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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
SU Good post..Seriously!! ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/jaycocreek/icon_thumright.gif) Jayco
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,905 Likes: 13 |
Man,theirs a ton of watchers, just listening, yet unwilling to jump into a fire and get bashed as the net does by 50 year olds knowing more than almost 80 years olds,both doing the same thing but the older longer. I respect my elders, and I value the experience of others. But will you acknowledge that it's in the realm of possibility that thirty years of experience could be one year thirty times over?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,946 Likes: 27
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
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I do know Ray and visited with him at his home as well as at various SCI shows. He is not a rich man nor a crook but someone who thought he could moonlight some as a booking agent and maybe parlay that into some good hunting. There are a lot of folks doing that part time and from my experience Ray was a lot more honest and trust worthy than most of those. Like most older honest folks Ray tended to take folks at face value - so if some outfitter told Ray he had numerous world record trophy's on his place- Ray would believe him. I know he got burned on a few African deals due to this tendency.
Just as there are numerous crooked booking agents in the business taking advantage of both hunters and guides, there are crooked outfitters who take advantage of agents and hunters.
Sure Ray liked the attention he got from this forum - who of us honestly doesn't ? - and he may have embellished some things - that is also a common theme here - but he really does have a lot of experience and knowledge.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,270 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,270 Likes: 13 |
I'd never judge a man till i got to know him personally myself
God bless Texas-----------------------
Old 300
I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull
Its not how you pick the booger..
but where you put it !!
Roger V Hunter
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
I'd never judge a man till i got to know him personally myself Agreed. Ray lives just down the road from me. I have never met the man personally, but I hear good things about him from the locals. FWIW.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,581
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,581 |
Let he is without sin.....
I tend to stay out of these things. I don't know Ray. Have had a nice personal response from him once. This board is a pleasant diversion. It saddens me when things go down the crapper for any-one. Maybe this thread has run it's course?
Last edited by North61; 11/10/10.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7 |
I do know Ray and visited with him at his home as well as at various SCI shows. He is not a rich man nor a crook but someone who thought he could moonlight some as a booking agent and maybe parlay that into some good hunting. There are a lot of folks doing that part time and from my experience Ray was a lot more honest and trust worthy than most of those. Like most older honest folks Ray tended to take folks at face value - so if some outfitter told Ray he had numerous world record trophy's on his place- Ray would believe him. I know he got burned on a few African deals due to this tendency.
Just as there are numerous crooked booking agents in the business taking advantage of both hunters and guides, there are crooked outfitters who take advantage of agents and hunters.
Sure Ray liked the attention he got from this forum - who of us honestly doesn't ? - and he may have embellished some things - that is also a common theme here - but he really does have a lot of experience and knowledge. I booked a hunt through Ray and it was as advertised. I think that a lot of people just look to discredit Ray for any reason or no reason
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,997 Likes: 26
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,997 Likes: 26 |
I know a few old guys that are probably alot like Ray.
Never met Ray but the guys I know are old cowboys/ranchers who have been known to bullchit a little bit.
Fun listening to their stories and a guy certainly can learn something as well.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749 |
I know a few old guys that are probably alot like Ray.
Never met Ray but the guys I know are old cowboys/ranchers who have been known to bullchit a little bit.
Fun listening to their stories and a guy certainly can learn something as well.
I here what you are saying Sam but a little ole BS ceases to be "a little ole BS" when $35,000 is involved.......................................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,997 Likes: 26
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,997 Likes: 26 |
DJ, I didn't read the entire thread and missed the part about somebody getting screwed out of $35k.
Fraud and misrepresentation obviously ain't cool.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,946 Likes: 27
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,946 Likes: 27 |
So did Ray cheat you out of $35K - or the outfitter?
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7 |
Nobdoy got screwed out of 35,000 dollars
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,997 Likes: 26
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,997 Likes: 26 |
Who's Nobdoy?
Sounds like a Dutchman.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,348 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,348 Likes: 1 |
There seems to be 2-3 folks that seem to have an axe to grind regards Ray. Why I don't know.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,407
Campfire Tracker
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Ray sent me on my first trip to Africa and I had a wonderful time with zero issues.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7 |
Who's Nobdoy?
Sounds like a Dutchman. How about no one, zilch, nota, none, etc
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,829 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,829 Likes: 5 |
I do know Ray and visited with him at his home as well as at various SCI shows. He is not a rich man nor a crook but someone who thought he could moonlight some as a booking agent and maybe parlay that into some good hunting. There are a lot of folks doing that part time and from my experience Ray was a lot more honest and trust worthy than most of those. Like most older honest folks Ray tended to take folks at face value - so if some outfitter told Ray he had numerous world record trophy's on his place- Ray would believe him. I know he got burned on a few African deals due to this tendency.
Just as there are numerous crooked booking agents in the business taking advantage of both hunters and guides, there are crooked outfitters who take advantage of agents and hunters.
Sure Ray liked the attention he got from this forum - who of us honestly doesn't ? - and he may have embellished some things - that is also a common theme here - but he really does have a lot of experience and knowledge. Phil, Good post. Thanks for posting that. Most sincerely, -Bob F.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
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So did Ray cheat you out of $35K - or the outfitter? 10 days, 4 bull elephants and 4 bull buffalo, price is all inclusive at $35,00. Tips are optional. Includes everything, trophy fees, pick up and delivery to airport,daily rate, whatever..Hunt is in Gokwe area. OK to be specific Ray offered this hunt for $35,000. Real outfitters from the area he mentioned jumped all over it and said that this was misrepresented. No-one took the hunt after the firestorm. So noone ended up losing $35,000 to Ray along with a possible stay in an African Prison for an illegal hunt. In fairness to Ray I want to say that I don't think for a second that he was actually trying to directly screw someone out of $35,000. I think what happened is that he did NOT provide Due diligence and properly research what he was trying to get someone to spend $35,000 on. But in the end if someone had taken him up on the offer the end results might have been the same. Trust is something that takes a long time to gain and an instant to lose.............................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Mar 2006
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JWP did you go on a muledeer hunt or something else?
Dink
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7 |
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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