Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ask John Barsness Questions About "GETTING THE MOST OUT OF YOUR .30-06"

Thanks guys, I love the partitons and was interested in cranking the 220s up a notch. Was looking for some encouragement from anyone who got the Noslers to shoot well in the 2550-2600fps range. Maybe my Winchester barrel just doesn't like 'em. I've a Sako I may switch to, I'll give them a run in that and maybe I'll have better luck.

Thanks Again:)

The best news is that there are very few animals on this earth that can stop them.

JW

Using 4831 SC in the O6 I have been able to push the Nosler 220 grainers past 2600 fps. on another site several years ago, one of the forum members was asking about the max punch capable out of the O6...that peaked my interest, so I looked over tons of reload data and was noticing the low pressure of "max loads" using 4831 SC...and then higher charges used in old reload data...

So I got some surprising MVs out of an Enfield using tht powder and 200 and 220 grain bullets.... so I worked up and tried them in my Model 70, a Browning A Bolt, a Remington 700 and ended up with close to the same results..22 to 26 inch barrels...

I shared them with the forum and got flamed for pages upon pages...a few of the critics I asked if they were flaming me for having different results than 'they read about' or had they actually tried working up and seeing what they got..

well a few hardy souls actually quit being armchair ballisticians and went out and worked it up and behold got pretty much the same results.. so when they shared it they also got flamed..

critics were screaming about "pressure testing equipment????" and claiming the results must be having pressures that approach 80 and 90 thousand CUPS.. and my local range was looking at being the next Hiroshima when my 06 exploded and was telling me of all the people I was going to be responsible for killing and blinding post such irresponsible load data..

Finally one guy came on and supported what I had posted, and made the statement that ' one can not get enough 4831 SC in an 06 case to cause excessive and dangerous pressures'..

of course he became the next target for all the arm chair ballistics experts...with their immediate questions about "DID HE HAVE ANY PRESSURE TESTING EQUIPMENT TO SUPPORT HIS CLAIMS???"

His casual response was " well yes I do! If anyone wants to call me at my office phone and discuss this, please feel free to.." and he gave his phone number to call...and to ask for his name..

I noticed it had a 541 area code, just like mine here in Oregon...so I gave it a call... the operator answered " Hello, NOSLER Bullets, how may I direct your call??"

So I spoke to the gentleman, who was in their ballistic dept..

As soon as it was pointed out by others who had supported me, and had been flamed by the 'expert' crowd, that the gentleman who had made that statement was from Nosler bullets....the critics suddenly got awfully quiet....in less than 24 hours, that 30 or so page thread went from the hot topic, to being on page 3 or 4.. and in 48 hours was like page 10 in the archives..

I pass this on out of interest to those here that are looking at max results potential.. that is what I found when the question peaked my curiosity..

I'm a BIG fan of 220 grain RNs in the 06 and definitely a big fan of the 220 grain SMP partition...

I have found that RL 22 and H 4831 SC will get the 220s to 2600 and a bit more.. I've also found H 4831 SC had more lot to lot consistency than RL 22 and was continually more accurate with 200 to 220 grain bullet weights with max velocity out of all 4 brands of rifles I had chambered in 30/06.. and including the same out of several other friends rifles including a couple more different brands on top of that..

( and if someone desires even more punch using the 220 grain partition, worked that bullet up in a 300 Win Mag case to producing 2950 fps out of a 26 inch barrel..and a friend did the same in a 300 Weatherby.. both of us using H 1000 in that instance..) but that's another story.. this is an 06 thread...

but ya know.. getting the most out of your 06, to me includes the flexibility of say the use of 125 grain TNTs at 1500 fps or less also... and I work a bunch with stuff like that..I like to know the flexibility parameters of any cartridge I shoot..

( NB.. not trying to paint myself to compete with Mule Deer's esteemed experiences here.. just sharing some of mine on the thread since some questions were asked and I have some experience to specifically offer...)

thanks for that
wonderful to see these kinds of posts; they're a big part of why i follow these forums

Now that's what I'm talking about!! You just opened a door for my beloved '06 and I greatly appreciate you sharing:)

I had no problem finding advocats for pushing a 220 bullet based on published load data or based on shooting a different manufactured bullet, but I had absolutely zero luck finding a single sole who had success pushing this particular Partition with any accuracy. I'm a member of several forums, to include Nosler's, and all I found was dead silence with a few crickets in the background:) Yes Sir, I'm in lock step agreement with your sentiments, and speaking for me, this will add another dimension to my '06.

Could you post a link to that thread?

Thanks!

GaryVA,

If you send a PM to Phil Shoemaker who posts here as 458Win I am sure he would kindly give you info on loading 220 gr NPs as I have read some of his lines discussing this combo in the 06.

However, since the NP tends to shed the front section by design I wonder if penetration may not be better if velocity is kept at around 2400 fps?

Has anyone tested this?

Nosler Partitions tend to penetrate deeper the faster they're driven. This is true of just about any bullet that pretty much retains the same expanded shape.

The bullets that don't penetrate as much at higher impact velocities are those that expand wider the harder they hit.

I just shot a group with the 220 gr. NP that went one inch at 100 yds. in my '06. It's a custom 98 Mauser. My iron sighted, Remington 760 pump regularly shoots one inch groups at 50 yuds. The load I use for both is 57 grs. of H4831SC, WW cases and WLR primners. E

Thanks, that looks like an old standard velocity load.

I checked around and found that for a very short time Nosler published and recommended the heavier compressed loadings using the short cut grain 4831SC. Nosler Reloading Guide (5th edition) 220 grain Nosler Partition load data:

H-4831sc was the most accurate powder tested,
65.0 grs H-4831sc; MV=2645fps (listed as MAX load)

But for whatever reason, the later 6th edition makes no mention whatsoever of using the SC powder for a faster load. The heavier load SC data evaporated and everything has gone back to the older standard velocity load data using the current lots of powder. Has the specs on the SC powder changed over the older lots? I don't have the #6 Guide, is there more data in the #6 book than Nosler has on the web site? Just seems odd for such a quick change in recommended powder.

Thanks:)

I may need to call Nosler and ask a tech before I start spending money buying more powder.

The discrepancies and inconsistencies in reloading manuals is so common as to be a uniform problem for the handloader who "wants to know".

Because no-one has your rifles but you, the only way to know what is best is the chronograph "your" rifles. For me, someone elses data is simply that. That is the reason you will see a great load and then that obviously well suited to that case and bullet weight and inexplicably, dopped from the next weight listings. That can be a frustration but does not discount its value with a powder weight change to the appropriate bullet weight.

The manual writers know that they cannot provide data for every powder option so at best, a reloading manual is just a synopsis, or overview on what you can expect.

The fact that if you have a chronograph, you will note discrepancy in your own numbers using the printed loads just validates the requirements for a chronograph as part of load development.

I personnly have not seen a better powder that 760/H414 for the .30/06 and slower powders have "not" beaten this powder regardless of bullet weight. It also produces tremendous accuracy.

The next best powder in my experience is H 4350 or IMR 4350 followed by 4320 and Rel 15 which are progressively faster, not slower as most people indicate should be the powder options to try.

Now, when the powders become faster, the pressures become more critical to monitor as you can get spikes more easily and the lattitudes become smaller. With a slower powder, you may notice only slight velocity or pressure increases with an extra grain of powder compared with faster powders where you may see the same increaes with half grain increments so it is important to "learn" powder burning rate characteristics.

When you are in the right area, a change of primer can also spike, tune or detune a load so you are in an area that requires more finness and absorbtion of what you are seeing in handloading.

Because the requirement is 2600fps from a 220 grain bullet, it is high end performance from the '06 case with that bullet weight. An experienced hunters will tell you that there is no discernable difference between 2500fps and 2600fps with that bullet so in the end you want it because you want it.

I just wanted to highlight the "goal" and reinforce the independency from "need". It is a preference and that is ok as long as the baggage that comes with it is also accepted.

Several powders will comfortably get you into the 2550fps range and I have seen many a .5 MOA group shot at that velocity.

John

Since we are discussing the 220 gr bullet, here is some info on the Remington factory load, 220 gr Core-Lokt Soft Point #R30067:

Claimed velocity: 2410 fps.
Velocity in my 24" Springfield: 2394 fps.

Rick Jamison shot some for an article through his rifle equipped with a pressure transducer (I don't recall his barrel length).

His results were 2356 fps at 53,300 psi.

It appears there is definately room to improve on the factory load if one desires to.

Sunday I tried a load of 180 gr Nosler partitions over 58 gr of Ramshot Hunter. (W_W brass, WLR primers)In 4 different rifles (3 Winchesters, 1 Remington), all were under 1" for 3-shot groups at 100 yards. Dod not chrono.
I think I found my bear load.

Boring old '06 - Well here's my story, pulled the old '06 (Pre War M-70 my grandfather won in a big buck contest and handed down to me before he died 30 years ago) out of the safe, ran some dry patches through it, took it to the desert and fired a shot at 100 yards. About 1/2" high of dead center in a 2"x2" flo-orange square. Next shot in line about 1/2" right (I pulled that one a bit). Close enough, I'm sure I could have shot all day and put them all in that square, but I only have about 20 rounds left and wanted a few to hunt with. On to the next weekend, I used one more of my rounds on this Idaho 3x4. This is the kind of performance I have come to appreciate from the '06. I load 165gr Hornady BTSP's over 58.5gr of H4350 in Rem. brass w/ CCI primers about every 3 or 4 years and kill Deer and Elk until I run out and then do it again.

John B,
I'm a new member here and have enjoyed this thread and your article. I have not handloaded in years but used to for the old euro military rounds. Now that I got a brand new 30/06 I'm excited to start loading again. Those old Mausers and Swiss rifles have gotten too heavy for me!

Anyway, I hunt northern Michigan that offers shots any where from 200 yards to as close as 10 feet. I have 2 boxes of 30 cal Hornady 165gr SP Interlocks that I want to use. I'm thinking, from reading these last 25 pages, that the 180gr RN would be a better choice for the close shots. What do you think?

My powders on hand are H4350 and H4895.

It's a great cartridge. I knocked off a cull buck with mine last fall.

It would probably be a BIG JOB to haul off all the empty '06 brass I've fired over a 60 year span in two 18 wheelers....hunting rounds fired and years and years of NRA HP competitive shooting! I have fired many 'clean' scores shooting NM M1 and bolt rifles from the 1000 yard line and I have taken mulies and whitetails both, on several occasions beyond 800 yards. Many thousands of rounds of '06 were fired when I shot with the US Army Rifle Team and all of our guys on the team knew that if they did their part...the '06 round would deliver great accuracy! It has consistently done this for me over 60 years and if the truth were known....if more folks shot the 30/06 cartridge...as well as the .308 Win cartridge....they'd probably be a helluva lot more game taken home!!

Gawd I love this stuff! Way to go centershot!

Yep...I have used my pre-64 Model 70 in 30-06 to take 26 of NA 29 big game animals...Dr JY Jones used his '06 to take all 29......as JOC once said about the ol' 06..."This may not be a fasionable round any more but it's the worldwide workhorse...and will be doing it's stuff for a long, long, time"

OU: How very true!What two animals do you need to take to complete the North American slam?

I have actually completed the NA 29 twice...using my 270, 30-06, 300 Wby and 375 H&H..the 3 animals I need to complete the NA 29 with the '06 are Grizzly, Alaskan Brown Bear and Polar Bear..