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Originally Posted by Matt in Virginia

Dunno why anyone would not make the move to a First Focal Plan Miliradian Based Reticle, .1 Miliradian Clicks, and a proper Zero Stop to circumvent the importance of 1/3 MOA Clicks and the 20 MOA Revolution. You've built a system around a set of chamberings/load parameters that could have just as easily been done with an off the shelf Miliradian based Reticle with intuitive .1 Miliradian based clicks, and AGAIN gain a proper zero stop.

You can charge more when you reinvent the wheel.


From Lowlight on Snipers Hide:
Originally Posted by Lowlight

So what do you tell the guy who traveled 1200 miles to take a class.. he paid $1500 for the class, plus rental car, hotels, meals, and by the first day it fails... now he goes from what he thought was a solid optics with a stellar reputation to being the guy holding up the class while we run up, get a new scope for him, usually I am pulling one of my NF off to switch it for him. If you want to play the one up and working, the NF I use is heavily used, my S&Bs too, and guess what, of all of them, with more combined rounds than I can count, and only one scope has ever gone back for repair. They well worn and definitely show signs of use.

yes, other brands fail, but not nearly with the frequency as we are seeing with Leupold. it's every week in some cases, and even in the military classes we have Nightforce on the unit rifles next to Leupold... but I don't see the NF failing nearly as much, it's stark the reality of it, especially when you see more than 1 or 2 a week.

It's easily 20 to 1 when you compare the Nightforces on the line with the military units, this last class had 4 Leupolds on the line, 1 failed the first day, the remainders where USO, NF, and S&B... Do we see others fail, sure but not nearly as much.

If you want to start a generic scope failure thread go ahead, but don't be surprised by the results. Facts are what the facts are, in a class of 15 Leupolds on the line I expect and account for anywhere from 2 to 5 scopes to go down, I don't figure that with the same number of NF on the line. Its closer to 1 per every six months of classes, not 1 for every six people.




dave


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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Well Matt I will make a short list of your mistakes:

1. I never said the block was �revolutionary� it just has some advantages

2. Our scope is way more than slightly massaged

3. You probably are right that you don�t know the advantages of using MOA instead of Miliradians.

4. We don�t use a ballistic cheat sheet

5. Do you have a GA precision with the S&B that could be considered a hunting rifle and would you be willing to have a little competition against one of my systems?

6. We don�t use dual dovetails

7. The factory BDL floorplate is aluminum not �pot metal�

8. If our system is a known quantity please show me videos showing this to be true

You are right about the 264 Win Mag with the VLD but I would bet you have never used the combo yourself.

Hopes this helps out smile


Mr. Burns,
I had hoped that you were a Gentleman and might respond without any undue rancor. Unfortunately I was mistaken and you've choosen to respond in a manner that says a good deal about you.

1. I apologize for using "revolutionary". It might have been been more productive to list the advantages your system offers.

2. In what way is your scope "way more" than slightly massaged?

3. I'll take your word for it that I don't know the advantages of using MOA versus Milliradians.

4. I do apologize for using the term "ballistic cheat sheet". I meant to indicate a computer generated drop and drift sheet that you had confirmed in the field.

5. I have a GA Precision Rifle or two, amongst others, however, I can't think of anything on par with your rifle. Further I know, without debate, I don't have any optical gear in the same ballpark as your Custom Leupold.

6. I apologize about misidentifying the Dual Dovetails. They are good mounts for the money and the mounts on your rifle look similar from a distance.

7. I should have said aluminum. You are quite right yet again.

8. "If our system is a known quantity please show me videos showing this to be true"(.) I don't know that your rifle is a "known quantity" and as far as I am aware you've already posted numerous videos. The same videos I complimented you on in the initial post.

9. You are quite right. I have never used the .264 Winchester Magnum with or without VLD projectiles. I had hoped you would share a bit more information about the combination.

Unfortunately I can't say that your response helped out. I found you to be rude, combative, assumptive, and generally thought the entire response could be said to have talked down to the audience. All in all I consider it, fwiw, an opportunity lost on your behalf. Not to mention making it clear how you conduct yourself and hence your business. Unless I miss my guess you're mouth will be the greatest hinderance to your success.

I look forward to watching you win over the boards...

Best Regards, Matt Garrett





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He wonders why no one takes him up on the "challenge".

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Not everyone is a born salesman.


And not everyone is born a tool and die maker either.

So what.

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Has that photo been downsampled to a lower number of pixels than before?

Still bogus as when it first appeared.

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Matt,

Didn't mean to be rude or show any rancor. You asked me to point out you mistakes when you provided an unsolicited critque of my products.

I did and now I am the bad guy? Heck I even used one of those smiley faces smile


John Burns

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A peek through a 4-16X56 Hensoldt....Ok you mildot guys, how far?

Remember, the Vector never lies.....(grin)

Last edited by scenarshooter; 11/03/10.

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Velvet bull from this summer...

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One of my favorites..as seen through a S&B 4-16X50 PMII GenII


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The size paradox...is it a small deer at a short range, or a larger deer further away???

But take heart, we are not the only ones to ponder lifes mysteries (from about the 30 second point)

Small or Far Away???

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5-25X56 S&B PMII25X. It's a coyote. Notice the the bolt handle is down..about 700 meters out.


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Originally Posted by Pete E
The size paradox...is it a small deer at a short range, or a larger deer further away???

But take heart, we are not the only ones to ponder lifes mysteries (from about the 30 second point)

Small or Far Away???


Exactly why I dont leave home without the Vector.


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Too small....fun though. And way harder than just shooting them. Taking through the scope pics of critters that is...


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And way harder than just shooting them. Taking through the scope pics of critters that is


In your pictures the things outside of but nearby the scope are in focus.

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I've spent all of my extra money on rifles and scopes instead of my camera....


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I'm not commenting negatively on your camera in any way. My point is your pictures are fair to the scopes.

The pic (not yours) I've been bulldogging is like a shot of a TV screen allegedly showing how bad the TV's picture is, but the stuff in the cabinet right next to the TV is fuzzy and out of focus. The "evidence" of the TV being bad is no good.

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No harm done....I only post in here to have fun and bs with other hunter guys.


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Your pics are fantastic and speak for themselves as to your hunting ability. I always look to see what you've posted. Keep it up.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Quote
I only post in here to have fun and bs with other hunter guys.


You get out there and do some really neat stuff, and so do a lot of the other guys.

I'm a casual hunter. I get out to a stand well before it's light and see if a deer I'd like to shoot will amble by. grin

But even with my casual style I've been able to observe how different scopes perform under a lot of light and atmospheric conditions.

I try to be as honest as I can, so the touting of obviously flawed evidence bugged me.

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