorter seasons,and dwindling game supplies and greater demand, there may be a tug-of-war going on to eventually downgrade the technology to provide more opportunity for more folk.Certainly a balance is going to be reached at some point,and maybe it has already....I dunno.

Humans being humans there will be those who will buy in to the gear and the practice of LR shooting who have neither the facilities to practice, nor the inclination(as in "lazy")but fully expect the reults, so they will try with abysmal results,and either miss, or "worse", wound,which,even though we all know it happens,is or should be, unacceptable.

This is not the fault of Greybull Precision nor other makers of LR shooting gear anymore than it is the "fault" of the SUV manufacturer that some clown drove one through the front window of McDonalds.