Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why was Ray Atkinson fried?

Ray's patented excuse was "well, I've seen hunts like this on TV, so it MUST be legal!"

Facepalm.

Brian.

I have no dog in this "fight", but I do want to say that I know from personal experience that Logcutter is a very decent man with a fine family, and he has many years of hunting and logging experience in the mountains of Idaho. I also know from experience that he would "bend over backwards" to help a friend.

Thanks for posting that! I completely understand loyalty to friends, I am loyal to a fault sometimes. Didnt he say he didnt know Ray though? I'd have to go back and look

Logcutter, how bout this, as it pertains to Ray I agree to disagree. Best of luck this season up in Idaho, Its beautiful country

Drummond

[/quote]2. Boise State owes you a partial refund. [/quote]

That's funny! This thread is entertaining and this was the best part.

I've said my piece in full.

a good guy can [bleep] up......in fact i tend not to trust guys that say they never have cause they usually turn out to be distrustful bastards.....

a few guys here that have met Ray say he is overall a good guy....im inclined to believe them but it sounds like when someone puts up info that contradicts what he says instead of taking a step back and seeing if there is any truth there he gets damn defensive and jams his head in the sand....ive noticed this tendency in him on a number of minor things here on the forums, can imagine its the same on bigger stuff.....

it seems this attitude is what rubbed some guys like huntsonora the wrong way.....having had to deal with this same trait in close family members i know its frustrating as hell to deal with....

Ray is likely a great guy other than his seeming refusal to step back and reevaluate things and instead takes a death grip to the original statement and refuses to let go....

"Curious" is good, but the tenor of this thread reminds me of what the Biblical admonition "Judge not" means �

� Don't condemn what God allows.

� Don't condone what God condemns.

IOW, the office of Final Judge belongs to God, not to any of us. Don't try to don His robe. Don't try to pound His gavel. Let Him absolve whomever He will. Let Him sentence whomever He will.

Opine all you want, but walk wide of judging either pro or con.

Like a tight-rope over the Grand Ca�on? And then some! For one thing, the line between judging and opining is indeed a gossamer thread.

(More and more, I suspect that the far greater danger lies in approving the despicable.)

Jayco

Ken

I don't know what to say to you since I stuck my foot in my mouth with your trying to help,years ago.But I can say this,I would be right there if you ended up being fried like Ray.You don't have to be best friends or even know the person other than the net to know if someone is a good person,at heart..I believe you and Ray fall into that category.

Like Ray,I always read what you post hoping,even at my age,I can learn something new from my older comrades.

That's just the way I am.

Jayco

Just curious...
Name Them for us.

Thought you were through??

Forgive the long post, but I wanted to cite some documented facts that are publicly available through the United States Central Intelligence Agency involving Zimbabwe.

After reading all the threads here and on AR involving Ray Atkinson�s Zimbabwe hunt, I find the entire situation with any business dealings, outside of humanitarian aid, with Zimbabwe to be suspect for corruption. No one comes out squeaky clean with this mess. Anyone of my fellow countrymen having an interest in dealings with Zimbabwe should take the time to read some of the information gleaned from the official United States of America records with our Central Intelligence Agency. These and many more facts on Zimbabwe are available to the public through the CIA internet library:
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Robert MUGABE, the nation's first prime minister, has been the country's only ruler (as president since 1987) and has dominated the country's political system since independence. His chaotic land redistribution campaign, which began in 2000, caused an exodus of white farmers, crippled the economy, and ushered in widespread shortages of basic commodities. Ignoring international condemnation, MUGABE rigged the 2002 presidential election to ensure his reelection. The ruling ZANU-PF party used fraud and intimidation to win a two-thirds majority in the March 2005 parliamentary election, allowing it to amend the constitution at will and recreate the Senate, which had been abolished in the late 1980s. In April 2005, Harare embarked on Operation Restore Order, ostensibly an urban rationalization program, which resulted in the destruction of the homes or businesses of 700,000 mostly poor supporters of the opposition. President MUGABE in June 2007 instituted price controls on all basic commodities causing panic buying and leaving store shelves empty for months. General elections held in March 2008 contained irregularities but still amounted to a censure of the ZANU-PF-led government with the opposition winning a majority of seats in parliament. MDC opposition leader Morgan TSVANGIRAI won the most votes in the presidential polls, but not enough to win outright. In the lead up to a run-off election in late June 2008, considerable violence enacted against opposition party members led to the withdrawal of TSVANGIRAI from the ballot. Extensive evidence of vote tampering and ballot-box stuffing resulted in international condemnation of the process. Difficult negotiations over a power-sharing government, in which MUGABE remained president and TSVANGIRAI became prime minister, were finally settled in February 2009, although the leaders have yet failed to agree upon many key outstanding governmental issues.

Under MUGABE�S control, the Zimbabwean population of 11 � million people suffer a low life expectancy, a high infant mortality rate, and a high death rate. 44% of the population is between the ages of 0-14 years of age, with a median age for the entire country at 17.8 years of age. The death rate is one of the worst in the world, the migration rate is one of the highest in the world, and the life expectancy of both males and females is only 47 years of age. Spread of HIV/AIDS is one of the highest in the world, and they carry one of the highest risks for major infectious diseases.

Zimbabwe is a source, transit, and destination country for men, women, and children trafficked for the purposes of forced labor and sexual exploitation; large scale migration of Zimbabweans to surrounding countries - as they flee a progressively more desperate situation at home - has increased; rural Zimbabwean men, women, and children are trafficked internally to farms for agricultural labor and domestic servitude and to cities for domestic labor and commercial sexual exploitation; NGOs believe internal trafficking increased during the year, largely due to the closure of schools, worsening political violence, and a faltering economy; young men and boys are trafficked to South Africa for farm work, often laboring for months in South Africa without pay before "employers" have them arrested and deported as illegal immigrants; young women and girls are lured abroad with false employment offers that result in involuntary domestic servitude or commercial sexual exploitation; men, women, and children from neighboring states are trafficked through Zimbabwe en route to South Africa. The Government of Zimbabwe does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking and is not making significant efforts to do so; the government made minimal progress in combating trafficking in 2008, and members of its military and the former ruling party's youth militias perpetrated acts of trafficking on local populations; anti-trafficking efforts were further weakened as it failed to address Zimbabwe's economic and social problems during the reporting period, thus increasing the population's vulnerability to trafficking within and outside of the country (2009)
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As stated by Saeed in Ray Atkinson�s original AR thread, �There is no operator in Zimbabwe operating today without some connection to one or more of those connected with MUGABE.�

As to the Gokwe Region discussed in this dispute, look no further than this recent published article about MUGABE�S activities with the locals in that specific area:
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Zimbabwe soldiers set bases in Gokwe

Published: June 3, 2010

Gokwe(ZimEye)-Uniformed soldiers and war veterans have set up torture bases at Manoti, Chireya, Kana and Masemo areas in Gokwe and Chakari where they have dug deep torture open casts which they are threatening to throw MDC supporters who are resisting to repent and support the Kariba draft, a senior MDC Midlands official has said, with revelations that South African president Jacob Zuma has been informed and yet done nothing.

MDC Midlands province chairperson Cephas Zimuti said in an interview at the weekend that the soldiers who are working in cahoots with their ZANU-PF militia in Gokwe and Chakari are forcing villagers to take part in their toyi toyi moves where they will be chatting revolutionary songs, praising ZANU-PF and the Kariba draft.

He said they are forcing villagers to attend regular meetings at the set torture bases where people are continuously reminded about the June 27 2008 Presidential run off election atrocities.
-------------------------------
With the facts laid out you can clearly see who was to be fed from Ray Atkinson�s advertised (MUGABE) hunt. You can also see and understand Saeed�s point that Ray Atkinson was not alone in dealings with MUGABE in that area of Zimbabwe. How can anyone from the U.S. blindly go into any business dealings in that location with all this documented corruption that is easily made available by the United States Government. I don�t see anyone on either side of this issue as being snow white, and I don�t see anyone involved in such activity avoiding the MUGABE connection. I see quite a few posts made on the AR thread, not trying to give hints to help Ray personally, but posts trying to give hints to stop Ray from discussing the MUGABE issue on an open public forum. This MUGABE connection does not pass the smell test.

Best:)

There's no bad air 'tween you 'n' me, Amigo, as far as I have any say-so!

("Fried?" Least o' my worries!)

Ray and I have had some interesting words regarding mules vs horse and Texas heart shots on elk. Other than that,he is no different than many of the other cyber types on this forum or other forums that claim some things that may be a tad exagerated lets say.
He is a darn site more civil than many yahoos on this forum, and sure doesn't need anyone to stick up for him.

To have this thread extend for 5+ pages on his merits or lack thereof is one of the most assine that I have seen here, especially seeing that it is the middle of hunting season and some of these guys should be out hunting rather than typing.

I don't know him.

Don't know anything about him.

Have zilch interest in what others allege about him.

Have no opinion of him � except to assume that he's OK more than not.

Have enough to worry about just keeping my pejorative knowledge of certain others to myself.

Maybe we should all just change the Subject. Anyone else agree?
I mean RickBin already said Ray wasn't banned therefore he was not fried at least not on the campfire. He may have burned a few bridges and made a few mistakes. He may have even pi$$ed some people and got slammed for it. Who hasn't?
I am not picking sides I am not even standing up for anyone. However the master of the campfire (RickBin) has spoken. So since the answer has already been stated and made public, how about we all just move on or change the subject.

Here i'll help change the subject:
"Say something nice about another campfire member"
I like Ken Howell heck I love Ken Howell! Great man with a ton of knowledge that I myself will never accumulate.
Ken is alright by me.

Anyone else wanna say something nice about another campfire member? Lets move on from something that was already answered pages ago.

Kique

Never you mind what everyone else says Enrique, I think your alright...;)

Heck, Kique, y'ain't met me yet!

Don't need to the PM's and the telephone conversation we had was enough.
If I am fortunate enough to make it to Quemado and meet you, I am sure i'll still feel the same.

"I like Ken Howell heck I love Ken Howell! Great man with a ton of knowledge that I myself will never accumulate.
Ken is alright by me."

Well, I second Kique, and I have had the privilege of swapping lies with Ken face to face on a few occasions.