Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Burns and Stick

[bleep].....................

That was a good one.

South rim to the North Rim?? Didn't Evil Knievel already do that with a more problematic trajectory?

Big difference from "views" (which could be anything from "that's cool" to "wtf" to "that/those guy(s) is/are (a) dick(s)", and a "PM box overfloweth" with work related stuff.

Big difference.

Your tactic is clear; it's the same as Terrible Owens, Chad Ochocinco, Latrell Sprewell, Anna Nicole Smith... "any publicity is good publicity".

At this point, the ONLY avenue that you've got left as far as this business plan is that folks will think (and buy) that you make a good product (which you undoubtedly do) regardless of price, and regardless of the personality of the guy making the product.

That, can work... though you're on a thin limb with little recourse if folks just start going "that guy is a douche, and no matter how good his stuff is, I can get it elsewhere from someone who ain't".

Your call, obviously, and good luck with it.

As for no other custom builder playing here, um.... you missed widely on that one as well.

He may have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express....but he's NOT a "custom" builder...

I don't know who challenged who in the beginning but from what I've read on this thread here is my take. Big Stick was challenged by JohnBurns and he did not accept. Burns Wins. Calvin challenges JohnBurns. Burns does not accept. Calvin Wins. Rman challenges JohnBurns. Burns does not accept. Rman Wins. Until someone challenges, and the challenge is accepted, the person who fails to accept is the loser. All the other BS gets thrown out as just that, BS. I don't care who can outshoot who. I just think that if you are man enough to run your mouth, and someone issues you a challenge, you accept and have at it or you look like the fool that you are.

No, the Snake River Canyon.

You are selling at $4300 plus perks, GreyBull can be had for around $6000. 65BR says you can build one for half of a GreyBull - "You charge 6K, which is about as high as any I know, yet use parts that are on the "LOWER End'....so calling Lower end components, a Premium Custom Rifle when assembled is just Bull...GreyBull."

Where should a man put his money? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Burns ...

I'll ask again, just because you ignored it ... errr, I mean "missed it" ...

1. What makes your rifle a "custom"?

1a. What "options" do you offer on your "custom build" other than a choice between one of three chamberings, one of two actions, and either a factory or Jewel trigger?

2. Do you have a system for determining the proper location for mounting the scope w/ regards for your customer's hold & eye position? (meaning that some people like their scopes mounted further forward, and some like it mounted further back)

3. How do you handle potential customers of yours that may want one of the specs of your rifles changed? i.e. length of pull change, different color stock, different stock all together, different scope, different barrel length/contour, flutes, etc.?


Point being, w/out you answering any of these questions... if what you're doing is "custom", then just about any automobile coming off a dealer's lot is "custom" because there are a few pre-set options that come from the factory that the buyer gets to choose from ... but in the end, they are all "production line" items.

Not that I truly give a damn, but it would be kinda nice to hear you admit that you don't offer a custom anything ... you have a "high performance, high price, long range capable rifle package system" that may very well work nicely in and of itself, but in no way is "customized" per the individual user in terms of having the rifle "fitted" to the user, or even allowing the user to determine what he's paying for other than you saying "it will work well" ...

Now, given that what you're selling is your word that it will work well and out-perform anything else out there ... why the hell would you be chasing people around acting like a jackass, and dodging questions about what people may be paying for if they buy your product?

I could see the jackass thing being ok if you listed out every last detail of the build so that the potential buyer could know precisely what they are laying their money down to get ... but when you're hiding all the details, and acting like a baby, it really begs questions of integrity on your part ...

You gotta pay for all those expensive videos and hunts somehow, so you sell a rifle and scope for $6000. Advertising is part of the production costs, I guess.

Hey Burns,
I posed this question awhile back in the custom rifles forum, but must have missed it.
If you rifles/set-ups are the t!ts as they stand now, best there is as you have said... Then why are you having McMillan get set up to start molding you stocks?
Just a question.

Sums it up pretty well for me, too.

I have been following this(and a few other similar threads) and have come to the conclusion that I would not buy a rifle from this fellow.
Plenty of other custom builders that don't get into pissing matches with guys on these kind of forums.

Why buy a greyBS McMillan stocked rifle of unknown components and perhaps quality, when you can buy the real deal for less.

http://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rifles-custom.php

I totally agree with what is said here. You can tell form seeing him on the TV shows John has put his time behind the trigger.

Obviously a marketing genious too. I've never heard of the dude before this thread and I can tell you the first impression is a doozy.

Guys like him were some of my best customers

I think your right in his beleif is that any publicity is good publicity. Here is my take on the whole thing. While many acquainted with the fire will see JB as a douche, many unaquainted could see his actions differently. They may see him as someone who stood up to a bully, then was attacked by the bullies cronies, and did not take no schit. Not saying that is my opinion, just another way people may see this thread. So his thinking may be right. He is not marketing his gun to hardcore guys anyway, but to newbies.

I aint got a thing for either BS or JB, nor do I have a thing against either one, but I wish they would do this shoot. I see either outcome as funny as hell. In the end BS probably already has what he wanted, JB slathering mad. So BS has already won.

I doubt that BS is one to run to run from any fight so it is my guess his hands have been tied by the management. Just guessing here, maybe he is just sitting at home giggling watching JB implode. (Oh damn a mental image of BS in his underware laughing like a mad man just popped into my head I may be sick now.) If BS hands have been tied, that would explain why so many come to protect BS cause I doubt otherwise he would want anyone fighting his battles.

I think I could hold my own against either on the shooting line, but see no profit in it. There is something more to life than bragging rights. Although I would really like to shoot with/against either I am not going to spend money better spent on a hunting trip for it. There are probably a lot of guys here here than shoot as well as either. I can think of at least a couple guys I would bet on rather than BS or JB.

As to JBs prices....I do not see his guns as customs, but maybe semi customs. I understand that they have to spend time to do load work up, and calibrate them fancy little dials, but think they are ovrpaid for this work. If it took them six hours per rifle, which is plenty of time for break in, load work up and confirming drops they are probably billing at 500 per hour for that work. Work that most anybody here does for their buddies for free is getting billed at a huge rate. I guess there are guys out there without friends with the capability to do this work for them. For the guys that do have friends or abilities of their own, these rifles are wayyyy overpriced.

In any case I wish JB well in his effort to sell rifles.....hey I beleive in capitalism. I also wish BS the best also. I am aware that he had a tragedy a while back and that still has to be effecting the guy, no matter how mentally tough he may be. I do get a kick out of his posts and can often gleen some pearls of wisdom from them.

Dang seems like I miss this when it fires up..... anyway... I didn't see the top quote till now. That means then, I'm assuming, that all our military snipers are running the yardage marked 1/3moa click scopes and correct rifle setups now or soon then?

Is this thread for real?? Is this John Burns fella really suppose to be a custom rifle builder?? $6k for a custom rifle?? I'd like to know what components he uses to build said rifle that would garner that hefty of a price tag.

700 action
HS Precision stock
"unnamed" barrel
Leupold 4.5-14x40 with custom reticle and knobs
Choice of three chamberings
Custom cut chamber
Initial load development and 100 rds of ammo

That's about it.