Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Draw Odds For Montana

I came to this thread late but am now not believing what I'm reading.

Paying an extra $200 for an annual deer tag is NOT the same as paying an $500 per month for health insurance--which is why my wife are paying now versus what we were paying maybe 5 years ago. And that is AFTER increasing our deductible to save another $500 in the monthly rate.

I live and hunt in Montana (in fact was born here) but also hunt in many other places, averaging spending $10,000 or so a year to do so. Maybe since I hunt in Alberta 2 out of 3 years I should get a discount on their license fees, since I contribute so much to the province's coffers? Or since I try to get to Texas every winter to hunt pigs (a fine break from the Montana winter, though an expensive way to buy pork) I should be awarded a lifetime pig pass?

Give me a break.

Dink - I think you might be better off looking at Wyoming for your antelope. We used to hunt area 700 for antelope in Montana and had great hunts but as a general statement, Wyoming has better, cheaper, and more antelope hunting. We have bought leftover antelope tags the last several years and have found antelope fairly easily. In Wyoming even the school sections and smaller peices of public tend to hold antelope throughout the season. We have also found it easier to gain access from landowners in Wyoming. This is just m opinion and experiences.


ddj

actually ive heard from those that come out west that for a DIY hunt for goats and that have hunted both states, Wyoming is your best bet....ive personally never hunted there but you see the same recommendation here time after time....

I've hunted Wyoming for pronghorns many times, including last year. It has probably three times as many pronghorns as Montana (according to estimates), and perhaps as many as the rest of North America put together. It is the center of the pronghorn universe.

Wyoming also has quite a bit of public land, plus some places were landowners aren't averse to allowing hunters to reduce their goat population.

Lately the only problem down there is a LOTS of oil and gas development, which in some areas does seem to affect pronghorns, though in other areas it doesn't.

I live in Iowa and we have a huge discrepancy between Resident and Non Resident tag fees and personally I think I should get a break for living here. However, I think it would be good to increase resident and resident fees equally. I wouldn't be opposed to tags both going up by 38%. Just my thoughts.


ddj

Wyoming is a great place to hunt speed goats. I have hunted WY many times. I hunted below Gilette(sp) on public ground. I hunted mulies in the same area. Good hunting and lots of land owners that would gladly accept lots of NR $$. The draw for tags in MT has gotten better with the increase of outfitter tags being put in the lottery. Yes, prices have gone up. Get over it! MT is not attempting to steal anyones $. Perhaps Dink has a personal vendetta with MT FW&P. This is unfortunate. I respect the fact that he has views and have thought about his comments. I do not altogether agree with them. But, this is America and we can voice our opinions freely. MTG

Yeah, we can express our thoughts and feelings. But the rest of us still don't have to believe everything we hear!

There are probably a lot of reasons I-161 passed but Dink has highlighted a few. Certainly there is resentment against midwesterners who pay $5000 to hunt antelope. Most ranchers I know beg you to kill a few but if the rancher can get $5000 Gs the rules change. Now I know many neighbors of outfitted ranches that voted in favor of I-161 because they see the outfitter shooting only a select few bucks while they are getting over run with the does. How many does do the NR take? Then ask a Montanan how many cars they have totaled because of deer. Add some more resentment. For legality reasons the resident licenses should be raised by an equal %. That would be an extra $7 for an elk.

Muledeer if you health insrance went up 60% are you going to complain? How many free or reduced price hunts do you get to go on? Wouldn't those be considered breaks? I don't get that option and I don't get to write them off as tax deductions either. Those pigs you are killing are they on federal ground? I am going to guess not. I know you hunt for a living and I do it as a hobby but I still can not believe a 60% increase in tags and everyone thinks we should just be happy about it.

There is some BLM ground that adjoins the ranch we hunt. We always stop and talk to the guys and locals make fun of us for paying to hunt. What do you think hotel rooms (if you can find one on opening weekend), meals, fuel, ect. cost for five guys for six days (we get there the day before season)? Then we have to worry about other hunters being where we want to be hunting. Sure we pay more but sometimes you have weigh that chit out.

Wyoming is the place for antelope. We have maximum points there for deer,antelope and elk. The reason we usually antelope hunt in montana is because of the june 1st application deadling. If we do not draw tags for anything else we still have time to put in for antelope.

KRAKMT we kill every doe we can. We also shoot every prairie dog we can find.

Dink

No offense Dink, but most of your pain is self inflicted. If you like poking yourself in the eye for paying for things not needed then there is not much help.

I don't believe JB gets any breaks and has to pay full price for his hunts just like everybody else.

A 9 day elk hunt for anyone in my party costs them about $350/each after they've got their tags and make it to the hunt area. We eat like kings and sleep in a nice canvas tent that is every bit as comfortable as a motel room sans the modern conveniences. More than enough public ground out there so other hunters aren't a problem. Plus we manage to shoot chit despite the obvious handicap

Dink - I have max points for elk, deer, and antelope as well. I can still buy a Wyoming tag over the counter and keep my points. My Dad and I have done this the last several years and hunt public land or knock on doors. We have had no problem shooting bucks and my antelope last year made 80 2/8's. I don't say this to brag but that Wyoming has good hunting for antelope past the initial draw. I'm glad that you and your friends have a good place to hunt it's just that you may be going through a bit more work and expense than is needed.


ddj

MT I have no personal vandetta against Montana game and fish. I do have a vandetta against bullchit fee's and surcharges. If the game and fish would have said they were running out of money and raised everyone's tag $50, residents and non-residents, ok. To raise the non-residents tags that much they are saying we are nothing but a cash cow for them. I take offense to that (I probaly shouldn't but I do). Its kinda like when you go buy a new vehicle and they try to get you the $50-$100 for title application. I have never paid one of those fees and don't plan to (I know they figure it in somewhere but I am not going to agree to pay it).

Kelk you are right that we could do things cheaper. The problem is we don't have all the camping equipment do hunts like this. I know we could buy it but then you run into who really owns it or who has to buy what. I would much rather sleep in a nice tent than a nasty hotel room but .....

trouthunter we are thinking about doing this next year. I have hunted wyoming a couple of times and know they have very good hunting. We always just put in for a premium tag because we always had Montana to fall back on...

I see everyones point on the matter but it really pisses me that montana thinks they can just raise tag prices and know one is going to pissed about it.

Of the five of us two are out and two still want to go. I am undecided still but very pissed about it (not that it does me any good really).

Dink

Dink,

As to the equipment issue, I think that a tight knit group like yours could figure out some sort of arrangement. However, there are other options at least here in CO and I'd imagine you could find something similar in most western states.

Rent a tent and stove. Tons of places here in CO to do just that. Then you guys would just need to hold onto your personal gear such as cots. Also know some places that rent pop up trailers too. There are options to help reduce costs and get you what you want.

Seems you missed the part where the citizens of Montana through the initiative process voted to eliminate the guaranteed outfitter tags and raised the price of non-residents to back fill the loss to the block management program. Fish and game never took a position.

Dink, I wish you a successful hunt in Wyoming. I have said it before and will say it once more that you and your friends indeed are welcome to come hunt here in Montana. We should not be at odds over this. I do not harbor any personal resentment for you. I firmly believe that you should put your anger behind you for it will not serve you well. I will not apologize for what the people of Montana have voted. Good luck. Good hunting. MTG

I am not at odds with anyone over this. The people voted and it is what it is. I don't have to like but then again I don't like alot of things.

Why was everyone against the outfitter tags? Why would residents care if non-residents paid more for a better chance at a tag? I never did understand why this was put to a vote. I never bought a outfitter tag but thought it was a good idea.

Dink

DINK: You are way over-simplifying the situation!
THE main problem is that for the last 3+ decades "outfitters" have been buying up the Hunting rights on more and more and more private lands and access to public lands as well.
These ranches, access to public lands and private lands as well, had very often previously been available to the average Hunter!
I just yesterday Hunted adjacent to an "outfitted" ranch that had just over 1,200 (one thousand two hundred!) Elk on it!
Myself and my two companions counted them!
It took a LONG time to count this many Elk by the way.
Yeah... its an "outfitted" ranch that charges BIG MONEY to harvest a Bull Elk ONLY, from that amazing herd.
Once the Hunting season is over this same rancher (for the last several years anyway) simply dispatches a small fleet of hired hands on ATV's to "disperse" (run off or "de-outfit"!) those same Elk!
Then, after the season, these Elk take refuge from the Wolves on neighboring ranches where the owners do not appreciate/make money off of their presence!
So instead of having game animals Hunted throughout the season by many folks, and the animals spread out among the various public lands and the edges of private lands the Elk (Deer and Antelope often as well) annually seek the relative calm of the outfitted/private lands.
By the way, the last I heard the "outfitted" (tresspass fee!) price on this ranch was $5,500.00 and was limited to 10 Bull Elk Hunters during a 37 day long Rifle season!!!
Hmmm... I wonder if that rancher/outfitter declares that $55,000.00 as "income"???
This is JUST ONE reason MOST people are against "outfitter" set aside tags!
By the way we never saw an Elk - not EVEN ONE ELK, during yesterdays Hunt on the adjacent lands where we were allowed to Hunt.
There are about 20 (twenty) equally pertinent reasons MOST Montana voters ARE against the "outfitter" set asides!!!
The reason it was "put to a vote" was the majority of Montanans ARE absolutely sick of the situation, as is.
DINK and this, part of reality (good mental health!) is being aware that MOST people could give a rats ass less what YOU or I think!
Your opinion matters ONLY to you - when a situation that you obviously have no clue about has offended the majority of the affected people THEN in a democracy the affected people vote on it!
And again the results are "is what it is" and your and my opinions are now irrelevent.
By the way I did vote on this matter and as a result of the way the election turned out I am hoping to see an improvement in Hunter access.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

your reading comprehension skills suck cause i and several others have pointed out various ways outfitters have pissed of Montanans....

from my own experience they tried to bully myself and friends into paying to become outfitters cause we were taking local kids that have not been exposed to fishing much out fishing on our dime....we werent taking a dime for our time but they still threatened legal action if we didnt join the Montana Outfitters and Guides Association.....they backed off eventually.....

In NM 12% of NR tags are set aside for people who are signed up to hunt with an outfitter. That along with our out of control land owner tags has given outfitters and land owners so much voice/power with our GF Department/legislature we are having a really hard time getting anything changed in NM. There is even a survey on the web that allows NR. to give input into our tag allocation that will be taken to the legislature this year. ( sorry but I can't agree with that)

How are land owner tags issued in MT and do they receive antelope and elk tags? In NM a person can get a unit wide elk tag with as little as 5 acres.

I can see the outfitters leasing the land pissing everyone off but I got news for you guys it happens here and all we have are whitetails to hunt. Lease ground here to just hunt whitetails runs $10-$12+ a acre. Most guys hunt these lease's opening day (saturday) and sunday. I have seen some leases bring as much as $25 a acre to hunt just the opening weekend of rifle season.

By doing away with outfitter tags do you guys really think you will gain hunting priviledges on these ranches that are now off limits? My opinion is there will always be someone with a tag willing to pay to hunt there.

I think this was a bad move for the state of montana in a economic way. The guys that paid for the outfitter tags will take there money and buy tag voucher's in other states. The guys that have the money to pay for outfitters and the outfitter tags are not going to wait to draw a tag. They will find one somewhere (they have the money). Guys like me that can't or won't pay for the outfitter tag are the guys to say [bleep] it I ain't going. It would be interesting to see if business suffers from this new decision or if business stays the same. I doubt if they would admit it if it hurts business.

Dink