Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why was Ray Atkinson fried?

As a Dutchman I resent that!!!


ddj

Here are the two best responses about Ray that I have read yet





Years ago Ray advertised a hunt that was in an area I lived in and knew well, for a species I have hunted extensively for year the better part of 20 years. The hunt was so grossly misrepresented I called him on it in a respectful manner and it went downhill from there. He called me every name in the book, manufactured lies about me and left numerous messages on my phone, in some of them he threatened to show up at my door where I lived with my wife and daughter. Want to see a man do things out of his character just threaten his family. I didnt know anything about the man at the time so I didnt take it lightly. He went absolutely ballistic because I pointed out what was wrong with the hunt that was offered over the internet. It was so bad he actually used a photograph of one of my good friends deer as one of his clients and added 30" to the score. My buddy has never heard of Ray Atkinson. All I know is that he was completely irrational and made threats because of a difference of opinion on the internet. What kind of person does this?

That being said, I am not objective when it pertains to Ray in any way, shape or form. I dislike the man

I will attempt objectivity here and we'll see if it works. I think Ray has a great ability at story telling. This is not a knock on him at all, I enjoy listening to stories around a campfire as much as anybody. I also think Ray has a great imagination and this is probably one of the reasons he is a great story teller. Who hasnt embellished a story around a campfire? Hell, I'm from Texas and down there it's damn near a contest so I am guilty as much as anybody.

I think that 458Win hit the nail on the head when he said that Ray believes what the outfitters tell him. Outfitters are salesmen and I think that Ray wanted to believe what he was hearing so he could send people on what he thought were good hunts

Where the problem lies is that as a "booking agent" one would need to listen to the outfitters hunt offerings and then do research to decipher whats BS and whats real so you can give your clients a realistic "sell" on the hunt and not over promise things. I dont belive that Ray does this, he listens to what these outfitters tell him and instead of wading through the BS he "Atkinsons" it up a little bit and now you have a hunt thats grossly misrepresented. This is the root of the problem IMO

As much as I just tried to be objective with Ray I am not willing to just give him a pass on this one. Ray has made a decision to be dishonest on more than one occasion. I'm not even going to go into detail about the stories he has told of seweing the eyelids shut on wild cattle, stiff arming hippos, making offhand head shots on running animals at 800 yards, killing more buffalo than any other white man alive, shooting 2-3 deer over 200" with spreads exceeding 40" every season on one ranch and of 26" world record antelope. The BS goes on and on. There is a post floating round that lists a bunch of the quotes, some of them contradicting one another, I just want to focus on some of his business tactics here. He has made up lies about me, he uses photographs of harvested animals and claims them as "his clients" kills for his North America hunts as well as Africa hunts, he said that he contacted certain organizations about his latest hunt offering only to have people from within the organization come on the forums and let people know that they had never heard from Ray. I know for a fact that Ray has been made aware of his misrepresentations and been provided the facts and continued to represent hunts in a false way. These were conscience decisions by Ray. He knew exactly what he was doing

If a guy just had a reputation for telling a tall tale or two around a campfire thats one thing, telling tall tales in an attempt to sell something is another. Add money to the equation and you go from being a great story teller to being a crook. I dont think Ray realizes just how serious something like this is and thats too bad.

Drummond

This has nothing to do with Ray but years of doing something doesnt make you good at doing it. For instance, my step mom has been cooking for 40+ years and she isnt very good at it. I've been using a computer since I was in middle school but the average 3rd grader is more profecient at them than I am.

I know grown men that have been hunting since they were kids and couldnt hunt their way out the front door of a Wal-Mart if they walked in through the tire and lube department and I know a 22 year old young man that I have guided with that is a killer. He is patient, has a knack for always finding game and consistantly helps clients get within range. He's been hunting since he was 12 but his instincts are better than a lot of men with many more years of "experience". Just a thought...

Drummond

I have no bone to pick with Ray. Beyond reading his posts over the years (which I always found to be entertaining, one way or the other), I have had zero contact with the man, and before today didn't really have any strong feelings about him, either positive or negative.

But I just finished reading the 6 page thread about the "cull" hunt he was offering over on AR (which you can read here ), and I must say that I didn't come away with the best impression of the man. He was offered good advice from many people on there, some of whom were just trying to help him stay out of trouble, and all Ray did was bury his head in the sand. According to Ray, it was everyone else's fault, a conspiracy to ruin his business, liable, slander, you name it. Even after it was made blatantly obviously to him that the hunt was illegal according to a plethora of various laws, he still said "Well, I could do the hunt and there's not much that could be done about it" (or words to that effect).

Judging from what I read, he is not someone I would do business with, nor is he someone I would look to for advice. I'm not saying he's not a nice guy, but after seeing his behavior on that thread I just wouldn't trust anything the man says. But that's just me.


Brian.

I'm sorry, but this argument doesn't fly. One doesn't need to be a football player to be able to observe when a team makes a bad play. In the same vein, one doesn't need to be a boxer to point out that a fighter is keeping his right hand too low and keeps getting dinged with a left hook.

I might not be as old as Ray, and I may have never hunted Africa (and likely never will), but I can sure as hell read. And what I've read from Ray just doesn't jive with reality.

Now, if you want to get your advice from Ray, more power to you. Just don't try to tell everyone else that they should listen to him too.

Brian.

Ray is still listed as an active member here..........

.......

Thanks for clearing that up, Rick.

Ted

Let me get this straight........you claim we have missed out because Ray "has so much to offer in his actual hunting experience"........then you tell us you " have never met Ray nor ever had PM's or e-mails with the man,let alone phone calls or anything else...."

Excuse me, but how would you know all about Ray's hunting experience?? I guess you believe everything you read??

Maybe you haven't read all the BS many of us have seen Ray post??

Ray is a liar, plain and simple.......you have been given MANY examples of the lies he has told yet you continue to tell us how much we are missing because he took his toys and went home.........maybe you like liars.......most of us don't.

I will say this: Ray has some sort of beef with the 45-70. I will also say he doesn't know diddly squat from wild onions as far as the 45-70 is concerned. This makes me highly suspicious of some of his other pronouncements. I would not book with him under any circumstances.

Just for the record, I like the 45-70

The thing I don't get is people won't listen to Ray or even Phil Shoemaker after his post..Seems quite a few of you guys have "I" problems....Not eye but I.....

I am not a concrete cowboy and will challenge you or anyone else to time spent in the woods,not behind a counter/weekends or a vacation for hunting.

In all my years,I no what is BS and what is not,because I have done it year around..Chest thumping on the net is disgusting especially when quite a few think they know more than Ray and Phil,years younger living a completely different life,in a city,for the most part..

Hey,bash Ray or even Phil...Just shows your ignorance and lack of, what they have you will never have.

I have to drive 100 miles to get to a shooting range/Walmart/Costco or even a fast food restaurant like McDonald's..

Don't try and tell me about what woods life is like or hunting,yet I listen to guys like Ray and Phil,not weekend warriors.

Jayco

Anyone having to do that doesn't need to, he lives in one. And seems like you maybe have an "I" problem. Jus sayin.

It is good to see some folks step forward with positives posted about Ray. He deserves that, too.

With all due respect, your all over the place here. I havent seen or heard anybody ever say a negative thing about Phil. I dont think you should lump him in with Ray on these issues.

Then this, which I find quite funny...


Its obvious that you dont "no" as much as you say you "no" and I almost detected a bit of "chest thumping" on your part

Whats most interesting is how much you sound like Ray himself, must be an Idaho thing. The grammar and punctuation is almost identical

Drummond

I like that...At least I am in good company...When you were going to school,I was just hunting/logging and just doing the outdoor thing back in the 60's after I got my GED from Boise Junior College aka Boise State, now...

The difference in Ray and me,is I don't run from bullies...I take 'em head on..Just the way I do things and always have...

This thread has run it's course and I am not going to say anymore..If you want to wrestle with me on the net...

Sign up here...And I will play hard ball with you but not here on Ricks forum...

www.levergunlovers.com

Jayco

That in bold - Thanks.

2 points for you to consider;

1. You don't own any patents on coming up the hard way, amigo.
2. Boise State owes you a partial refund.

Ray told a good story, but was very frequently wrong on a huge number of details on a large number of facts. And despite multiple attempts at politely pointing out where he was wrong, he would always come back with the same misinformation time and time and time again.

As an example, I don't know how many times we tried to point out that there weren't any pre-1960 Savage 99's made in 284 since the 284 wasn't introduced until 1964. But give him six months and he'd be back again talking about how those lever safety 284's like the several he'd had were the best ones to buy. Especially with 26" barrels. Sigh. And six months later he'd say it again.

I don't think he ever maliciously lied or tried to mislead people, but the man didn't know what he didn't know.


Now, on the AR thread.. can't see that he did anything except try to maliciously mislead people by saying he was communicating with people he wasn't.

I was thinking the same thing.

Brian.

And he claimed that people who were trying to HELP him stay out of trouble were in a conspiracy to destory his business.

And he threatened to sue about 5 different people who had the gall to say he was breaking federal laws.

And he completley ignored page after page of advice, and claimed that anything posted online was BS and he'd only believe it if someone called or e-mailed him and told him the same thing.

And he said there was nothing wrong with doing business with Mugabe's henchmen.......despite it being a violation of US federal law.

And he said that he could still do the hunt (poaching expedition) and there was NOTHING anyone could do about it.

But other than that........

Brian.

Of those, only the Mugabe's henchman talk was blatantly advocating illegal activity. The other items were stupid and some unethical, but legal. He wasn't advocating poaching because he didn't believe it was, though that's a thin excuse because he should have known better as an agent.

I hope for his sake that he's retiring early before he gets himself and clients into serious trouble.

Wonder if he ever sent any other clients on hunts like this? <shudder>