I'm sure John Burns can shoot his (supposedly) "Custom" rifles & loads just fine...I just have issues with his targeted clients being those that think buying his system is going to turn them into instant long range hunters...IMO he's the hunters version of a PT Barnum...
If you are not one of his clients, it does not affect you......so why are you even interested in what he is doing?
Actually it WAY does affect folks that are not his clients. He is claiming to have a better way to do it. And others are saying that the old way is just fine and actaully better, which is the camp I'm in.
As to custom guns.... his are not any more custom than anyone elses. Its all in what you want, what you want to pay, what can get sold to you as better, and so on.
The contest will get two known field shooters, out with their opposite gear, and see who can do the best. Though if its not a definitive stomp, luck is always involved.
For me, I don't think time should be a factor in the shot as long range shots take time to set up. Yep you should have a time limit, but its not about who guesses best and is quickest, its about who makes the right choices..... how to adjust for the conditions(IE NO its not, IMHO, as simple as a rangefinder saying 825, dial and ding.. ) etc....
If you are not one of his clients, it does not affect you......so why are you even interested in what he is doing?
Guess...it's probably what you do best.
Okay, your personal reasons are rather unsavoury and will not stand the light of day.....so you hide behind obfuscation and mis-direction.
How am I doing so far....?
You also seem to lack the intellect and honour to come straight out and state your personal vendetta, so feel the need to haul snide remarks from the shadows.
Am I on the right track..?
You are a man of low taste and co-incidentaly suffer from an incredibly debilitating form of "weeus dickus" resulting from a lifelong obsession with other mens endowment....in particular fiscal endowment, and cannot bear to see another succeed and prosper.
No One.... so its wrong to call a guy out for doing the same that others do but charging more? Thats the only differnece between a lot of smiths and burns.
weeus dickus is now down to childish name calling. Shows your stature. Why don't you stick to the issue and refrain from the name calling?
If you are not one of his clients, it does not affect you......so why are you even interested in what he is doing?
Actually it WAY does affect folks that are not his clients. He is claiming to have a better way to do it. And others are saying that the old way is just fine and actaully better, which is the camp I'm in.
As to custom guns.... his are not any more custom than anyone elses. Its all in what you want, what you want to pay, what can get sold to you as better, and so on.
The contest will get two known field shooters, out with their opposite gear, and see who can do the best. Though if its not a definitive stomp, luck is always involved.
For me, I don't think time should be a factor in the shot as long range shots take time to set up. Yep you should have a time limit, but its not about who guesses best and is quickest, its about who makes the right choices..... how to adjust for the conditions(IE NO its not, IMHO, as simple as a rangefinder saying 825, dial and ding.. ) etc....
Where is this thread at?
It neither affects nor interests me what claims are made, as I have more pressing things to worry about than some character making a quid from someone else that is happy to spend their coin with him. Seriously, if you are that offended you may want to contact Purdy and bitch at them.....I hear they really charge the gullible rich a motza for their services.
Rost, read that fellows post...HE told me to guess.....bitch at HIM.
I'm reading backwards... but the issue here also, says you it doesn't bother... when things don't bother me... I don't post and never go back to read... evidently something does bother ya.
As to others charging even more, yeah it pisses me off to no end. Fair is one thing. More for better work is VERY good, but beyond that its a ripoff.
Not on my account you won't...I'm heading out in about 15-20 minutes with the Hondakon in the back of the pickup & see if I can't scare up a varmint or bear with the old green Circe... Snowed all night up in the hills.
It neither affects nor interests me what claims are made, as I have more pressing things to worry about than some character making a quid from someone else that is happy to spend their coin with him. Seriously, if you are that offended you may want to contact Purdy and bitch at them.....I hear they really charge the gullible rich a motza for their services.
This whole thing is confusin' me, what the heck is a motza?
Money seems to not be an issue as to stop one from getting to the others locale to get this done.
Results will always trump gumming.
Anything less than "Lets do it" is pure skirting the issue.
Lets gets get er done boys, there can be only one.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Naw we are just going to have a lil shooting contest and see who can really get hits. Just between buddys and nuthin but braggin right on the line.
John Burns has called Larry out several times in the optics section for a shoot out. So far Larry has completely ignored the issue. If I did't know better I would think he is concerned that John will show him up and he will lose face with his followers. I think Larry can take him and can't imagine why he has yet to agree.
Greybull precision on Custom Rifles & Wildcats....he and Stick had a mutual wank session over on the Optics forum.
It was entertaining for a while, then degenerated into complete farce. At the moment Stick is buzzing around annoying anyone that is silly enough to bite, and John is dogging his posts with pathetic requests for another hand job.
No, really...I could not give a flying fnck where others spend their coin.
And good for you, you get p!ssed off at others managing to legally make a quid....from happy customers!!!
You may want to ask yourself why you feel this way about a complete stranger.
I don't have to ask myself. Ripping folks off, whether they are happy or not, is not my cup of tea. Fair money for fair work. Charging 100 bucks an hour when you can make a really nice living off of 50 an hour... that bothers me. Of course it shouldn't at all. If people are stupid enough to pay that rate, its up to them. Like one of our TV commercials goes..... money/no sense...
It neither affects nor interests me what claims are made, as I have more pressing things to worry about than some character making a quid from someone else that is happy to spend their coin with him. Seriously, if you are that offended you may want to contact Purdy and bitch at them.....I hear they really charge the gullible rich a motza for their services.
This whole thing is confusin' me, what the heck is a motza?
No, really...I could not give a flying fnck where others spend their coin.
And good for you, you get p!ssed off at others managing to legally make a quid....from happy customers!!!
You may want to ask yourself why you feel this way about a complete stranger.
I don't have to ask myself. Ripping folks off, whether they are happy or not, is not my cup of tea. Fair money for fair work. Charging 100 bucks an hour when you can make a really nice living off of 50 an hour... that bothers me. Of course it shouldn't at all. If people are stupid enough to pay that rate, its up to them. Like one of our TV commercials goes..... money/no sense...
Greybull precision on Custom Rifles & Wildcats....he and Stick had a mutual wank session over on the Optics forum.
It was entertaining for a while, then degenerated into complete farce. At the moment Stick is buzzing around annoying anyone that is silly enough to bite, and John is dogging his posts with pathetic requests for another hand job.
All in all it is no longer interesting.
Did you ever serve in your countries Diplomatic Corps? I just have a feeling Australia missed out if you didn't!
On a completely different subject, you mentioned you did a bit of Sambar hunting? How about a post and a few photo's?
Fair chase Sambar hunting in Victoria has probably got to be the premier hunting in the world...I have a 9.3x62mm with "sambar" written all over it, and if I ever win the lottery, that's one place I'd be heading...
Rest assured that we all want to make as much as we can. It doesn't matter what it takes for us to make a living we want as much as we can legally get. You do in your job and I do in my job. I am going to bill as much as possible. I figure I will know I am charging too much when I no longer get calls. I don't begrudge anyone for what they make (except congress)off their work. As long as someone is willing to pay their price and is happy to do so I say more power to them. Free enterprise and all.
Peter, I have no pictures of sport shooting at all....only those that were taken by others when I was shooting for a living.
If you ever feel the need to hunt in Victoria, feel free to give me a yell. Mansfield is about three hours away from here and is good country....I could probably even put you up for a couple of days, but you will have to put up with our "ragging the Pom".
Don't bother bringing a rifle, you can use my Brno model 21 in 7x57....I can use my brothers ZG47.
Rost, read that fellows post...HE told me to guess.....bitch at HIM.
My, my....the man told you to guess? I guess that really stung, huh?
Must be that time of the month for ya? Glad all the women in my house handle it sooooo much better. See a doc, there sweety. They got stuff to make it better.
Rost, read that fellows post...HE told me to guess.....bitch at HIM.
My, my....the man told you to guess? I guess that really stung, huh?
Must be that time of the month for ya? Glad all the women in my house handle it sooooo much better. See a doc, there sweety. They got stuff to make it better.
Nah mate, I did not see it as a challenge so much as an invitation to have my way for free. I mean....how often does someone hand a line like that to you and tell you to do your worst?
I don't get why people are jealous over what Burns charges for a rifle. I can't afford one but there are alot of people that can so who cares?
I don't get the whole "people are trying to buy skill" by buying a greybull rifle fight either. People are always trying to buying something they can't do. My sister's drive 50k-60k sports car's (maybe more) but the speed limit is the same if they drove a neon. They happen to have the money to buy the 50k-60k sports cars again who cares.
I think stick finally jumped on someone that is has probaly been called out many times before. If you make your living building custom rifles and shooting long range on video I have to believe that Burns has run into a loud mouth before.
Peter, I have no pictures of sport shooting at all....only those that were taken by others when I was shooting for a living.
If you ever feel the need to hunt in Victoria, feel free to give me a yell. Mansfield is about three hours away from here and is good country....I could probably even put you up for a couple of days, but you will have to put up with our "ragging the Pom"
Don't bother bringing a rifle, you can use my Brno model 21 in 7x57....I can use my brothers ZG47. Regards.
Thanks for the kind offer; if my lottery numbers come up you may well have a vistor! And don't worry about "ragging the Pom" I have skin like Rhino hide!
Have relatives in the Norther Territories (by marriage) and have thought about visiting, but although he seems a decent bloke (did a little small game shooting in the past as i understand) she is a rabid anti-hunter, so I'm not sure things would work!
Is it easy to get affordable hunting in the NT?? Any public land hunting like Victoria? Or do the locals all poach???
I think stick finally jumped on someone that is has probaly been called out many times before.
I haven't seen the threads but it sounds from reports on this one, that this Burns fella has jumped on Stick and called him out.
I don't know a thing about this Burns guy or what he's selling but I do know you can't buy skill. No matter how accurate his rifles, or how well thought out and inclusive his system, the man behind the trigger still has to have perfect trigger control, repeatability in hold, and follow through to make the long shots or stack rounds on top of each other at short range.
The characters who provide paid services in the Territory will make any Lotto win seem insubstantial.
I gathered that...Looks some interesting hunting though..pigs, scrub bulls, water buff to name a few...Not sure I could take the heat though; Poms generally do rain far better than heat!
RickyD if you go to the custom rilfe section there is a thread there about someone winning a free grey bull precision stock. Thats just one thread of many.
I would dispute that, in the '80s I purchased some extremely fine skill....namely at 45 Cobra st in Dubbo, and at a place at St Kilda Junction in Melbourne.
I gathered that...Looks some interesting hunting though..pigs, scrub bulls, water buff to name a few...Not sure I could take the heat though; Poms generally do rain far better than heat!
At the moment around here, so do we...it is as wet as a shag around here, we got another inch yesterday and it is forecast rain for the rest of the week.
Besides, as much harrassing and bragging as BS has done here over the years, I'm interested to see if he'll own up and do the shoot with this Burns......
I don't know a thing about this Burns guy or what he's selling but I do know you can't buy skill. No matter how accurate his rifles, or how well thought out and inclusive his system, the man behind the trigger still has to have perfect trigger control, repeatability in hold, and follow through to make the long shots or stack rounds on top of each other at short range.
I disagree to an extent..the physical shooting skills needed like trigger control are the same whether your shooting at 100yards or 1000yards..Somebody who can group sub MOA at 100 yards has the same potential at 1000yards..What stops them is knowledge, or lack of it..some folks have no idea what there bullets are doing at a given range and have no idea on the effects of wind ect..
From what I've read about Burn's approach is that he is doing some of the develpment work ie supply's a load that groups well and works out the drop and wind ect and supplys the info to the buyer of his rifle.
Basically he supply's a forumla and the equipment and if folks follow that formula and couple it with their existing skills, they should be able to hit at long range.
A lot of folks are happy with that approach as they simply want to be able to "dial and shoot" and have no real interest in the "whys" and have no desire to learn, nor do the work-ups ect for themselves..
It would not be my cup of tea, but the fact people are buying the system suggests it works and customers are happy...
You really don't pay too close attention around here, do you?
LOTS of folks, on both sides of the debate, and a bunch sitting in the middle, would love to see it happen, one way or another. Some will celebrate, some will cry. And post counts all around will go WAY up!
I don't think anyone's got a problem with John or Sticks ability to actually shoot a rifle. Not that I've seen but I think the rub for a lot of people is the believe that some hold that John's the only guy who can do it and his "system" is the only one that gets the job done. Or even the best one to use.
My issue has and will be John's ball lickers that immediately have the reaction that if you disagree with John's assertions about certain things - you're jealous of his rifle price.
Sorry - that don't fly. Not with me. I disagree with John's hubris and assertion that an aluminum bedding block, wrapped in fiberglass and connected to an action/scope made of dissimilar metals can magically counteract the "thermal expansion" of the scope and how it affects your zero. Do zeros shift? yes but that particular assumption does NOT fly with me re the block.
YMMV and quite honestly - I don't care if they shoot or when etc. I know who I trust to answer my questions without BS and they've always worked EXACTLY as they were held out to. In the past and I've no reason to believe that won't continue in the future.
Teal if its not jealousy about the rifle price then what is it? Jealousy over the ability to kill things at long range? If someone post pics of a Echols or a jarrett rifle and everyone drools over it. Now people say that a custom rifle built by a paying sponsor of this site is not worth 6k. Its got to be something causing all the crap.
On other sites leupolds are considred junk but that it not the opinion here because everyone shoots leupold but I don't know of anyone here (other than Burns) that shoots one of his rifles. So how does everyone come to the opinion that they are not worth the money?....hmmm.
OK, but you didn't disagree, by my read. I tried to state that the skill needed to shoot long is essentially the same as to one hole targets at 100. Drop and wind are the only other variables to go long.
Drop and wind information can be easily calc'd and dialed into the appropriate scope, if known. And with a wind gauge and range finder, those variables are quickly obtainable. Of course, at long yardage, and in the right topography, the wind may do multiple things before the target is reached. That makes it harder and changes suitability for target shooting only and not for game.
But the skill to shoot one hole targets is not one that all shooters have or can obtain. That's a baseline for this, or any system to be effective.
If someone post pics of a Echols or a jarrett rifle and everyone drools over it. Now people say that a custom rifle built by a paying sponsor of this site is not worth 6k. Its got to be something causing all the crap. Dink
Dink,
Re the rifle build, I think a lot of folks here have issues because they feel the components used just don't add up to a 6k rifle.
For instance, from readings another thread it seems the stock is not an A grade McMillan or Manners, but a B grade B&C. Ditto the optics which are the less expensive Leupold rather than say the more expensive S&B PM2, Premier, even Nighforce..So they tot up the cost of the components used and figure they don't equate to anywhere near a $6K build...
Of course that doesn't factor in the cost of load development and the fact the user is getting a ready to go "system" with all the long range work up already done..
Teal if its not jealousy about the rifle price then what is it?
I'm sitting 20 feet from a shotgun - used, that if sold, I could buy 3 of John's complete "systems". It's not the price of the rifle. Price tags with many zeros don't faze/intimidate me or give me a hard on. Small men are impressed by high prices.
Professionally and privately I've known and dealt with people on that make the Forbes lists - I don't get jealous over money. Most have more than me, that's not hard to do.
Other sponsors (or "friends of the fire") have come aboard and been given rough treatment. They responded with much more tact than I've seen John. McMillan had been called out, Sisk was called out, Doug @ Cameraland had to deal with crap and they all dealt with it in a professional manner. John hasn't IMO.
My issue has and will be John's ball lickers that immediately have the reaction that if you disagree with John's assertions about certain things - you're jealous of his rifle price.
Change just a few words (I've made it easy and highlighted them for you), and the exact same could be said of the "other side" in this feud.
Other sponsors (or "friends of the fire") have come aboard and been given rough treatment. They responded with much more tact than I've seen John. McMillan had been called out, Sisk was called out, Doug @ Cameraland had to deal with crap and they all dealt with it in a professional manner. John hasn't IMO.
John has been remarkably good natured and thick skinned IMO as well as maintaining a healthy dose of good humor. Apparently we see things differently.
It's funny watching two grown men with over inflated ego's calling each other out. I don't see Stick getting on plane anytime soon to rub Burn's nose in it and perhaps Burn's should be careful of what he wishes for as well.
My issue has and will be John's ball lickers that immediately have the reaction that if you disagree with John's assertions about certain things - you're jealous of his rifle price.
Change just a few words (I've made it easy and highlighted them for you), and the exact same could be said of the "other side" in this feud.
+1 IMO it applies much more to the "other side" than it does to John.
My issue has and will be John's ball lickers that immediately have the reaction that if you disagree with John's assertions about certain things - you're jealous of his rifle price.
Change just a few words (I've made it easy and highlighted them for you), and the exact same could be said of the "other side" in this feud.
+1 IMO it applies much more to the "other side" than it does to John.
My issue has and will be John's ball lickers that immediately have the reaction that if you disagree with John's assertions about certain things - you're jealous of his rifle price.
Change just a few words (I've made it easy and highlighted them for you), and the exact same could be said of the "other side" in this feud.
+1 IMO it applies much more to the "other side" than it does to John.
+1, where is bs. John showed. But no bs yet.
It's best to judge a person by the quality of his enemies rather than friends...
Anyway, stalkers get little respect from me, since I have my own to compare with.
I have been reading this with interest. Stick just called me a liar. No reason other that his need to be the only one who knows anything. Got better things to do with my day today.
I have been reading this with interest. Stick just called me a liar. No reason other that his need to be the only one who knows anything. Got better things to do with my day today.
Well, nobody has said that Stick is not a lot of hard work......give him an argument, it is what he is after.
My opinion is they would both be suprised at how well the other could shoot. Probably they would be suprised at how much knowledge the other had also. Most of this was egged on by others but Stick loves to argue. Seems to me if you ask Stick a question he will give you a honest answer. If you try and argue with him or disagree you better have your facts straight or he will run with it. The fact that so many want to prove him wrong is funny and he plays the part for his and others entertainment. He always dangles the bait you dont have to take it. Run around saying "post your load" or "when and where" it dont bother him he could care less if anyone beleives him or can outshot him. Dont take the bait and you wont get a sore mouth. JMHO YMMV
I'm really surprised that Big Stick hasn't showed yet. The where'd the idiot go thread was a disappointment - definitely not Stick's best stuff. I'm hoping for better on this one. I couldn't care less what Burns is selling for what price or if one can out shoot the other. I do get a lot of laughs watching Big Stick at his best.
Well Lil Fish has been at it again but he made the mistake of posting some video of him shooting. What an incredible disappointment.
I offered to go to Alaska and video a little shooting competition between us and thank goodness he ran and hid. I can�t believe what a waste of my time and resources that little trip would have been.
Dude he couldn't hit the egg. He posts a video of misses and thinks it is good shooting.
500yd eggs are not difficult on a range. There is a reason you have never seen another 1000yd coyote on video.
John, I don't know you for sh&t, but I don't see where you are comming from. It's not like the egg was missed by several feet. Surley, even you, can do the MOA math between the egg and the coyote? Unless you were aiming for, and hit the coyote in the head, I don't see what you're crowing about?
You boys actually though Lil fish was some kinda shooter. What a joke he played on you.
John;
Right now, the only person damaging anything they value on this topic, is you.
To me, it just seems odd that a man with a company/product built around LR shooting, and a reputation to back that and built around LR shooting, would roll it in the muck so freely with absolutely nothing to gain.
'Tis yours to do something with; just seems odd to me the track chosen.
There is a huge difference in difficulty with a frontal coyote and a cold bore shot at 1017yds and an egg on the range at 500yds with practice rounds before and not being able to hit the egg ever.
You boys actually though Lil fish was some kinda shooter. What a joke he played on you.
John;
Right now, the only person damaging anything they value on this topic, is you.
To me, it just seems odd that a man with a company/product built around LR shooting, and a reputation to back that and built around LR shooting, would roll it in the muck so freely with absolutely nothing to gain.
'Tis yours to do something with; just seems odd to me the track chosen.
Sorry VA but Lil Fish has been up to his old tricks and this seems the best place to again put him in his place.
As you know I offered to shoot with him but he ran and hid. Now he wants to start again but after watching this sad sack shooting I am trying a new track.
It really is lucky for me he actually posted the video. Makes my job so much easier.
Trust me I would not be hear if this was not working for me. I have avoided the internet thing for a while but this is working very well.
You boys actually though Lil fish was some kinda shooter. What a joke he played on you.
John;
Right now, the only person damaging anything they value on this topic, is you.
To me, it just seems odd that a man with a company/product built around LR shooting, and a reputation to back that and built around LR shooting, would roll it in the muck so freely with absolutely nothing to gain.
'Tis yours to do something with; just seems odd to me the track chosen.
Sorry VA but Lil Fish has been up to his old tricks and this seems the best place to again put him in his place.
As you know I offered to shoot with him but he ran and hid. Now he wants to start again but after watching this sad sack shooting I am trying a new track.
It really is lucky for me he actually posted the video. Makes my job so much easier.
Trust me I would not be hear if this was not working for me. I have avoided the internet thing for a while but this is working very well.
Working to what end?
Can't fathom how this is driving business up, but if it is, well, have at it.
Personally, I think you're proving more points than you realize, but you're welcome to continue as you seem to think it's "working for" you.
I fail to understand why all this is such a BIG deal to you. You're spending a great deal of time and energy on this childishness John. This foolishness (following Stick and others from thread to thread), and your behavior isn't placing yourself nor your business in the best possible light....
You are such a first rate [bleep] it is ridiculous. At least Stick isn't trying to pedal a $2500 rifle for $6K around here. Anyone that would buy anything from you is a mental case.
Oh yeah, and I can hit eggs @ 600yds....As witnessed by 2 highly respected gunsmiths on this site.
Go back to your BOTW friends. Oh, I forgot, they hate you too. Is it "Brothers of the Wounded", or "Bring On The Wounding"?
You boys actually though Lil fish was some kinda shooter. What a joke he played on you.
John;
Right now, the only person damaging anything they value on this topic, is you.
To me, it just seems odd that a man with a company/product built around LR shooting, and a reputation to back that and built around LR shooting, would roll it in the muck so freely with absolutely nothing to gain.
'Tis yours to do something with; just seems odd to me the track chosen.
Sorry VA but Lil Fish has been up to his old tricks and this seems the best place to again put him in his place.
As you know I offered to shoot with him but he ran and hid. Now he wants to start again but after watching this sad sack shooting I am trying a new track.
It really is lucky for me he actually posted the video. Makes my job so much easier.
Trust me I would not be hear if this was not working for me. I have avoided the internet thing for a while but this is working very well.
Working to what end?
Can't fathom how this is driving business up, but if it is, well, have at it.
Personally, I think you're proving more points than you realize, but you're welcome to continue as you seem to think it's "working for" you.
Good luck.
If you can�t see how this is working then I would suggest you stay out of the custom rifle business.
I am not here to convince any of the nay sayers. You boys already have your mind made up and the facts don�t make a bit of difference.
The vast majority of the 30,000 member of this sight have no interest in taking on the likes of Lil Fish but they do enjoy my little funning with him. My PM box overfloweth if you know what I mean.
Getting some serious hunters to take a look at some video of our rifles and scopes working in the field is never a bad thing for someone in my buisness.
I make some damn good rifles and scopes and the silent majority here is beginning to take notice.
If you can�t see how this is working then I would suggest you stay out of the custom rifle business.
I am not here to convince any of the nay sayers. You boys already have your mind made up and the facts don�t make a bit of difference.
The vast majority of the 30,000 member of this sight have no interest in taking on the likes of Lil Fish but they do enjoy my little funning with him. My PM box overfloweth if you know what I mean.
Getting some serious hunters to take a look at some video of our rifles and scopes working in the field is never a bad thing for someone in my buisness.
I make some damn good rifles and scopes and the silent majority here is beginning to take notice.
Am thinking you're full of schit about the PM box overflowing with rifle business.
And, yes, I'm sure the "silent majority" is beginning to take notice of more than a few things.
The vast majority of the 30,000 member of this sight have no interest in taking on the likes of Lil Fish but they do enjoy my little funning with him. My PM box overfloweth if you know what I mean.
Oh chit... the PM support group post... came faster than I expected... soooo L24,Old'm, Whiskeyman... you can read'm like a F'n book.
The vast majority of the 30,000 member of this sight have no interest in taking on the likes of Lil Fish but they do enjoy my little funning with him. My PM box overfloweth if you know what I mean.
If you can�t see how this is working then I would suggest you stay out of the custom rifle business.
I am not here to convince any of the nay sayers. You boys already have your mind made up and the facts don�t make a bit of difference.
The vast majority of the 30,000 member of this sight have no interest in taking on the likes of Lil Fish but they do enjoy my little funning with him. My PM box overfloweth if you know what I mean.
Getting some serious hunters to take a look at some video of our rifles and scopes working in the field is never a bad thing for someone in my buisness.
I make some damn good rifles and scopes and the silent majority here is beginning to take notice.
Am thinking you're full of schit about the PM box overflowing with rifle business.
And, yes, I'm sure the "silent majority" is beginning to take notice of more than a few things.
VA,
I have been at the rifle game for more than a little while and have driven the direction of the LR hunting industry for more than a few years. I would not be wasting my time if this was not in my best interest.
Since I posted this video 3 hours ago over 500 views have been add to the thread. Not too hard to figure out.
Any thread I am on the views skyrocket because guys are interested in what I have to say.
Some think I am full of schitt and might be right but with the video the smart guys can separate the BS from the real deal.
A shrinking Violet on a forum like this will get eaten alive in short order. Why do you think no other custom builder will play this game with you boys??
Here you go john. My latest build in one of your favorite chamberings, 7mm RM. Got $3000 into it. Care to go over it, component by component with one of your $6K POS? Let me know if you do, it'll be fun. At least for one of us. Then even the people who don't know any better will know what a ripoff Greybull is, when they see this thing kicks your ass in every aspect........
A shrinking Violet on a forum like this will get eaten alive in short order. Why do you think no other custom builder will play this game with you boys??
Nope. They are "cookie cutter". One "proprietary" chambering. Same loads, same stocks, same barrels. No load development required for John, or very little......
Here you go john. My latest build in one of your favorite chamberings, 7mm RM. Got $3000 into it. Care to go over it, component by component with one of your $6K POS? Let me know if you do, it'll be fun. At least for one of us. Then even the people who don't know any better will know what a ripoff Greybull is, when they see this thing kicks your ass in every aspect........
Want to have a little shoot with me?? I know you Lil Fish fanboys always want to talk about components but seem to flee like cockroaches in the light when we talk shooting.
Haha - still couldn't give a schitt about this pecker measuring contest, but Big Stick's videos are amazing.
And Stick does them himself, with out a production crew or producer. Stick barely missed the egg in a wind that he used 3 1/2 MOA of windage, no animal would have survived. JB say an egg is easy at a range, but Stick wasn't at a range and he shot off of his pack.
Here you go john. My latest build in one of your favorite chamberings, 7mm RM. Got $3000 into it. Care to go over it, component by component with one of your $6K POS? Let me know if you do, it'll be fun. At least for one of us. Then even the people who don't know any better will know what a ripoff Greybull is, when they see this thing kicks your ass in every aspect........
Want to have a little shoot with me?? I know you Lil Fish fanboys always want to talk about components but seem to flee like cockroaches in the light when we talk shooting.
Here's the deal, John. I KNOW I can shoot. I believe you can shoot. No need to travel the country to prove it. Who wins wouldn't matter. If you had an honest bone in you, we could shoot each others rifles and prove that yours, for $3000 more, would not shoot an iota better, and yes, I'd bet on mine.
Keep pedaling your over-priced crap and trying to make up for it by offering shooting competitions to those who live 1000's of miles away. Those that have a clue, will continue to laugh in your face, as I am now.............
I worried at first that John might find the confrontational style of the campfire to be a problem. I no longer fret my purty little head over that.
I'd put John in the same class as many other in-your-face a-holes on this forum but 'cept for two rather major differences.
First, I have yet to see him pick on anyone who hadn't essentially started it. I've only seen him go after some of the longtime bullies around here. I'm ok with that. It's refreshing.
Second, the dude has a LOT to lose here- more than just pride- and he is overtly willing to literally put his product and talents against anyone here in a videotaped shooting contest. And frankly, a whole lot of erstwhile sharpshooters have gotten awfully weasely all of a sudden when offered this opportunity.
Finally, the bullies around here love to mock the concept of a silent majority that laughs at their childish antics in PM's. I can say with absolute authority that such a rebel network exists... lol... and count me in on the (I suspect rather large) group of guys that have PM'd John. He's not lying about that.
I have issues with John having such an obvious... "goal" with so many of his threads, it's a little disingenuous if you ask me. But if anyone of us wants to show we are better than him and his gear he's ready to prove what he claims and that's awfully hard not to respect.
Listen. I rarely get involved in such trivial mess. But some fellas, like myself, who have spent time at Bragg, Benning, Quantico, Devens, 29 Palms and the like know who makes the good kit. The men who build rifles for serious work exhibit the attitude of a professional, because that is who they deal with. Professionals.
Don't blow smoke up asses and think you won't get called out for childish challenges or insult. Some of us DO know what we are talking about.
You may smith a good stick, but you sure are lacking in other areas. Be careful with the challenges, as a well trained man using M24 build with a basic Mark IV M1 might humble you in front of your peers.
Let em go....it aint never gonna happen, but if it did who would yall bet on. In a coldbore 1 shot contest at say 1200 yards on a 1 MOA target, who would win?
Listen. I rarely get involved in such trivial mess. But some fellas, like myself, who have spent time at Bragg, Benning, Quantico, Devens, 29 Palms and the like know who makes the good kit. The men who build rifles for serious work exhibit the attitude of a professional, because that is who they deal with. Professionals.
Don't blow smoke up asses and think you won't get called out for childish challenges or insult. Some of us DO know what we are talking about.
You may smith a good stick, but you sure are lacking in other areas. Be careful with the challenges, as a well trained man using M24 build with a basic Mark IV M1 might humble you in front of your peers.
Well do you want to give it a shot or just run your mouth??
You sir are a world class chickenschitt and we both know it.
Yeah, okay.
I will admit, it takes balls to try to pedal your wares at the price you do. Again, let's go component by component of the 2 rifles. You want to? Or are you "chickenshitt"........
I worried at first that John might find the confrontational style of the campfire to be a problem. I no longer fret my purty little head over that.
I'd put John in the same class as many other in-your-face a-holes on this forum but 'cept for two rather major differences.
First, I have yet to see him pick on anyone who hadn't essentially started it. I've only seen him go after some of the longtime bullies around here. I'm ok with that. It's refreshing.
Second, the dude has a LOT to lose here- more than just pride- and he is overtly willing to literally put his product and talents against anyone here in a videotaped shooting contest. And frankly, a whole lot of erstwhile sharpshooters have gotten awfuy weasely all of a sudden when offered this opportunity.
Finally, the bullies around here love to mock the concept of a silent majority that laughs at their childish antics in PM's. I can say with absolute authority that such a rebel network exists... lol... and count me in on the (I suspect rather large) group of guys that have PM'd John. He's not lying about that.
I have issues with John having such an obvious... "goal" with so many of his threads, it's a little disingenuous if you ask me. But if anyone of us wants to show we are better than him and his gear he's ready to prove what he claims and that's awfully hard not to respect.
I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I PROMISE that his guns don't shoot better than the guy's who builds mine, and they cost about $800 plus the action.
I worried at first that John might find the confrontational style of the campfire to be a problem. I no longer fret my purty little head over that.
I'd put John in the same class as many other in-your-face a-holes on this forum but 'cept for two rather major differences.
First, I have yet to see him pick on anyone who hadn't essentially started it. I've only seen him go after some of the longtime bullies around here. I'm ok with that. It's refreshing.
Second, the dude has a LOT to lose here- more than just pride- and he is overtly willing to literally put his product and talents against anyone here in a videotaped shooting contest. And frankly, a whole lot of erstwhile sharpshooters have gotten awfully weasely all of a sudden when offered this opportunity.
Finally, the bullies around here love to mock the concept of a silent majority that laughs at their childish antics in PM's. I can say with absolute authority that such a rebel network exists... lol... and count me in on the (I suspect rather large) group of guys that have PM'd John. He's not lying about that.
I have issues with John having such an obvious... "goal" with so many of his threads, it's a little disingenuous if you ask me. But if anyone of us wants to show we are better than him and his gear he's ready to prove what he claims and that's awfully hard not to respect.
Jeff.. Do you think Burns has replaced you as the Forum Victim? You worked so hard for that title.. I'd hate to see you lose it.
Well do you want to give it a shot or just run your mouth??
I proved my ability to perform as trained to the men who it mattered most. I made it home. Some did not. Taught me am awful lot about humility. I'll simply continue to deal with those rifle builders who understand what that means.
I worried at first that John might find the confrontational style of the campfire to be a problem. I no longer fret my purty little head over that.
I'd put John in the same class as many other in-your-face a-holes on this forum but 'cept for two rather major differences.
First, I have yet to see him pick on anyone who hadn't essentially started it. I've only seen him go after some of the longtime bullies around here. I'm ok with that. It's refreshing.
Second, the dude has a LOT to lose here- more than just pride- and he is overtly willing to literally put his product and talents against anyone here in a videotaped shooting contest. And frankly, a whole lot of erstwhile sharpshooters have gotten awfully weasely all of a sudden when offered this opportunity.
Finally, the bullies around here love to mock the concept of a silent majority that laughs at their childish antics in PM's. I can say with absolute authority that such a rebel network exists... lol... and count me in on the (I suspect rather large) group of guys that have PM'd John. He's not lying about that.
I have issues with John having such an obvious... "goal" with so many of his threads, it's a little disingenuous if you ask me. But if anyone of us wants to show we are better than him and his gear he's ready to prove what he claims and that's awfully hard not to respect.
Jeff.. Do you think Burns has replaced you as the Forum Victim? You worked so hard for that title.. I'd hate to see you lose it.
Calvin,
Give us a call when you get out of the 400yd club.
Well do you want to give it a shot or just run your mouth??
I proved my ability to perform as trained to the men who it mattered most. I made it home. Some did not. Taught me am awful lot about humility. I'll simply continue to deal with those rifle builders who understand what that means.
Best of luck with your marketing plan.
Dude,
Well if you are looking for a builder who thinks his rifle are not the best then I am not you man.
When someone kicks my ass with a factory Rem and a Tasco I am gonna look pretty stupid if I say “What about components”.
Lil Fish fanboys worry about goofy schitt and real hunter want performance.
Again you are a world class chickenschitt.
Thanks for the bump.
So in other words, this is your way of saying you would not feel it in your best interest to post itemized lists of your rifle and my rifle so the general shooting public can see that I can build a far better specimen for half the price?
John; You're doing great, you've got them all worked up so just hang in there and trade blows like you are. You've got them coming from everywhere to read this thread and see what's causing all the comotion. One thing, though, John, even though you may have the lead and are feeling pretty skookum about it---do not start reciting in limericks! I repeat, do not use limericks at this time. Thank me later. I'll be watching.
I have issues with John having such an obvious... "goal" with so many of his threads, it's a little disingenuous if you ask me. But if anyone of us wants to show we are better than him and his gear he's ready to prove what he claims and that's awfully hard not to respect.
No he's not willing to prove that isequipment is better, because if he wqas he'd do as 2muchgun sugest and that would be testing of the equipment and taking the shooter out of the equation
I'll take your challenge. Next Aug. Make your plane ticket for Aug 15th to be exact. We'll use my range, since I'll be out of vacation time. It's a bit of a walk to get to my range though. It'll take about 14 hours of hiking to get there. 3k of elevation change. Sorry, no horses or trails. You might want to bring a sleeping bag and tent too.. Boots are sorta important. It'll be a 3 day trip.
Mr.Burns, You are sparing with folks that know,for the most part,a lot about rifles,ballistics,turrets,ect,ect... You are not the only one that has shot stuff from a long way away... I've stopped a mule deer over 500yds with a 340 Weatherby and it ain't a secret that only you know about... Your dick ain't any bigger than anybody else's here...And... I'd bet that Jeff Rost could out-shoot you any day of the week and twice on Sunday...
John; You're doing great, you've got them all worked up so just hang in there and trade blows like you are. You've got them coming from everywhere to read this thread and see what's causing all the comotion. One thing, though, John, even though you may have the lead and are feeling pretty skookum about it---do not start reciting in limericks! I repeat, do not use limericks at this time. Thank me later. I'll be watching.
Hey!! Limericks are a campfire-tested tool for confronting the absurdity of some of the chit that passes for debate around here!
When someone kicks my ass with a factory Rem and a Tasco I am gonna look pretty stupid if I say “What about components”.
Lil Fish fanboys worry about goofy schitt and real hunter want performance.
Again you are a world class chickenschitt.
Thanks for the bump.
So in other words, this is your way of saying you would not feel it in your best interest to post itemized lists of you rifle and my rifle so the general shooting public can see that I can build a far better specimen for half the price?
I really don't blame you........
2muchfan,
We are in total agreement here. I am saying that my scopes and rifles are best understood by those that value performance.
What always works so well after hunting season guys are remembering the chances they had to pass due to substandard equipment.
A few are looking for new boots but most are thinking about the rifle they carried.
Finally, the bullies around here love to mock the concept of a silent majority that laughs at their childish antics in PM's. I can say with absolute authority that such a rebel network exists... lol... and count me in on the (I suspect rather large) group of guys that have PM'd John. He's not lying about that.
Does Framis/Olddouche1942/Karen count as one or three?..
Well if you are looking for a builder who thinks his rifle are not the best then I am not you man.
As I said, best of luck with your marketing plan. I'm quite set with my own smith. He does not require me to pay his January mortgage payment, truck note and alimony payment for a stick built to my specs.
Let's cut all the BS. Burns has laid down the challenge. If any of you want to call him out, do it. If not, shut up. I've never heard so much bravado without any intention of backing it up. Put up or shut up. I wouldn't pay the kind of money for one of his rifles but if someone else does, more power to them. No class warfare democrat BS from me. I thought most on this forum were conservative in nature. I guess that I was wrong.
Finally, the bullies around here love to mock the concept of a silent majority that laughs at their childish antics in PM's. I can say with absolute authority that such a rebel network exists... lol... and count me in on the (I suspect rather large) group of guys that have PM'd John. He's not lying about that.
Does Framis/Olddouche1942/Karen count as one or three?..
I'll admit that I got a lot of PM's from guys (some I'd never seen post before) when I got Jeff O to suck on his barrel. Most of them resoundingly said that it was one of the funniest things they'd ever seen.
Mostly I get PM's asking for advice, loads, measurements of stuff, pictures of gear, etc.. You know, the stuff men talk about.
Well if you are looking for a builder who thinks his rifle are not the best then I am not you man.
As I said, best of luck with your marketing plan. I'm quite set with my own smith. He does not require me to pay his January mortgage payment, truck note and alimony payment for a stick built to my specs.
He prolly won't require you use "HIS" custom "proprietary" loads either...
I'll take your challenge. Next Aug. Make your plane ticket for Aug 15th to be exact. We'll use my range, since I'll be out of vacation time. It's a bit of a walk to get to my range though. It'll take about 14 hours of hiking to get there. 3k of elevation change. Sorry, no horses or trails. You might want to bring a sleeping bag and tent too.. Boots are sorta important. It'll be a 3 day trip.
We'll do 1k yards to make it easy.
You in?
Calvin,
An admitted 400yd shooter need some practice before he plays this game. I am not willing to waste my time and money flying to you to have a Lil Fish moment.
Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.
On the other hand you are welcome to show up here and give me a schooling.
There is an informal shoot in MT in the spring and you are most welcome there. Will you give me a commitment to showing or are you just blowing smoke like Lil Fish.
I'll take your challenge. Next Aug. Make your plane ticket for Aug 15th to be exact. We'll use my range, since I'll be out of vacation time. It's a bit of a walk to get to my range though. It'll take about 14 hours of hiking to get there. 3k of elevation change. Sorry, no horses or trails. You might want to bring a sleeping bag and tent too.. Boots are sorta important. It'll be a 3 day trip.
We'll do 1k yards to make it easy.
You in?
Calvin,
An admitted 400yd shooter need some practice before he plays this game. I am not willing to waste my time and money flying to you to have a Lil Fish moment.
Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.
On the other hand you are welcome to show up here and give me a schooling.
There is an informal shoot in MT in the spring and you are most welcome there. Will you give me a commitment to showing or are you just blowing smoke like Lil Fish.
Just as I thought, make the other guy travel and you figure that they want come because of the cost. Just as most have already figured
I'll take your challenge. Next Aug. Make your plane ticket for Aug 15th to be exact. We'll use my range, since I'll be out of vacation time. It's a bit of a walk to get to my range though. It'll take about 14 hours of hiking to get there. 3k of elevation change. Sorry, no horses or trails. You might want to bring a sleeping bag and tent too.. Boots are sorta important. It'll be a 3 day trip.
We'll do 1k yards to make it easy.
You in?
Calvin,
An admitted 400yd shooter need some practice before he plays this game. I am not willing to waste my time and money flying to you to have a Lil Fish moment.
Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.
On the other hand you are welcome to show up here and give me a schooling.
There is an informal shoot in MT in the spring and you are most welcome there. Will you give me a commitment to showing or are you just blowing smoke like Lil Fish.
What? You said you were willing to fly here to shoot? Why the change? Afraid you can't keep up?
When someone kicks my ass with a factory Rem and a Tasco I am gonna look pretty stupid if I say “What about components”.
Lil Fish fanboys worry about goofy schitt and real hunter want performance.
Again you are a world class chickenschitt.
Thanks for the bump.
So in other words, this is your way of saying you would not feel it in your best interest to post itemized lists of you rifle and my rifle so the general shooting public can see that I can build a far better specimen for half the price?
I really don't blame you........
2muchfan,
We are in total agreement here. I am saying that my scopes and rifles are best understood by those that value performance.
What always works so well after hunting season guys are remembering the chances they had to pass due to substandard equipment.
A few are looking for new boots but most are thinking about the rifle they carried.
C'mon John. List what we get for 6K and I'll list what I get the same for. Then I'll list what I can get that's far better for half of your price.
I have a new rifle at Kampfelds now. It's a true $6K rifle. But you don't even want to go head to head with a $3K rifle. Pretty sad. Chickenshitt, really.
I'll take your challenge. Next Aug. Make your plane ticket for Aug 15th to be exact. We'll use my range, since I'll be out of vacation time. It's a bit of a walk to get to my range though. It'll take about 14 hours of hiking to get there. 3k of elevation change. Sorry, no horses or trails. You might want to bring a sleeping bag and tent too.. Boots are sorta important. It'll be a 3 day trip.
We'll do 1k yards to make it easy.
You in?
Calvin,
An admitted 400yd shooter need some practice before he plays this game. I am not willing to waste my time and money flying to you to have a Lil Fish moment.
Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.
On the other hand you are welcome to show up here and give me a schooling.
There is an informal shoot in MT in the spring and you are most welcome there. Will you give me a commitment to showing or are you just blowing smoke like Lil Fish.
Sounds to me like you got called out and declined. Made a puzzy at your own game......WOW
I'll take your challenge. Next Aug. Make your plane ticket for Aug 15th to be exact. We'll use my range, since I'll be out of vacation time. It's a bit of a walk to get to my range though. It'll take about 14 hours of hiking to get there. 3k of elevation change. Sorry, no horses or trails. You might want to bring a sleeping bag and tent too.. Boots are sorta important. It'll be a 3 day trip.
We'll do 1k yards to make it easy.
You in?
Calvin,
An admitted 400yd shooter need some practice before he plays this game. I am not willing to waste my time and money flying to you to have a Lil Fish moment.
Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.
On the other hand you are welcome to show up here and give me a schooling.
There is an informal shoot in MT in the spring and you are most welcome there. Will you give me a commitment to showing or are you just blowing smoke like Lil Fish.
What? You said you were willing to fly here to shoot? Why the change? Afraid you can't keep up?
Oh Brother,
Wow you got me Calvin, an admitted 400yd shooter has now but my big mouth in it's place. You may now got to bed with a smile on your face.
Or maybe Lil Fish had you boys so fooled it was worth a trip to kick his sorry azz arounds the range?? Wonder which it was and why now you grow a set and want to play?? All BS aside I actually have some high hopes for you when it all ends. Makes this time kinda fun for me.
Has anybody checked the views lately?? Started at 2500
Calvin's contest sounds fun to me, though lowly ol' me obviously ain't invited. I'd do it, though I'd expect he'd beat me. I'd do it just to get into some awesome country with a guy who knew the area!
I'd have on of those 60% Sitka tags in my wallet and would be ready to pack out some meat, too.
I'll take your challenge. Next Aug. Make your plane ticket for Aug 15th to be exact. We'll use my range, since I'll be out of vacation time. It's a bit of a walk to get to my range though. It'll take about 14 hours of hiking to get there. 3k of elevation change. Sorry, no horses or trails. You might want to bring a sleeping bag and tent too.. Boots are sorta important. It'll be a 3 day trip.
We'll do 1k yards to make it easy.
You in?
Calvin,
An admitted 400yd shooter need some practice before he plays this game. I am not willing to waste my time and money flying to you to have a Lil Fish moment.
Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.
On the other hand you are welcome to show up here and give me a schooling.
There is an informal shoot in MT in the spring and you are most welcome there. Will you give me a commitment to showing or are you just blowing smoke like Lil Fish.
What? You said you were willing to fly here to shoot? Why the change? Afraid you can't keep up?
Oh Brother,
Wow you got me Calvin, an admitted 400yd shooter has now but my big mouth in it's place. You may now got to bed with a smile on your face.
Or maybe Lil Fish had you boys so fooled it was worth a trip to kick his sorry azz arounds the range?? Wonder which it was and why now you grow a set and want to play?? All BS aside I actually have some high hopes for you when it all ends. Makes this time kinda fun for me.
Has anybody checked the views lately?? Started at 2500
Calvin Wins! He took you up on your challenge and you failed to accept. Time to fade into the sunset and come back when you can back your words. Congrats on the win Calvin. You have won by default.
It's no secret that I have absolutely no interest in the wares you're peddling, nor do I personally see the "value" for the money being charged.
That's my opinion, and quite honestly, irrelevant as the market will dictate what you can charge for your product. I have absolutely no issue nor begrudge you that, as it's the American Way.
Where I find exception, and believe the root for much of the dissent, is you failing to compare apples to apples.
It would seem to me, if you truly wanted to pit your product against the competition, it would be an honest evaluation of the product itself.
As has been previously mentioned, a neutral third party agreed upon by all directly involved could evaluate the equipment side by side in an unbiased, controlled test.
Your challenge the way I read it, boils down to simply pitting your shooting skills against another....
I thought it was suppose to be about your product (standing on it's own merit) and not your ego??
Burns New to this thread so thought I better check out these rifles. Looked on the website but didn't get a lot of info for the rifle. Who makes the barrles for you? How about the stocks? The website says you designed the stock, but who makes it? Trigger? Why remington actions? Nothing against remington, as I have several made on 700s and M7s, but would have thought there were better actions to start with for this type rifle.
Burns New to this thread so thought I better check out these rifles. Looked on the website but didn't get a lot of info for the rifle. Who makes the barrles for you? How about the stocks? The website says you designed the stock, but who makes it? Trigger? Why remington actions? Nothing against remington, as I have several made on 700s and M7s, but would have thought there were better actions to start with for this type rifle.
Keep hunting son, the answers come to those that really want them.
If you hunted with me, you'd see more blacktails in one day than you've seen in your whole life. But like you said, you ain't invited..
I know I'm not. You are livin' large up there and good for you. A lot of what we've bonked heads on has been when you falsely extrapolate from your insanely game-rich enviro to other locales... but you are young, and not a bad dude, so like it or not I give you a pass <grin>.
Calvin Wins! He took you up on your challenge and you failed to accept.
Dude, he asked him to go on a 3hr hiking trip together. I wouldn't accept that either, sounds gay. [/quote]
I suppose, if that's the way your mind leans.
With a guy like Calvin, sounds like a hard-azz adventure to me. I'd be honored to hit the mountains with a lot of guys here even if they could outshoot me.
Burns New to this thread so thought I better check out these rifles. Looked on the website but didn't get a lot of info for the rifle. Who makes the barrles for you? How about the stocks? The website says you designed the stock, but who makes it? Trigger? Why remington actions? Nothing against remington, as I have several made on 700s and M7s, but would have thought there were better actions to start with for this type rifle.
Keep hunting son, the answers come to those that really want them.
Now why in hell would you address a man, who is one of the first 300 original members of this site as "son?" He asked pertinent questions and expected honest answers.
If you hunted with me, you'd see more blacktails in one day than you've seen in your whole life. But like you said, you ain't invited..
I know I'm not. You are livin' large up there and good for you. A lot of what we've bonked heads on has been when you falsely extrapolate from your insanely game-rich enviro to other locales... but you are young, and not a bad dude, so like it or not I give you a pass <grin>.
In all fairness, I'll see more bucks in one day than many locals will see in many seasons. But I put in the effort.
Burns New to this thread so thought I better check out these rifles. Looked on the website but didn't get a lot of info for the rifle. Who makes the barrles for you? How about the stocks? The website says you designed the stock, but who makes it? Trigger? Why remington actions? Nothing against remington, as I have several made on 700s and M7s, but would have thought there were better actions to start with for this type rifle.
Keep hunting son, the answers come to those that really want them.
First off I'm not your son. Second, I went to what I assume is your website to check out the product you make. I wouldn't give a smith $500 without knowing the components, much less $6000. Are you offended that I want to know these things?
I don't have a dog in this fight, just trying to get some info. I can see now why this has turned into such a pissing match.
It's no secret that I have absolutely no interest in the wares you're peddling, nor do I personally see the "value" for the money being charged.
That's my opinion, and quite honestly, irrelevant as the market will dictate what you can charge for your product. I have absolutely no issue nor begrudge you that, as it's the American Way.
Where I find exception, and believe the root for much of the dissent, is you failing to compare apples to apples.
It would seem to me, if you truly wanted to pit your product against the competition, it would be an honest evaluation of the product itself.
As has been previously mentioned, a neutral third party agreed upon by all directly involved could evaluate the equipment side by side in an unbiased, controlled test.
Your challenge the way I read it, boils down to simply pitting your shooting skills against another....
I thought it was suppose to be about your product (standing on it's own merit) and not your ego??
Here you go john. My latest build in one of your favorite chamberings, 7mm RM. Got $3000 into it. Care to go over it, component by component with one of your $6K POS? Let me know if you do, it'll be fun. At least for one of us. Then even the people who don't know any better will know what a ripoff Greybull is, when they see this thing kicks your ass in every aspect........
So, I guess the "challenge" you issue is only for the guys who you choose, on your terms. Interesting.
Calvin,
Not shown eh. Schit dude I don't balme you. Nothing good gonna happen unless you open your mind. MT in the spring.
Grow a set and come play with the big boys.
Calvin is the BIG BOY and he took your challenge and you are the one that needs to grow a set and accept his challenge under REAL HUNTING type conditions. After all that is what you claim that your system is all about.
Burns New to this thread so thought I better check out these rifles. Looked on the website but didn't get a lot of info for the rifle. Who makes the barrles for you? How about the stocks? The website says you designed the stock, but who makes it? Trigger? Why remington actions? Nothing against remington, as I have several made on 700s and M7s, but would have thought there were better actions to start with for this type rifle.
Keep hunting son, the answers come to those that really want them.
Wow....
You certainly are one helluva businessman. Pretty harsh response to a guy asking HONEST questions about the product you're selling.
If there is one thing I know, posting schit like that is a surefire way to make sure your business isn't around very long.
I'd be interested in knowing a bit of the details regarding the components, as I highly doubt they are Top Secret clearance.
If you hunted with me, you'd see more blacktails in one day than you've seen in your whole life. But like you said, you ain't invited..
I know I'm not. You are livin' large up there and good for you. A lot of what we've bonked heads on has been when you falsely extrapolate from your insanely game-rich enviro to other locales... but you are young, and not a bad dude, so like it or not I give you a pass <grin>.
In all fairness, I'll see more bucks in one day than many locals will see in many seasons. But I put in the effort.
Ayup. It would appear to be the case.
We'd better stop before we get accused of catching the gay <g>.
Burns New to this thread so thought I better check out these rifles. Looked on the website but didn't get a lot of info for the rifle. Who makes the barrles for you? How about the stocks? The website says you designed the stock, but who makes it? Trigger? Why remington actions? Nothing against remington, as I have several made on 700s and M7s, but would have thought there were better actions to start with for this type rifle.
Keep hunting son, the answers come to those that really want them.
Wow....
You certainly are one helluva businessman. Pretty harsh response to a guy asking HONEST questions about the product you're selling.
If there is one thing I know, posting schit like that is a surefire way to make sure your business isn't around very long.
I'd be interested in knowing a bit of the details regarding the components, as I highly doubt they are Top Secret clearance.
That's the other issue that's rubbing folks the wrong way.
The dude is coming on here to make a buck or two, and comes across totally unprofessional.
Yeah right... being an asshat and condescending is really going to inspire confidence and have people beating down his doors to hand over their hard earn money.
If you think a high post count is something to brag about you are in essence showing how new you are to the Campfire.
Yea I am sure all the sponsor of this wonderful site wish no one was talking about their products. RD you a have a great future in the marketing business.
Anybody checked the views as I started my vid post at 2500.
So, I guess the "challenge" you issue is only for the guys who you choose, on your terms. Interesting.
Calvin,
Not shown eh. Schit dude I don't balme you. Nothing good gonna happen unless you open your mind. MT in the spring.
Grow a set and come play with the big boys.
Calvin is the BIG BOY and he took your challenge and you are the one that needs to grow a set and accept his challenge under REAL HUNTING type conditions. After all that is what you claim that your system is all about.
Oh come on JWP. A three day backpack trip in AK just to shoot rifles?
That's like saying, my car is faster than yours!! So first, we drive to Death Valley in July, then we race.
I'm not EVER gonna buy a Greybull rifle; like many here I can better apply $6k. But let's keep our noggins pointed forwards here. This pizzin' match is all about finding a way to pit Stick agin' John, mano y mano, in a shooting match with reasonable-spec "hunting" rifles.
So you think they are talking about your "products".......I'd suggest you stay out of the marketing business and focus more on selling baseball caps and videos.
Videos are good business. Trust me as I made the biggest selling LR hunting videos in the world. Guys love to see good equipment doing the deed under harsh conditions.
Rifles are second, but still good if you can deliver class leading performance.
Burns New to this thread so thought I better check out these rifles. Looked on the website but didn't get a lot of info for the rifle. Who makes the barrles for you? How about the stocks? The website says you designed the stock, but who makes it? Trigger? Why remington actions? Nothing against remington, as I have several made on 700s and M7s, but would have thought there were better actions to start with for this type rifle.
Keep hunting son, the answers come to those that really want them.
First off I'm not your son. Second, I went to what I assume is your website to check out the product you make. I wouldn't give a smith $500 without knowing the components, much less $6000. Are you offended that I want to know these things?
I don't have a dog in this fight, just trying to get some info. I can see now why this has turned into such a pissing match.
I assume by your silence and not pointing me in the right direction to find these answers, your either want to keep them secret or don't know yourself. I've a few custom guns and no one has ever had any problem telling me the source of every thing going into it. I think I'll keep it that way. Good luck in your business.
Burns I think all you have done is hurt your buisness with all this crap.I have never seen someone turn so many against themselves, especially a buisness owner who should know better. No good will come of this...Oh and by the way your rifle is way over priced period.. Add up the pieces and it is no where near your asking price.
High post count, yes, but are you winning friends and influencing people? Or is this thread having the opposite effect.
I don't shoot critters long range (and wonder aloud if it "was wounded and ran off") nor do I purchase spendy rifles. If I did you have convinced me to look elsewhere.
High post count, yes, but are you winning friends and influencing people? Or is this thread having the opposite effect.
I don't shoot critters long range (and wonder aloud if it "was wounded and ran off") nor do I purchase spendy rifles. If I did you have convinced me to look elsewhere.
You have no interest in my product and don�t like me. Gottcha.
I will do my best to never interject myself in any thread about you. Wonder why you are in a thread with my name in the subject??
Just adding to the view and post count? If so thank you.
It has to be studied, reading and viewing alone does not suffice.
There were a few folks who lived it....barely
Yes, it is for the true believers, not to be defiled by infidels, there must be a test taken under the watchful eyes of the grand Poo Poo, before admittance... so it is written...
It covered the gamut...but girl and fish photos predominated...good thing someone pulled the plug on it, the innanet was running out of pics to post....
Rifles are second, but still good if you can deliver class leading performance.
Class? You ignored my post that was as respectful as I could make it... Class... Charlie Sisk has class... You... Not so much...
Yes, it is indeed interesting and quite telling to note the stark difference between how Charlie Sisk and Hill Country Rifles handled criticisms and conducted themselves professionally and with class compared to Burns....
I build a product and it is relatively expensive in the market. I think it is top end but some would argue that.
How in the world do any of you goof balls think more exposure is a bad thing? When a guy has been successful in life and can afford a premium custom built rifle do you yokels think he will not be able to separate wheat from chaff??
We provide the best bang for the buck and no one has ever been willing to shoot against me (Pat, Scenarshooter is the exception).
BS walks and the real deal is evident for those that are interested.
It's no secret that I have absolutely no interest in the wares you're peddling, nor do I personally see the "value" for the money being charged.
That's my opinion, and quite honestly, irrelevant as the market will dictate what you can charge for your product. I have absolutely no issue nor begrudge you that, as it's the American Way.
Where I find exception, and believe the root for much of the dissent, is you failing to compare apples to apples.
It would seem to me, if you truly wanted to pit your product against the competition, it would be an honest evaluation of the product itself.
As has been previously mentioned, a neutral third party agreed upon by all directly involved could evaluate the equipment side by side in an unbiased, controlled test.
Your challenge the way I read it, boils down to simply pitting your shooting skills against another....
I thought it was suppose to be about your product (standing on it's own merit) and not your ego??
Since it hasn't been refuted, I suppose it's safe to conclude that all this bruhaha honestly isn't about your cobbled together rifle.....
My bad, I mean your "custom" turn-key package ....and how it compares to the competition on it's own merit.
But rather, about your ego and your bruised feelings??
I build a product and it is relatively expensive in the market. I think it is top end but some would argue that.
How in the world do any of you goof balls think more exposure is a bad thing? When a guy has been successful in life and can afford a premium custom built rifle do you yokels think he will not be able to separate wheat from chaff??
We provide the best bang for the buck and no one has ever been willing to shoot against me (Pat, Scenarshooter is the exception).
BS walks and the real deal is evident for those that are interested.
John, I will shoot against you. With this I have no issues. I live a hell of lot closer than Calvin does. Good friends of mine have 10,000 acres we can shoot at. I have a spare room and kitchen in the basement. What I don't have is a production crew, camera man, and a pocket full of cash. So before you change the rules, I will state flat out that I simply can't afford to come visit you for this challange. What are we at anyway? 1 MOA target at 1500 yards, with one shot? I accept. I know the outcome, as most real shooters here, yourself included, already. When will you be up? I would like a little time to do some load development, and practice. A Chinook here will last about a week, and are fairly predictable. We had plus 6 today, and low winds, only about 10 to 15 mph. Is there anything else I can provide? I have a freezer full of fine steaks, of several kinds, a fairly well stocked bar, and a fridge full of beer. I have a few decent rifles, but nothing close to $6K worth. What do you say? If nothing else, you'll leave well fed, and watered.
We provide the best bang for the buck and no one has ever been willing to shoot against me (Pat, Scenarshooter is the exception).
BS walks and the real deal is evident for those that are interested.
I thought it was about your "turn-key" package and how it stacked up to the competition on it's own individual merit, and not about your ego??
Or are you going to do the shooting for all your customers as well??
It's never about how well his rifle shoots compared to another rifle, it's always about him wanting to shoot against someone eles. It's never about his scope VS another either
Hell you don't even know what barrel he uses, whether or not it is a"cut" rifled barrel or a "buttoned"
I believe that HS Precision makes his stocks. May be wrong
Best bang for the buck,and relatively inexpensive? You have truly lost your mind Burns..It is no where near true to either statement.A superb long range rifle can easily be built for $2,500 with known components. You are unbelievable and just plain whacko..You don't even offer calibers that most long range guys want to build on...You really are entertaining though you make me laugh just like best of the west.
I build a product and it is relatively expensive in the market. I think it is top end but some would argue that.
How in the world do any of you goof balls think more exposure is a bad thing? When a guy has been successful in life and can afford a premium custom built rifle do you yokels think he will not be able to separate wheat from chaff??
We provide the best bang for the buck and no one has ever been willing to shoot against me (Pat, Scenarshooter is the exception).
BS walks and the real deal is evident for those that are interested.
John, I will shoot against you. With this I have no issues. I live a hell of lot closer than Calvin does. Good friends of mine have 10,000 acres we can shoot at. I have a spare room and kitchen in the basement. What I don't have is a production crew, camera man, and a pocket full of cash. So before you change the rules, I will state flat out that I simply can't afford to come visit you for this challange. What are we at anyway? 1 MOA target at 1500 yards, with one shot? I accept. I know the outcome, as most real shooters here, yourself included, already. When will you be up? I would like a little time to do some load development, and practice. A Chinook here will last about a week, and are fairly predictable. We had plus 6 today, and low winds, only about 10 to 15 mph. Is there anything else I can provide? I have a freezer full of fine steaks, of several kinds, a fairly well stocked bar, and a fridge full of beer. I have a few decent rifles, but nothing close to $6K worth. What do you say? If nothing else, you'll leave well fed, and watered.
I build a product and it is relatively expensive in the market. I think it is top end but some would argue that.
How in the world do any of you goof balls think more exposure is a bad thing? When a guy has been successful in life and can afford a premium custom built rifle do you yokels think he will not be able to separate wheat from chaff??
We provide the best bang for the buck and no one has ever been willing to shoot against me (Pat, Scenarshooter is the exception).
BS walks and the real deal is evident for those that are interested.
John, I will shoot against you. With this I have no issues. I live a hell of lot closer than Calvin does. Good friends of mine have 10,000 acres we can shoot at. I have a spare room and kitchen in the basement. What I don't have is a production crew, camera man, and a pocket full of cash. So before you change the rules, I will state flat out that I simply can't afford to come visit you for this challange. What are we at anyway? 1 MOA target at 1500 yards, with one shot? I accept. I know the outcome, as most real shooters here, yourself included, already. When will you be up? I would like a little time to do some load development, and practice. A Chinook here will last about a week, and are fairly predictable. We had plus 6 today, and low winds, only about 10 to 15 mph. Is there anything else I can provide? I have a freezer full of fine steaks, of several kinds, a fairly well stocked bar, and a fridge full of beer. I have a few decent rifles, but nothing close to $6K worth. What do you say? If nothing else, you'll leave well fed, and watered.
R.
Bump for John, in case he got side-tracked...
He is ignoring you. He isn't going to go anywhere he is all talk
I think someone hear is getting their rocks off on the post count, as if believing the 'greater aire time' might mean the lathe will start turning.......
Big Stick shot VERY respectable off a pack, and if he was peddling a 2k rifle as a 6k, he would have 'edited' his video, and not made the final release until he had done all the 'foreplay' but instead of wounding things before making a hit to show on a vid, he hit wood. Had that been game, it'd been dead the first shot.
What I know is this, my gunsmith, and the maker of the action of my latest rifle, both are in the Hall of Fame and have proven their skills, and are too busy working on customers rifles and have no ego nor interest in wasting time in pissing contests on the web. Top mfg. of actions, components, and smith work, are too busy to have time to posts and are too concerned w/delivering value, quality, and timely orders, than worry w/ego's.
Instead, their reputation has been built w/proven products w/quality work, giving the customers good value for the dollar, and they get plenty of business by word of mouth.
When a businessman can survive and thrive w/o pushing their product(s), they must be delivering a good/great product at a good/great price.
Now what we need here for the challenger, is to have a 'Pink Slip' contest.
One Greybull Rifle against whoever accepts the challenge. The winner takes the loser's rifle. I'd hate to be bragging on my stuff, and lose. One could never re-gain face. Then a never ending cycle of winning the next contest/challenge would begin.
You know, you take a fighter, Ali, Bruce Lee, Tyson, Kimbo, whoever, and you pick enough fights and sooner or later whoever THINKS he is the baddest on the block will get their azz whooped.
So it would be with a bragging rifleman. If anyone thinks THEIR equipment is THE BEST bar none, 100% of the time, they are foolish.
I avoid doing business with those people personally. Their line of logic is flawed, and if they fail to see it, they may fail in other areas as well, inc. those they get paid by others.
Just how I see it.
I have no doubt JB's rifles are decent, and that he can spin a turret and make hits, but I agree w/many above, equal or better rifles can be had for far less $$$. It's not my business to decide how other's spend their money.
My opinion... time would be better spent building the best products possible, and building relationships w/the community than carrying on with threads w/wasted bandwidth.
Positive energy/thinking/actions may just lead to better results.
Glad for all you regular folk that keep this thread interesting. I used to think Burns was an okay guy, even bought his LR vid set a few years back...but he's shown his true colors. What an azz.
Glad for all you regular folk that keep this thread interesting. I used to think Burns was an okay guy, even bought his LR vid set a few years back...but he's shown his true colors. What an azz.
Be careful Whip...you live in Montana too, and you can't hide from him....
You didnt know Ingwedog was a Seeing Eye Dog, did you??
Guessing as to what that poor dog has seen, it should be the one thats blind!
R.
OK that was mean....
I liked your unanswered challenge though...I about took you up on it, knowing full well I couldnt hit schitt at that range, but I coulda pilfered the fridge!
Glad for all you regular folk that keep this thread interesting. I used to think Burns was an okay guy, even bought his LR vid set a few years back...but he's shown his true colors. What an azz.
Be careful Whip...you live in Montana too, and you can't hide from him....
oooooooohhhh.....
Pick the side of the fence you want your azz on. You won't be able to hide behind your Lil Fish 223 AI.
I wouldn't want to shoot against him...he's got an unfair advantage...his ego and it's incredible force is a variable I've not factored into my shooting game. Could blow anything far off the mark...
You didnt know Ingwedog was a Seeing Eye Dog, did you??
Guessing as to what that poor dog has seen, it should be the one thats blind!
R.
OK that was mean....
I liked your unanswered challenge though...I about took you up on it, knowing full well I couldnt hit schitt at that range, but I coulda pilfered the fridge!
I would be truly blessed if the PooBah showed up at my humble home! You're welcome any time!
I'm thinking that this gives me licence to chase John all over the forum, and pester him like a little yappy dog because he didn't accept my offer? Is that how this works?
Seeing as to how you're awake.... have a question.
What bullet did you use in your 7x57 on your exploits across the big pond? My youngest boy and I are heading over there in June, and I'm leaning heavily towards the 175gr. NP
When a guy has been successful in life and can afford a premium custom built rifle
Please, John, explain again to us how when the only 'option' you offer to your customers is the ability to choose one of three chamberings, that you are somehow offering a "premium custom built rifle" ???
My money is on Burns. I'll put some green down if it happens, but I'm guessing it won't. I'll put money on Burns vs. Big Stick or any of his nutfleas and will give Burns $100 towards his plane ticket to Alaska to outshoot all of them together at once.
I might even fly up there myself just to watch and drink beer...
I'm thinking that this gives me licence to chase John all over the forum, and pester him like a little yappy dog because he didn't accept my offer? Is that how this works?
I'm thinking that this gives me licence to chase John all over the forum, and pester him like a little yappy dog because he didn't accept my offer? Is that how this works?
R.
Works for Burns, but I suppose you'll need to come up with a catchy nickname for him as he does for Larry.
Awww hell, let's just wound em, then we can practice our tracking skills too.
I wonder how many you did just that to, or missed before you made a video you could use?
Hell, I shot a antelope in the frickin head at a measured 632 yards once, second shot. Factory 700 and a core-lokt reloaded in a LC 30-06 brass. Lucky and I shouldn't a done it, but yippee skippy,maybe I coulda filmed it, and BSed my way into selling the skills to do it for idiots to buy, mayhaps.
sorry ... I should add that for a significant upcharge you allow one to also choose a different action for the build ... but then again, it's either a Remington action, or one other choice ... not "any other action" ...
so back to the question, how/why should your build be considered 'custom'?
Seeing as to how you're awake.... have a question.
What bullet did you use in your 7x57 on your exploits across the big pond? My youngest boy and I are heading over there in June, and I'm leaning heavily towards the 175gr. NP
I think our friend has retired for the night, but I do believe he doped and launched his bullets from Nantucket towards Africa and scored multiple one-shot kills....
Seeing as to how you're awake.... have a question.
What bullet did you use in your 7x57 on your exploits across the big pond? My youngest boy and I are heading over there in June, and I'm leaning heavily towards the 175gr. NP
I think our friend has retired for the night, but I do believe he doped and launched his bullets from Nantucket towards Africa and scored multiple one-shot kills....
I'm thinking that this gives me licence to chase John all over the forum, and pester him like a little yappy dog because he didn't accept my offer? Is that how this works?
R.
Yes lil man. Chase like the little yapping dog you are.
In Lil Fishes defense he at least pretended to be a shooter.
I'm thinking that this gives me licence to chase John all over the forum, and pester him like a little yappy dog because he didn't accept my offer? Is that how this works?
R.
Yes lil man. Chase like the little yapping dog you are.
In Lil Fishes defense he at least pretended to be a shooter.
I build a product and it is relatively expensive in the market. I think it is top end but some would argue that.
How in the world do any of you goof balls think more exposure is a bad thing? When a guy has been successful in life and can afford a premium custom built rifle do you yokels think he will not be able to separate wheat from chaff??
We provide the best bang for the buck and no one has ever been willing to shoot against me (Pat, Scenarshooter is the exception).
BS walks and the real deal is evident for those that are interested.
John, I will shoot against you. With this I have no issues. I live a hell of lot closer than Calvin does. Good friends of mine have 10,000 acres we can shoot at. I have a spare room and kitchen in the basement. What I don't have is a production crew, camera man, and a pocket full of cash. So before you change the rules, I will state flat out that I simply can't afford to come visit you for this challange. What are we at anyway? 1 MOA target at 1500 yards, with one shot? I accept. I know the outcome, as most real shooters here, yourself included, already. When will you be up? I would like a little time to do some load development, and practice. A Chinook here will last about a week, and are fairly predictable. We had plus 6 today, and low winds, only about 10 to 15 mph. Is there anything else I can provide? I have a freezer full of fine steaks, of several kinds, a fairly well stocked bar, and a fridge full of beer. I have a few decent rifles, but nothing close to $6K worth. What do you say? If nothing else, you'll leave well fed, and watered.
I'm thinking that this gives me licence to chase John all over the forum, and pester him like a little yappy dog because he didn't accept my offer? Is that how this works?
R.
Yes lil man. Chase like the little yapping dog you are.
In Lil Fishes defense he at least pretended to be a shooter.
You don't know anything about me, what I am, or what I may or may not pretend to be. I accepted your challenge, in a very real way, and this is the best you can come up with? I don't wish to spend the time, or effort, to chase you around, as quite frankly, its beneath me to do so. Don't whine and cry when someone gives you what you want. I accepted, and offered, the best I could, to make this happen. The fact that you don't want to accept, kind of de-rails what you are trying to accomplish, no?
Well, apparently what can be taken away from this exchange is that Burns is NOT confident in his "turn-key package" comparing favorably to the competition unless he's the one shooting the rifle??
It got real quiet real fast, eh? Where are all your fans now Burns? You must be real busy answering all those PM's? I would have thought you would have jumped at the chance to put me in my place? A "pretend" shooter should be fairly easy to show up, right?
Well, apparently what can be taken away from this exchange is that Burns is NOT confident in his "turn-key package" comparing favorably to the competition unless he's the one shooting the rifle??
If somebody is going to challenge somebody else to a shooting contest, don't be douchebag and expect THEM to travel to YOU. Get in your car, and go prove yourself.
If somebody is going to challenge somebody else to a shooting contest, don't be douchebag and expect THEM to travel to YOU. Get in your car, and go prove yourself.
My money is on Burns. I'll put some green down if it happens, but I'm guessing it won't. I'll put money on Burns vs. any of the Big Stick or any of his nutfleas and will give Burns $100 towards his plane ticket to Alaska to outshoot all of them together at once.
I might even fly up there myself just to watch and drink beer...
And at the end of the day this makes everything look like it was time well spent.
Any bull any where. I will get it out no matter what. You will not walk to far.
If somebody is going to challenge somebody else to a shooting contest, don't be douchebag and expect THEM to travel to YOU. Get in your car, and go prove yourself.
Truly a lesson in how NOT to sell products.
BMT
Indeed. Thus my inquiry and confusion... I thought he was here to market and sell his products, not his personal shooting skill?
If somebody is going to challenge somebody else to a shooting contest, don't be douchebag and expect THEM to travel to YOU. Get in your car, and go prove yourself.
I accepted a challenge, I didn't make one. I also don't have John's obviously flush bank account. I did the best I could, with what I have. Hell Kurt, you're invited up here too. I'd be glad to have you for a vist. Like I said, the fridge is always full of beer. Might be a little strong, but you can handle it.
If somebody is going to challenge somebody else to a shooting contest, don't be douchebag and expect THEM to travel to YOU. Get in your car, and go prove yourself.
Burns gets to stay home and every one eles has to travel. Yea right
I'm thinking that this gives me licence to chase John all over the forum, and pester him like a little yappy dog because he didn't accept my offer? Is that how this works?
R.
Yes lil man. Chase like the little yapping dog you are.
In Lil Fishes defense he at least pretended to be a shooter.
Pretended? Strong words from one who pretends to be a custom rifle builder. Stick showed his shooting for what it was, no 'DELETE, re-take, Edit' then post video.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
To a degree this is amazing to me.
I build a product and it is relatively expensive in the market. I think it is top end but some would argue that.
How in the world do any of you goof balls think more exposure is a bad thing? When a guy has been successful in life and can afford a premium custom built rifle do you yokels think he will not be able to separate wheat from chaff??
We provide the best bang for the buck and no one has ever been willing to shoot against me (Pat, Scenarshooter is the exception).
BS walks and the real deal is evident for those that are interested.
"relatively expensive" must be a 'relative phrase' but yes the Expensive part is true.
As to providing the 'best bang for the buck' how many of your rifles have won BR competition? Any competition? How many top shooters rifle's do you 'smith' since you are a 'custom rifle builder?'
I think the word "Premium" in the above post is an overstatement.
Premium to me denotes CUSTOM mfg. actions, TOP end custom stocks.
You charge 6K, which is about as high as any I know, yet use parts that are on the "LOWER End'....so calling Lower end components, a Premium Custom Rifle when assembled is just Bull...GreyBull.
A TRUE custom rifle, using a custom action, top end custom stock, trigger, barrel, etc. will not come up to half that price.
You are trying to disillusion those who watch your vids to accept that your vision of LR 'sniping' of game is what hunting is all about, w/an opportunity to feed their ego w/a turnkey package that will allow them to replicate that first shot w/clean kills. To tout the product, and your skills as exclusive only to Greybull, and yourself is a farce.
To promote what you do in the vids as hunting is highly debatable.
Lets not pretend you are any shakes as a shooter. Give me somethin before you want me to travel.
Lil Fish at least had a squad of fanboys. [/quote]
So now I have to qualify? I would think that it really wouldn't matter how I shot. I thought the challenge was open to anyone? What kind of proof would you like? I'm sure I could get a dead, frozen coyote, prop him up at 1500 yards, do some fancy filming and editing, then claim to have hit him in the face. Would that do it?
Well I guess that would be a start. When you challenge someone you need to actually be worthy of the challenge.
See when I challenged Lil Fish I agreed to travel because at that time he seemed like a worthy opponent based on the feedback from his fanboys on this site.
I actually agreed to travel to anywhere and at anytime but he ran and hid. That is how a challenge is done.
After seeing his sad sack shooting on videos he has posted I am really not interested in pursuing him anymore. It would just be a waste of time.
So what would make you a worthy opponent to test my shooting system against?? Please post some video of you doing great things.
I'm sure I could get a dead, frozen coyote, prop him up at 1500 yards, do some fancy filming and editing, then claim to have hit him in the face. Would that do it?
R.
Are you serious? I don't know John Burns or anybody that does, have never seen one of his rifles, and know about nothing of long range shooting, but it's pretty easy to tell that was authentic video.
John, I already told you, I don't have a production and film crew. I don't even own a video camera. I am smart enough to know where this is going. Even if I had a film crew, and showed you, me, doing great things, it wouldn't be enough, or it would be edited, or whatever. Right? Rest assured, I wouldn't invite you up here if I didn't feel we were equally matched. I guess that's the problem with issuing a challenge. You never know who will accept. For all you know, I could be the sh&t, and shoot twice as good as you with half the gear. What else can I tell you? Is there anything else you would like to know?
I'm sure I could get a dead, frozen coyote, prop him up at 1500 yards, do some fancy filming and editing, then claim to have hit him in the face. Would that do it?
R.
Are you serious? I don't know John Burns or anybody that does, have never seen one of his rifles, and know about nothing of long range shooting, but it's pretty easy to tell that was authentic video.
I'm sure I could get a dead, frozen coyote, prop him up at 1500 yards, do some fancy filming and editing, then claim to have hit him in the face. Would that do it?
R.
Are you serious? I don't know John Burns or anybody that does, have never seen one of his rifles, and know about nothing of long range shooting, but it's pretty easy to tell that was authentic video.
Very unlike you, to take much, seriously. Especially this?
Well...make it worth his while. Shoot for BATF yellow sheets. You put up what you and John agree would equal the cost of one of his systems, then ya'll shoot. If you lose, John walks away with your rifle(s). If John loses, you get a GreyBull system.
Funny you should ask that as I have shot from the south rim to the north rim. I had to pack the steel targets on my wonderful mules from one side to the other but it was worth it.
I hope to next year be able to shoot from the North rim to the south rim to check the difference in elevation.
I will be using an aluminum bedding block.
If you take the time it takes it will take less time. That is very true.
Well...make it worth his while. Shoot for BATF yellow sheets. You put up what you and John agree would equal the cost of one of his systems, then ya'll shoot. If you lose, John walks away with your rifle(s). If John loses, you get a GreyBull system.
ain't that kinda the point?
seems to me that more than a few in the know as to what it takes to put together a good long range shooter take issue with the price of the Greybull system.
I would think if you're gonna put up pink sheets, it's just for the rifle you're shooting with.
though it could go too far the other way i reckon
hate to see some jabroni show up with some pos ole squirrel rifle with a tasco aboard and say "if'n you can beat me, this baby is yores"
though I could give a flyin flip much one way or another.
still it brought some mild entertainment to the screen for which I'm grateful
Weatherby Vanguard, McMillan Sako Classic stock, Talley lwt rings, Leupold 3.5-10x40 with target turrets. Comes with 80 rounds of loaded ammo (100gr Barnes XLC).
Once payment is received I will tell the buyer about the trigger and maybe what I know about the barrel. I guarantee that I can hit a Crown Royal box at 700 yards with rifle (drop chart included at no additional cost). If buyer can't hit a Crown Royal box at 700 yards with said rifle they have the option of having me travel to their location so that I can shoot the Crown Royal box at 700 yards (weather conditions must be optimal). Buyer pays for my round-trip 1st class plane ticket to their location to shoot box, along with a minimum of 3 days per-diem.
Rifle isn't aluminum bedded but for an additional $500 I will happily install a tactical Reynolds aluminum foil skim bedding prior to shipment.
Only $4300 plus shipping.
If purchased prior to Christmas I will also include a signed photo of me with rifle in a classy Christmas card.
Calvin Wins! He took you up on your challenge and you failed to accept. Time to fade into the sunset and come back when you can back your words. Congrats on the win Calvin. You have won by default.
In classic Stick-suck fashion, deflect and avoid the original issue.
So, since Burns challenged Stick, and he has yet to accept (or even acknowledge), I expect that you'll be high fiving and congratulating Burns on HIS "win"??
Will BS "fade into the sunset and come back when you can back your words"?
Funny how about half a dozen of the faithful religiously run to Stick's defense, when HE won't accept the original challenge, but now it's congrats time on a secondary, diversionary, challenge?
Have we all forgotten what brought this whole thread on originally?
If you can�t see how this is working then I would suggest you stay out of the custom rifle business.
I am not here to convince any of the nay sayers. You boys already have your mind made up and the facts don�t make a bit of difference.
The vast majority of the 30,000 member of this sight have no interest in taking on the likes of Lil Fish but they do enjoy my little funning with him. My PM box overfloweth if you know what I mean.
Getting some serious hunters to take a look at some video of our rifles and scopes working in the field is never a bad thing for someone in my buisness.
I make some damn good rifles and scopes and the silent majority here is beginning to take notice.
Am thinking you're full of schit about the PM box overflowing with rifle business.
And, yes, I'm sure the "silent majority" is beginning to take notice of more than a few things.
VA,
I have been at the rifle game for more than a little while and have driven the direction of the LR hunting industry for more than a few years. I would not be wasting my time if this was not in my best interest.
Since I posted this video 3 hours ago over 500 views have been add to the thread. Not too hard to figure out.
Any thread I am on the views skyrocket because guys are interested in what I have to say.
Some think I am full of schitt and might be right but with the video the smart guys can separate the BS from the real deal.
A shrinking Violet on a forum like this will get eaten alive in short order. Why do you think no other custom builder will play this game with you boys??
Big difference from "views" (which could be anything from "that's cool" to "wtf" to "that/those guy(s) is/are (a) dick(s)", and a "PM box overfloweth" with work related stuff.
Big difference.
Your tactic is clear; it's the same as Terrible Owens, Chad Ochocinco, Latrell Sprewell, Anna Nicole Smith... "any publicity is good publicity".
At this point, the ONLY avenue that you've got left as far as this business plan is that folks will think (and buy) that you make a good product (which you undoubtedly do) regardless of price, and regardless of the personality of the guy making the product.
That, can work... though you're on a thin limb with little recourse if folks just start going "that guy is a douche, and no matter how good his stuff is, I can get it elsewhere from someone who ain't".
Your call, obviously, and good luck with it.
As for no other custom builder playing here, um.... you missed widely on that one as well.
Calvin Wins! He took you up on your challenge and you failed to accept. Time to fade into the sunset and come back when you can back your words. Congrats on the win Calvin. You have won by default.
In classic Stick-suck fashion, deflect and avoid the original issue.
So, since Burns challenged Stick, and he has yet to accept (or even acknowledge), I expect that you'll be high fiving and congratulating Burns on HIS "win"??
Will BS "fade into the sunset and come back when you can back your words"?
Funny how about half a dozen of the faithful religiously run to Stick's defense, when HE won't accept the original challenge, but now it's congrats time on a secondary, diversionary, challenge?
Have we all forgotten what brought this whole thread on originally?
Some things can always be counted on...
I don't know who challenged who in the beginning but from what I've read on this thread here is my take. Big Stick was challenged by JohnBurns and he did not accept. Burns Wins. Calvin challenges JohnBurns. Burns does not accept. Calvin Wins. Rman challenges JohnBurns. Burns does not accept. Rman Wins. Until someone challenges, and the challenge is accepted, the person who fails to accept is the loser. All the other BS gets thrown out as just that, BS. I don't care who can outshoot who. I just think that if you are man enough to run your mouth, and someone issues you a challenge, you accept and have at it or you look like the fool that you are.
You are selling at $4300 plus perks, GreyBull can be had for around $6000. 65BR says you can build one for half of a GreyBull - "You charge 6K, which is about as high as any I know, yet use parts that are on the "LOWER End'....so calling Lower end components, a Premium Custom Rifle when assembled is just Bull...GreyBull."
Where should a man put his money? Inquiring minds would like to know.
I'll ask again, just because you ignored it ... errr, I mean "missed it" ...
1. What makes your rifle a "custom"?
1a. What "options" do you offer on your "custom build" other than a choice between one of three chamberings, one of two actions, and either a factory or Jewel trigger?
2. Do you have a system for determining the proper location for mounting the scope w/ regards for your customer's hold & eye position? (meaning that some people like their scopes mounted further forward, and some like it mounted further back)
3. How do you handle potential customers of yours that may want one of the specs of your rifles changed? i.e. length of pull change, different color stock, different stock all together, different scope, different barrel length/contour, flutes, etc.?
Point being, w/out you answering any of these questions... if what you're doing is "custom", then just about any automobile coming off a dealer's lot is "custom" because there are a few pre-set options that come from the factory that the buyer gets to choose from ... but in the end, they are all "production line" items.
Not that I truly give a damn, but it would be kinda nice to hear you admit that you don't offer a custom anything ... you have a "high performance, high price, long range capable rifle package system" that may very well work nicely in and of itself, but in no way is "customized" per the individual user in terms of having the rifle "fitted" to the user, or even allowing the user to determine what he's paying for other than you saying "it will work well" ...
Now, given that what you're selling is your word that it will work well and out-perform anything else out there ... why the hell would you be chasing people around acting like a jackass, and dodging questions about what people may be paying for if they buy your product?
I could see the jackass thing being ok if you listed out every last detail of the build so that the potential buyer could know precisely what they are laying their money down to get ... but when you're hiding all the details, and acting like a baby, it really begs questions of integrity on your part ...
You gotta pay for all those expensive videos and hunts somehow, so you sell a rifle and scope for $6000. Advertising is part of the production costs, I guess.
We are in total agreement here. I am saying that my scopes and rifles are best understood by those that value performance.
Hey Burns, I posed this question awhile back in the custom rifles forum, but must have missed it. If you rifles/set-ups are the t!ts as they stand now, best there is as you have said... Then why are you having McMillan get set up to start molding you stocks? Just a question.
Big difference from "views" (which could be anything from "that's cool" to "wtf" to "that/those guy(s) is/are (a) dick(s)", and a "PM box overfloweth" with work related stuff.
Big difference.
Your tactic is clear; it's the same as Terrible Owens, Chad Ochocinco, Latrell Sprewell, Anna Nicole Smith... "any publicity is good publicity".
At this point, the ONLY avenue that you've got left as far as this business plan is that folks will think (and buy) that you make a good product (which you undoubtedly do) regardless of price, and regardless of the personality of the guy making the product.
That, can work... though you're on a thin limb with little recourse if folks just start going "that guy is a douche, and no matter how good his stuff is, I can get it elsewhere from someone who ain't".
Your call, obviously, and good luck with it.
As for no other custom builder playing here, um.... you missed widely on that one as well.
I have been following this(and a few other similar threads) and have come to the conclusion that I would not buy a rifle from this fellow. Plenty of other custom builders that don't get into pissing matches with guys on these kind of forums.
I don't get why people are jealous over what Burns charges for a rifle. I can't afford one but there are alot of people that can so who cares?
I don't get the whole "people are trying to buy skill" by buying a greybull rifle fight either. People are always trying to buying something they can't do. My sister's drive 50k-60k sports car's (maybe more) but the speed limit is the same if they drove a neon. They happen to have the money to buy the 50k-60k sports cars again who cares.
I think stick finally jumped on someone that is has probaly been called out many times before. If you make your living building custom rifles and shooting long range on video I have to believe that Burns has run into a loud mouth before.
Dink
I totally agree with what is said here. You can tell form seeing him on the TV shows John has put his time behind the trigger.
If you can�t see how this is working then I would suggest you stay out of the custom rifle business.
I am not here to convince any of the nay sayers. You boys already have your mind made up and the facts don�t make a bit of difference.
The vast majority of the 30,000 member of this sight have no interest in taking on the likes of Lil Fish but they do enjoy my little funning with him. My PM box overfloweth if you know what I mean.
Getting some serious hunters to take a look at some video of our rifles and scopes working in the field is never a bad thing for someone in my buisness.
I make some damn good rifles and scopes and the silent majority here is beginning to take notice.
Am thinking you're full of schit about the PM box overflowing with rifle business.
And, yes, I'm sure the "silent majority" is beginning to take notice of more than a few things.
VA,
I have been at the rifle game for more than a little while and have driven the direction of the LR hunting industry for more than a few years. I would not be wasting my time if this was not in my best interest.
Since I posted this video 3 hours ago over 500 views have been add to the thread. Not too hard to figure out.
Any thread I am on the views skyrocket because guys are interested in what I have to say.
Some think I am full of schitt and might be right but with the video the smart guys can separate the BS from the real deal.
A shrinking Violet on a forum like this will get eaten alive in short order. Why do you think no other custom builder will play this game with you boys??
Big difference from "views" (which could be anything from "that's cool" to "wtf" to "that/those guy(s) is/are (a) dick(s)", and a "PM box overfloweth" with work related stuff.
Big difference.
Your tactic is clear; it's the same as Terrible Owens, Chad Ochocinco, Latrell Sprewell, Anna Nicole Smith... "any publicity is good publicity".
At this point, the ONLY avenue that you've got left as far as this business plan is that folks will think (and buy) that you make a good product (which you undoubtedly do) regardless of price, and regardless of the personality of the guy making the product.
That, can work... though you're on a thin limb with little recourse if folks just start going "that guy is a douche, and no matter how good his stuff is, I can get it elsewhere from someone who ain't".
Your call, obviously, and good luck with it.
As for no other custom builder playing here, um.... you missed widely on that one as well.
I think your right in his beleif is that any publicity is good publicity. Here is my take on the whole thing. While many acquainted with the fire will see JB as a douche, many unaquainted could see his actions differently. They may see him as someone who stood up to a bully, then was attacked by the bullies cronies, and did not take no schit. Not saying that is my opinion, just another way people may see this thread. So his thinking may be right. He is not marketing his gun to hardcore guys anyway, but to newbies.
I aint got a thing for either BS or JB, nor do I have a thing against either one, but I wish they would do this shoot. I see either outcome as funny as hell. In the end BS probably already has what he wanted, JB slathering mad. So BS has already won.
I doubt that BS is one to run to run from any fight so it is my guess his hands have been tied by the management. Just guessing here, maybe he is just sitting at home giggling watching JB implode. (Oh damn a mental image of BS in his underware laughing like a mad man just popped into my head I may be sick now.) If BS hands have been tied, that would explain why so many come to protect BS cause I doubt otherwise he would want anyone fighting his battles.
I think I could hold my own against either on the shooting line, but see no profit in it. There is something more to life than bragging rights. Although I would really like to shoot with/against either I am not going to spend money better spent on a hunting trip for it. There are probably a lot of guys here here than shoot as well as either. I can think of at least a couple guys I would bet on rather than BS or JB.
As to JBs prices....I do not see his guns as customs, but maybe semi customs. I understand that they have to spend time to do load work up, and calibrate them fancy little dials, but think they are ovrpaid for this work. If it took them six hours per rifle, which is plenty of time for break in, load work up and confirming drops they are probably billing at 500 per hour for that work. Work that most anybody here does for their buddies for free is getting billed at a huge rate. I guess there are guys out there without friends with the capability to do this work for them. For the guys that do have friends or abilities of their own, these rifles are wayyyy overpriced.
In any case I wish JB well in his effort to sell rifles.....hey I beleive in capitalism. I also wish BS the best also. I am aware that he had a tragedy a while back and that still has to be effecting the guy, no matter how mentally tough he may be. I do get a kick out of his posts and can often gleen some pearls of wisdom from them.
We are in total agreement here. I am saying that my scopes and rifles are best understood by those that value performance.
Hey Burns, I posed this question awhile back in the custom rifles forum, but must have missed it. If you rifles/set-ups are the t!ts as they stand now, best there is as you have said... Then why are you having McMillan get set up to start molding you stocks? Just a question.
Dang seems like I miss this when it fires up..... anyway... I didn't see the top quote till now. That means then, I'm assuming, that all our military snipers are running the yardage marked 1/3moa click scopes and correct rifle setups now or soon then?
Is this thread for real?? Is this John Burns fella really suppose to be a custom rifle builder?? $6k for a custom rifle?? I'd like to know what components he uses to build said rifle that would garner that hefty of a price tag.
700 action HS Precision stock "unnamed" barrel Leupold 4.5-14x40 with custom reticle and knobs Choice of three chamberings Custom cut chamber Initial load development and 100 rds of ammo
I don't get why people are jealous over what Burns charges for a rifle. I can't afford one but there are alot of people that can so who cares?
I don't get the whole "people are trying to buy skill" by buying a greybull rifle fight either. People are always trying to buying something they can't do. My sister's drive 50k-60k sports car's (maybe more) but the speed limit is the same if they drove a neon. They happen to have the money to buy the 50k-60k sports cars again who cares.
I think stick finally jumped on someone that is has probaly been called out many times before. If you make your living building custom rifles and shooting long range on video I have to believe that Burns has run into a loud mouth before.
Dink
I totally agree with what is said here. You can tell form seeing him on the TV shows John has put his time behind the trigger.
In this thread we are witnessing the "American Way". John Burns is competing in a free market and can price his product to what ever the market will bear. It is obvious he is successful. Individuals on the fire don't own stock in his company or are on his board of directors, therefore are naive to suggest his product and price won't sell in a free market.
I applaud Burns for risk taking and swimming with the sharks in a free market.
I don't get why people are jealous over what Burns charges for a rifle. I can't afford one but there are alot of people that can so who cares?
I don't get the whole "people are trying to buy skill" by buying a greybull rifle fight either. People are always trying to buying something they can't do. My sister's drive 50k-60k sports car's (maybe more) but the speed limit is the same if they drove a neon. They happen to have the money to buy the 50k-60k sports cars again who cares.
I think stick finally jumped on someone that is has probaly been called out many times before. If you make your living building custom rifles and shooting long range on video I have to believe that Burns has run into a loud mouth before.
Dink
I totally agree with what is said here. You can tell form seeing him on the TV shows John has put his time behind the trigger.
In this thread we are witnessing the "American Way". John Burns is competing in a free market and can price his product to what ever the market will bear. It is obvious he is successful. Individuals on the fire don't own stock in his company or are on his board of directors, therefore are naive to suggest his product and price won't sell in a free market.
I applaud Burns for risk taking and swimming with the sharks in a free market.
I have a unique pedigree as the guy behind the armorer's bench as well as behind the gun. Having spent a fair amount of time at factories like Fabrique Nationale, Knight's Armament, Remington, Colt Defense, etc, I know my way around precision equipment.
The .gov has given me the opportunity to work overseas as both an operator and the guy who maintains weapons systems from M24s, SR-25s/M110s to M249s and M203s.. I have been very fortunate to have been given this opportunity.
Here is what I am putting up on the table:
Send me one of your guns for a two week eval, along with 150 rounds. I will give it a fair and honest evaluation. I can run the gun considerably further than 1K, if that seems reasonable. Or we can set a limit if you like.
I will compare it against known equipment in my personal inventory, as well as against other known rifles belonging to other professional shooters, who will be glad to be unbiased participants. This can be done either KD range style or unknown.
I have no dog in this hunt, so a fair and honest eval will be the standard.
700 action HS Precision stock "unnamed" barrel Leupold 4.5-14x40 with custom reticle and knobs Choice of three chamberings Custom cut chamber Initial load development and 100 rds of ammo
That's about it.
Originally Posted by AkMtnHntr
Seriously?? That's it??
Yep, that's it. For that kind of money I could have a "REAL" custom rifle built and then put a S&B on it and have money left over. OH, yea I already did that
My question remains unanswered.... what exactly are you trying to sell Burns??
Your rifle which you proclaim as THE best turn-key package and second to none..... or your delusions of grandeur that you're the best shooter there is??
While I think it's great and refreshing that you have confidence in your shooting ability, and appear willing to put it to the test (on your terms it seems), it still doesn't have squat to do with your claims regarding your product.
You running around from thread to thread pounding your chest and issuing challenges is just conveniently taking emphasis off the REAL reason I thought brought you here.... peddling your wares. You don't seem to place to same amount of confidence in your product as you do your ego.
I have a unique pedigree as the guy behind the armorer's bench as well as behind the gun. Having spent a fair amount of time at factories like Fabrique Nationale, Knight's Armament, Remington, Colt Defense, etc, I know my way around precision equipment.
The .gov has given me the opportunity to work overseas as both an operator and the guy who maintains weapons systems from M24s, SR-25s/M110s to M249s and M203s.. I have been very fortunate to have been given this opportunity.
Here is what I am putting up on the table:
Send me one of your guns for a two week eval, along with 150 rounds. I will give it a fair and honest evaluation. I can run the gun considerably further than 1K, if that seems reasonable. Or we can set a limit if you like.
I will compare it against known equipment in my personal inventory, as well as against other known rifles belonging to other professional shooters, who will be glad to be unbiased participants. This can be done either KD range style or unknown.
I have no dog in this hunt, so a fair and honest eval will be the standard.
After the eval, I will ship it back to your FFL.
A couple of "at work" shots:
Sincerely, MackaySagebrush
What say you Burns???
This would seem to me to be the BEST opportunity for you to lay to rest the questions and derision that have been brought on by your claims.
My question remains unanswered.... what exactly are you trying to sell Burns??
Your rifle which you proclaim as THE best turn-key package and second to none..... or your delusions of grandeur that you're the best shooter there is??
While I think it's great and refreshing that you have confidence in your shooting ability, and appear willing to put it to the test (on your terms it seems), it still doesn't have squat to do with your claims regarding your product.
You running around from thread to thread pounding your chest and issuing challenges is just conveniently taking emphasis off the REAL reason I thought brought you here.... peddling your wares. You don't seem to place to same amount of confidence in your product as you do your ego.
He isn't interested in having his products tested against other products, he is interested in challenging someone to a shoot off that he thinks that he can beat.
I'd be willing to wager a health some that David Tubbs would out shoot him with his system and then switch systems and out shoot him again.
Of course this would only prove that Tubbs is a better shot, which I believe that he is. But if the shooter is taken out of the equation, then the equipment would have to stand on it's on.
A 4.5X14 Leupy ain't the best poor light long range hunting scope out there and that can easily be demonstrated
If he wants to prove how great his rifle is then he should have someone that doesn't shoot long range for a living use one of his rifles in a competition.
He isn't interested in having his products tested against other products, he is interested in challenging someone to a shoot off that he thinks that he can beat.
I'd be willing to wager a health some that David Tubbs would out shoot him with his system and then switch systems and out shoot him again.
Of course this would only prove that Tubbs is a better shot, which I believe that he is. But if the shooter is taken out of the equation, then the equipment would have to stand on it's on.
A 4.5X14 Leupy ain't the best poor light long range hunting scope out there and that can easily be demonstrated
Don't think so,and the one person who has been called out/challenged hasn't even posted on this thread. 50 pages means everyone is couped up inside with nothing to do. Can someone post pics of some hot chicks?
But as consolation, she supposedly received an untold number of adulating and adoring PM's congratulating on standing up to the big, bad, mean, foul mouthed bully Big Stick.
Wow...23 pages by my count. Y'all are either just sportin' around or are bored to tears 'cause of all the snow.
I probably won't buy a gun from Mr.Burns and I sure as hell won't let Big Stick prune my trees. I don't do lo-o-o-o-ng range and don't care for stumps.
1. Mine's bigger than yours. 2. Yours is smaller than mine. 3. Airline tickets are expensive. 4. Mine's better cause I say so, so there (alternatively "blow me".) 5. No shooting involved. 6. Least cost-best option is to have MS shoot the rifles in quershtion. * 7. Yaaaaaaaawn.
* I would vote for this option, then we'll have confirmation that he's likely better than anyone on the board and to be sure and not p!zz him off, with his rifle or yours.
8. Glad I could be of friendly service to everyone. Please let me know if you have any questions.
But as consolation, she supposedly received an untold number of adulating and adoring PM's congratulating on standing up to the big, bad, mean, foul mouthed bully Big Stick.
If only it were true,but I'm groovin' on her imagination...whether it rifle,glass or people skills................
Laughter is the best medicine. After that dose I am heading to the shop to load something and shoot a little. I am thinking about playing with my 6.5 WSM * twist any bullet suggesstions?
I got some 123s but am thinking about going a little heavier. I shoot the 123s in my 6.5x284 and 6.5x47. Chit ,my 123s are smks but I might have some lapua fodder stashed somwhere, but think it is all 6mm stuff
This is great carry on! The Oompa-Loompa is in fine form today. Wonder if he is drunk already??
Let's all sing the "Big Stick" SONG NOW:
Oompa Loompas: Oompa Loompa doompadee doo Stck�s got another puzzle for you Oompa Loompa doompadah dee If you are wise you'll listen to me
What do you get from a Dwarf from Alaska? A pain in the neck and an IQ of three Why don't you try simply Pulling Your PUD? Or could you just not bear to look?
You'll get no You'll get no You'll get no You'll get no You'll get no satisifaction
Oompa Loompa Doompadee Dah If you're got a little pee pee like me you will go far You will live in happiness too Like the Oompa Loompa Stickadee do!
I have a unique pedigree as the guy behind the armorer's bench as well as behind the gun. Having spent a fair amount of time at factories like Fabrique Nationale, Knight's Armament, Remington, Colt Defense, etc, I know my way around precision equipment.
The .gov has given me the opportunity to work overseas as both an operator and the guy who maintains weapons systems from M24s, SR-25s/M110s to M249s and M203s.. I have been very fortunate to have been given this opportunity.
Here is what I am putting up on the table:
Send me one of your guns for a two week eval, along with 150 rounds. I will give it a fair and honest evaluation. I can run the gun considerably further than 1K, if that seems reasonable. Or we can set a limit if you like.
I will compare it against known equipment in my personal inventory, as well as against other known rifles belonging to other professional shooters, who will be glad to be unbiased participants. This can be done either KD range style or unknown.
I have no dog in this hunt, so a fair and honest eval will be the standard.
After the eval, I will ship it back to your FFL.
A couple of "at work" shots:
Sincerely, MackaySagebrush
Sounds like a fair offer, Ted.
Mr. Burns, you ought to give this one some serious consideration, IMO.
I have a unique pedigree as the guy behind the armorer's bench as well as behind the gun. Having spent a fair amount of time at factories like Fabrique Nationale, Knight's Armament, Remington, Colt Defense, etc, I know my way around precision equipment.
The .gov has given me the opportunity to work overseas as both an operator and the guy who maintains weapons systems from M24s, SR-25s/M110s to M249s and M203s.. I have been very fortunate to have been given this opportunity.
Here is what I am putting up on the table:
Send me one of your guns for a two week eval, along with 150 rounds. I will give it a fair and honest evaluation. I can run the gun considerably further than 1K, if that seems reasonable. Or we can set a limit if you like.
I will compare it against known equipment in my personal inventory, as well as against other known rifles belonging to other professional shooters, who will be glad to be unbiased participants. This can be done either KD range style or unknown.
I have no dog in this hunt, so a fair and honest eval will be the standard.
After the eval, I will ship it back to your FFL.
A couple of "at work" shots:
Sincerely, MackaySagebrush
Sounds like a fair offer, Ted.
Mr. Burns, you ought to give this one some serious consideration, IMO.
Mackay is the real deal.
Yep, but he won't, because that is no t JB's goal. His goal is to peddle to the inexperienced and unknowing. The very ones that should not be shooting at game at long range
I have a unique pedigree as the guy behind the armorer's bench as well as behind the gun. Having spent a fair amount of time at factories like Fabrique Nationale, Knight's Armament, Remington, Colt Defense, etc, I know my way around precision equipment.
The .gov has given me the opportunity to work overseas as both an operator and the guy who maintains weapons systems from M24s, SR-25s/M110s to M249s and M203s.. I have been very fortunate to have been given this opportunity.
Here is what I am putting up on the table:
Send me one of your guns for a two week eval, along with 150 rounds. I will give it a fair and honest evaluation. I can run the gun considerably further than 1K, if that seems reasonable. Or we can set a limit if you like.
I will compare it against known equipment in my personal inventory, as well as against other known rifles belonging to other professional shooters, who will be glad to be unbiased participants. This can be done either KD range style or unknown.
I have no dog in this hunt, so a fair and honest eval will be the standard.
After the eval, I will ship it back to your FFL.
A couple of "at work" shots:
Sincerely, MackaySagebrush
Sounds like a fair offer, Ted.
Mr. Burns, you ought to give this one some serious consideration, IMO.
Mackay is the real deal.
Yep, but he won't, because that is no t JB's goal. His goal is to peddle to the inexperienced and unknowing
The clueless are the only folks dumb enough..................
This is great carry on! The Oompa-Loompa is in fine form today. Wonder if he is drunk already??
Let's all sing the "Big Stick" SONG NOW:
Oompa Loompas: Oompa Loompa doompadee doo Stck�s got another puzzle for you Oompa Loompa doompadah dee If you are wise you'll listen to me
What do you get from a Dwarf from Alaska? A pain in the neck and an IQ of three Why don't you try simply Pulling Your PUD? Or could you just not bear to look?
You'll get no You'll get no You'll get no You'll get no You'll get no satisifaction
Oompa Loompa Doompadee Dah If you're got a little pee pee like me you will go far You will live in happiness too Like the Oompa Loompa Stickadee do!
This is great carry on! The Oompa-Loompa is in fine form today. Wonder if he is drunk already??
Let's all sing the "Big Stick" SONG NOW:
Oompa Loompas: Oompa Loompa doompadee doo Stck�s got another puzzle for you Oompa Loompa doompadah dee If you are wise you'll listen to me
What do you get from a Dwarf from Alaska? A pain in the neck and an IQ of three Why don't you try simply Pulling Your PUD? Or could you just not bear to look?
You'll get no You'll get no You'll get no You'll get no You'll get no satisifaction
Oompa Loompa Doompadee Dah If you're got a little pee pee like me you will go far You will live in happiness too Like the Oompa Loompa Stickadee do!
I say let's bear a look,while you sing yourself to sleep.
That part is rather humorous, I must say. JB keeps referring to "how many views" this thread has gotten. The mere fact that is all bad press escapes him......
That part is rather humorous, I must say. JB keeps referring to "how many views" this thread has gotten. The mere fact that is all bad press escapes him......
Not really---the "Big Stick Prostrate Draining Club Members" are the ones screaming like pigs caught under the gate ..
90% of the people here do not shoot custom rifles ---- there are some who only shoot built from the ground up custom rifles and are watching this whole event with a smile.
Don't think so,and the one person who has been called out/challenged hasn't even posted on this thread.
Really??
Go back to page 1, and read the very first sentence in the very first post, that started all of this.
Care to try again?
You guys are a carnies dream. "Don't take your eye off the ball...".
You have all lost track of the ball, and played right into another dodge and divert, change the angle, and get everyone to forget about the original topic.
"Step right up! Group Stick-suck in progress. Line up boys, and don't take your eye off the ball!"
No, it is bad press, I don't care if your a custom rifle looney or not. If I were in the market for one I damn sure wouldn't be doing business with him. If you think JB is doing himself a service in this thread, your reading comprehension is in serious trouble. Just sayin....
That part is rather humorous, I must say. JB keeps referring to "how many views" this thread has gotten. The mere fact that is all bad press escapes him......
Not really---the "Big Stick Prostrate Draining Club Members" are the ones screaming like pigs caught under the gate ..
90% of the people here do not shoot custom rifles ---- there are some who only shoot built from the ground up custom rifles and are watching this whole event with a smile.
In fairness,I shoot a little of everything and like to sandbag quite a bit.
Don't think so,and the one person who has been called out/challenged hasn't even posted on this thread.
Really??
Go back to page 1, and read the very first sentence in the very first post, that started all of this.
Care to try again?
You guys are a carnies dream. "Don't take your eye off the ball...".
You have all lost track of the ball, and played right into another dodge and divert, change the angle, and get everyone to forget about the original topic.
"Step right up! Group Stick-suck in progress. Line up boys, and don't take your eye off the ball!"
PM me your addy again and I'll Mail Order another cyberhanky,plus an extra 50cc's of Vagisil for your affliction(s).
If you double your price but lose half of your customers, you increase your profit.
Smith and Wesson and Ruger don't often cater to the wishes of the true believers and the knowledgeable because that isn't where the big sales are. More money in selling LCRs than they would ever make by bringing out a 5 shot SA in 480 Ruger. S&W has always made the dough with the j frame 38. An X frame may end up being profitable, but which one really drives the bottom line?
My take is that Burns doesn't care if he alienates a huge portion of the informed, skilled shooters because they're not his total target market and the exposure must be calculated to offset the vast negative word of mouth.
If value for money spent is your primary concern, you probably not in the target market.
If the guy gets a tiny percentage of the numbers exposed to his product as customers, he has done very well. The danger of bad word of mouth is changed and/or offset by the sheer numbers in cyberspace. The guy doesn't need to winnow that much wheat from a carload of chaff to be a success. Kind of like the success rates of direct mail campaigns but without near as much cost.
If you want the best and money is no object, perception can equal reality and the sizzle is as important as the steak.
FWIW., I sold my Freedom Arms 97 so I could afford more Rugers and Marlins. I appreciate top quality, but go with acceptable for budgetary reasons. If I had a watch I could sell for $12,000. I would.
He was running away and I waited as long as I could for him to turn,but it weren't gonna happen,so laced him with a speed ball in the Leather Cheerio at mebbe 40yds tops. That froze him(understatement).
Walked up,gived another through the shoulders,to knock the wiggle out. Best I can tell,them bullets still goin'.(grin)
He was running away and I waited as long as I could for him to turn,but it weren't gonna happen,so laced him with a speed ball in the Leather Cheerio at mebbe 40yds tops. That froze him(understatement).
Walked up,gived another through the shoulders,to knock the wiggle out. Best I can tell,them bullets still goin'.(grin)
Though I'm of course an X Man.
Mebbe a pun there too..............
Outstanding. I would have liked to try a FS or three, but I am satisfied with the TSX and Partitions, though I have yet to wack anything as tough as that bruin you have there.
He was running away and I waited as long as I could for him to turn,but it weren't gonna happen,so laced him with a speed ball in the Leather Cheerio at mebbe 40yds tops. That froze him(understatement).
Walked up,gived another through the shoulders,to knock the wiggle out. Best I can tell,them bullets still goin'.(grin)
Though I'm of course an X Man.
Mebbe a pun there too..............
Outstanding. I would have liked to try a FS or three, but I am satisfied with the TSX and Partitions, though I have yet to wack anything as tough as that bruin you have there.
The FS is easily Winny's best in house effort,but hardly an X.................
1/10 of 1% will likely pay the bills. Alienating and stirring the 'fire are an excrable yet acceptable ways of doing bidness. Iss all about the Benjamins!!!
For that money you could buy a dozen really expensive cotton dress shirts too. Don't know who buys them either, but know they are out there. Expensive is o.k. and apparently overpriced can actually be desirable. That is why I don't get the outrage on the price. The earlier P.T. Barnum reference was apt. A sucker IS born every day and if you are going to separate a fool and his money, do it with one that can afford it. Wal Mart can make billions from the working poor but Burn's target market is a bit more flush it seems. Rich ignorant Bubbas maybe.
Essay W.
PS I helped move $250,000 dollars worth of Steuben glass sculptures back when that was real money. Maybe a dozen cases the size of a big lawyers brief. Didn't even fill the trunk of the car really. But I was making $20k/yr and the owner probably made that before lunch most days. Reasonable enough to him.
When I see people paying $6000 for a rifle or $10,000 or $20,000 (seen a wood stocked Echols lately?), or $150,000 for a car or $6,000,000 (or whatever they cost) for a new private jet, I always wonder how such people can be called suckers.
Seems like it would be hard for a sucker to have accumulated enough dough to drop that much on any kind of toy.
Maybe they're incredibly smart in their personal business and/or investments, plus having the balls to risk everything to accumulate so much, but really stupid in all other areas of their life?
Neck that 6.5 to .284" and you'll have sumptin'....................(grin)
Got that one too, and you are correct, they is sumpthin. Only fired twelve rounds out of the 6.5 and am ready to hunt long range (well sorta long range out to 800, but will shoot a little further toorrow, maybe). In my defense I had to mount the scope, sight it in, work up a load and hang an 800 yard target. 66.6gr vv560 pushing 140 bergers at 3350ish may not be your cup of tea, but for these little ol deer we got down here it should be bad medicine. You probably would not care for the long tube or stock either, but I hunt like swampman. I ride the golf cart to the stand overlooking crap no one can walk through and shoot em when they come out, or expose themselves on a hillside. We have some rather large cutovers down here.
I know some of those guys. They sometimes let their intelligence override their common sense.
Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
When I see people paying $6000 for a rifle or $10,000 or $20,000 (seen a wood stocked Echols lately?), or $150,000 for a car or $6,000,000 (or whatever they cost) for a new private jet, I always wonder how such people can be called suckers.
Seems like it would be hard for a sucker to have accumulated enough dough to drop that much on any kind of toy.
Maybe they're incredibly smart in their personal business and/or investments, plus having the balls to risk everything to accumulate so much, but really stupid in all other areas of their life?
Seems like it would be hard for a sucker to have accumulated enough dough to drop that much on any kind of toy.
Maybe they're incredibly smart in their personal business and/or investments, plus having the balls to risk everything to accumulate so much, but really stupid in all other areas of their life?
Oh, yeah. Trust me, a man who can make a lot of money can also be a freaking retard "in all other areas" of his life.
Guess he's never seen one of Paris Hilton's shopping spree's for 10K's jeans while driving her F1 McLaren. Those things happen when you get 27 million handed to you for doing dick (yea I know about her film exploits).
Dude he couldn't hit the egg. He posts a video of misses and thinks it is good shooting.
500yd eggs are not difficult on a range. There is a reason you have never seen another 1000yd coyote on video.
People shot critters at 1k on video - it's not a coyote so I guess it ain't chit but I'm also guessing that a good speedgoat would introduce a touch more "buck fever" than some yote....
If the amount they spend is insignificant to them then the sucker label doesn't really apply. Still hard to get my head around the thought that their $6000 is relative to my $60. I know I won't drive too far to save $2 for gas. Hemingway was right about the rich being different. They have more money. And that from a guy that had some pricey guns too.
Don't see too many folks payin' Porsche sticker for a Ford Taurus regardless of their bank account level. Especially a Ford Taurus with an unknown make of motor...
Seen many folks take a Ford Taurus of known pedigree and make a decent to/from work ride though. Don't require a special "custom fuel" either.
To be fair - that doesn't include load development. So at 210 dollars a round - spring for the GB and get the load development done.
And before someone gets a sandy mangina - ain't bashing his shooting, no one has, the issue is still with his claims of his rifle. THAT'S that this is about, even tho any questioning of said rifle turns into a "You can't shoot better n me" from Burns.
Question ain't about shooting - it's about quality of the product. Guarantee you I'd shoot just as well with the 3900.00 special as I would with the 6k GB. Doesn't matter how well or not that actually is - the man claims his is the best, nothing else is as good. I should (concievably) shoot better with his than the $3900.00 one.
Ain't necessarily so....
(And we'll not talk about his complete BS about an Al bedding block counteracting thermal expansion of the Al scope several inches away - even tho they ain't the same alloy or connected in a thermally important way)
When I see people paying $6000 for a rifle or $10,000 or $20,000 (seen a wood stocked Echols lately?), or $150,000 for a car or $6,000,000 (or whatever they cost) for a new private jet, I always wonder how such people can be called suckers.
Seems like it would be hard for a sucker to have accumulated enough dough to drop that much on any kind of toy.
Maybe they're incredibly smart in their personal business and/or investments, plus having the balls to risk everything to accumulate so much, but really stupid in all other areas of their life?
Simple, in the example of the car, if you're paying $150k, you better get this.
Question ain't about shooting - it's about quality of the product.
Honestly, the question is about HOW he is handling questions about the product.
No one can ruin sales faster than the sales staff themselves.
Agreed. That is the only problem I can see with this situation-not his rifles, or whether or not they are worth the $$$$. Simply don't agree with such sales 'tactics'. I have had words with a fella on the backpack hunting forum over his methods of selling a certain brand of sleeping bag, or should I say, of dealing with any questions of a critical nature-similar to this here deal with Burn's rifles, IMO.
I make some damn good rifles and scopes and the silent majority here is beginning to take notice.
Since I've not commented on this thread or any other about Greybull, I guess I'm one of the silent majority. What I've noticed is that John Burns acts like a dick, speaks like a dick, and therfore must be a dick.
John,
while you may be able to bullsh1t the fans, you can't bulsh1t the players.
Fittings: Sling swivel studs and optional quick connect bipod attachment
Ammunition: 100 rounds of GreyBull Precision custom loads. Our high-performance ammunition features precision VLD hunting bullets, which offer the highest ballistic coefficients available in each caliber & bullet weight, and deliver the best retained energy and wind drift performance for extended ranges. The "delayed grenade" effect of these bullets provides amazing terminal performance and quick, clean kills.
Weight: 10 pounds including optic (also available with a lighter barrel contour resulting in a 9 pound finished weight w/optic)
If you think Burns has a racket, check out Christensen Arms...
Your right, and what about them hog rifles or whatever Clay Spenser calls them. How much does a NULA run? I see several posters here liking them.
The only rifle I paid close to six grand for was topped with a NXS was built on a BAT CT action in a McMillan and chambered in a one off wildcat....and it came with dies and 200 pieces of fireformed brass.
If you think Burns has a racket, check out Christensen Arms...
Your right, and what about them hog rifles or whatever Clay Spenser calls them. How much does a NULA run? I see several posters here liking them.
The only rifle I paid close to six grand for was topped with a NXS was built on a BAT CT action in a McMillan and chambered in a one off wildcat....and it came with dies and 200 pieces of fireformed brass.
Base price on a "Virginia Hog Rifle" is $4k, as is his "Professional Hunter", both of which built on your supplied action. His "standard hunter" is $2700+ on your action; "guide rifle" is $3700+, on your action.
He shot it with a McMillan rifle in 300 win mag from what I read. Shot that moose with a 180gr Nosler Ballistic tip, 69 grains of IMR 4350 and Winchester Magnum primers. A Leupy MkIV 4.5-14x50 with mil dot reticle is his scope of choice. There's a guy on that page bragging about shooting a target over a mile away with a 300 wm.
He shot it with a McMillan rifle in 300 win mag from what I read. Shot that moose with a 180gr Nosler Ballistic tip, 69 grains of IMR 4350 and Winchester Magnum primers. A Leupy MkIV 4.5-14x50 with mil dot reticle is his scope of choice.
I have a unique pedigree as the guy behind the armorer's bench as well as behind the gun. Having spent a fair amount of time at factories like Fabrique Nationale, Knight's Armament, Remington, Colt Defense, etc, I know my way around precision equipment.
The .gov has given me the opportunity to work overseas as both an operator and the guy who maintains weapons systems from M24s, SR-25s/M110s to M249s and M203s.. I have been very fortunate to have been given this opportunity.
Here is what I am putting up on the table:
Send me one of your guns for a two week eval, along with 150 rounds. I will give it a fair and honest evaluation. I can run the gun considerably further than 1K, if that seems reasonable. Or we can set a limit if you like.
I will compare it against known equipment in my personal inventory, as well as against other known rifles belonging to other professional shooters, who will be glad to be unbiased participants. This can be done either KD range style or unknown.
I have no dog in this hunt, so a fair and honest eval will be the standard.
4K plus my action and that is without glass. They may be great rifles but I will pass. At least I can say my gunsmith knows Clay Spenser. With the NULA at least you get a custom action.
Originally Posted by VAnimrod
Originally Posted by EddyBo
Originally Posted by GreatWaputi
If you think Burns has a racket, check out Christensen Arms...
Your right, and what about them hog rifles or whatever Clay Spenser calls them. How much does a NULA run? I see several posters here liking them.
The only rifle I paid close to six grand for was topped with a NXS was built on a BAT CT action in a McMillan and chambered in a one off wildcat....and it came with dies and 200 pieces of fireformed brass.
Base price on a "Virginia Hog Rifle" is $4k, as is his "Professional Hunter", both of which built on your supplied action. His "standard hunter" is $2700+ on your action; "guide rifle" is $3700+, on your action.
Just my opinion, as someone who just got done wading through 26 pages, that for a rifle that seems over priced, and doesn't even tell you everything that goes in it, John is acting awfully dickish on here. I know from just what I've seen I wouldn't want to spend 6G's, and from what I have seen here, be blamed for lack of skill if I have any issues with said 6G rifle....
He shot it with a McMillan rifle in 300 win mag from what I read. Shot that moose with a 180gr Nosler Ballistic tip, 69 grains of IMR 4350 and Winchester Magnum primers. A Leupy MkIV 4.5-14x50 with mil dot reticle is his scope of choice.
Damn...
That moose just got absolutely pole-axed.
That bull was shot at 1100 meters, which is a hair over 1200 yards....by a guy out of Fort Nelson IIRC......
No, he made a mistake when he said 1100 meters, it was 1100 yards. If you go to that youtube page and read the comments you will see where he admitted saying it was yards, not meters. Still, that's a long freakin ways on a moose.
I have heard that Spencer's rifles will shoot, only shot one of them.
I will put Don Geraci's rifles up against anything spenser builds.......and way quicker and cheaper, plus I get the componants I want.
It is really too bad we cant get thiise two on here and pit em. I am pretty sure they used to be good friends.
Not saying his stuff's the greatest, just putting up the info as someone asked about it earlier, and yeah, there are likely a number of builders who put together fantastic rifles, and can do the load development for you, for a range of prices, with any options you, or they, want to include.
As with any rifle, custom or not, it's all about what you (customer) wants or don't want, whether it be the rifle, the company, the builder, etc.
We are in total agreement here. I am saying that my scopes and rifles are best understood by those that value performance.
Hey Burns, I posed this question awhile back in the custom rifles forum, but must have missed it. If you rifles/set-ups are the t!ts as they stand now, best there is as you have said... Then why are you having McMillan get set up to start molding you stocks? Just a question.
Again since John Burns seems to keep missing this when I ask. Simple question right?
Does anyone here shoot short-range or long range benchrest????
There are a LOT of Riflesmiths that build rifles that will put 5 rounds in a tenth of an inch at 100 yards. There are also a BUNCH that build rifles that will put 10 rounds in a 5" group at 1000 yards.
My 'Smith is one of those, and he doesn't charge 6k for a rifle! He built my first short-range BR rifle for $2200.00 without scope. It had a Stolle right bolt, left port action, Hart SS match grade barrel, a 2 oz. Jewell trigger, and a Lee Six stock complete with $275.00 paint job.
He has built me a number of 1000 yard BR rifles as well...........the last one was using a Remington 40X action, a Lilja SS match grade barrel, a Jewell 2 oz. trigger, and a McMillan Edge stock. Total cost?..........$1800.00. The action had already been trued-up ( another $150.00) but he opened the bolt-face to .308 size and added a Sako extractor.
I'd put my 'Smith up against anyone out there..........he has built rifles for a great number of folks around here, and they have all been very competitive.
So far, he has built a total of 6 rifles for me. One of them has 2 switch barrels in different chamberings, one has 4 switch barrels in 2 different chamberings each with different twists, and one has 2 switch barrels in different chamberings.
Just my opinion, as someone who just got done wading through 26 pages, that for a rifle that seems over priced, and doesn't even tell you everything that goes in it, John is acting awfully dickish on here. I know from just what I've seen I wouldn't want to spend 6G's, and from what I have seen here, be blamed for lack of skill if I have any issues with said 6G rifle....
I have similar thoughts on the matter. As I have had a very busy fall, I have not kept up with all the goings on here, and this was the first thread I have read that involved Mr Burns and his rifles. In an attempt to learn more of them, all I got was smart assed responses and an assurance of who I will never even consider for future rifles or recommendations.
I get the feeling this is like a government contractor who uses the cheapest parts available that still meet the minimum specs. Nothing wrong with that as long as you know that up front, but when I pay top dollar I want to know what I'm getting. It'd be like buying a new corvette and never being told what is under the hood.
This will get you close to the $150k mark, with a few drums of race gas tossed in...
Man, this post is going so fast I can't keep up.
BTW, Anyone else dislike the Burns Reticle? On some of his video's, like the antelope at long range, when he superimposes the reticle it is hard to see the game......
And his posts indicate he doesn't run much over 3000fps, sure makes mis-ranging or using the wrong crosshair an issue, although with the dial why is the scope so busy near the center?
Well over my head, which Burns seems to think is true of everyone but himself....
The term "full of hot feces" is the term I'd use for such a BS artist, regardless of how good he is, he ain't the king of the hill.....
Oh wait, I was hoping to buy one of his 1000$ scopes.....oops
Fittings: Sling swivel studs and optional quick connect bipod attachment
Ammunition: 100 rounds of GreyBull Precision custom loads. Our high-performance ammunition features precision VLD hunting bullets, which offer the highest ballistic coefficients available in each caliber & bullet weight, and deliver the best retained energy and wind drift performance for extended ranges. The "delayed grenade" effect of these bullets provides amazing terminal performance and quick, clean kills.
Weight: 10 pounds including optic (also available with a lighter barrel contour resulting in a 9 pound finished weight w/optic)
Actually there is at least one lie in there... his ammo uses Berger VLDs.. they do NOT have the highest BC.... what a crock.... JLK and Wildcat have that beat... whether it matters or not is another subject.
Fittings: Sling swivel studs and optional quick connect bipod attachment
Ammunition: 100 rounds of GreyBull Precision custom loads. Our high-performance ammunition features precision VLD hunting bullets, which offer the highest ballistic coefficients available in each caliber & bullet weight, and deliver the best retained energy and wind drift performance for extended ranges. The "delayed grenade" effect of these bullets provides amazing terminal performance and quick, clean kills.
Weight: 10 pounds including optic (also available with a lighter barrel contour resulting in a 9 pound finished weight w/optic)
Actually there is at least one lie in there... his ammo uses Berger VLDs.. they do NOT have the highest BC.... what a crock.... JLK and Wildcat have that beat... whether it matters or not is another subject.
Cuda is a 440 auto car in my stable, the Firebird is a 400 HO model, auto also, in Dad's shop.
That is Hot August Nights, Reno about 5 years ago
Do either of the 2 alleged "marksmen" still look at this thread, or is John trying to figure out why all of his PM's are negative comments on his "junk"?
It would be nice to see someone like our marksmen on the web actually try out one of these expensive systems and compare it to our governments offerings.
Allen, I test drove and walked away from a 'Bird' w/400 HO, same ragtop and in red IIRC in high school for sale, had been ragged out and needed complete overhaul - body and motor, had a 4 sp. That was in the 80s.
No telling what that would be going for now. Nice rods.
BTW, Eddy, Geraci built my last two. The first was a 6BR - put the first 3 into 1/4" group after group .....at 200 yds. Both 68s and 105s in the 8t Bartlein. The man knows how to work steel and a gent to boot.
Allen, I test drove and walked away from a 'Bird' w/400 HO, same ragtop and in red IIRC in high school for sale, had been ragged out and needed complete overhaul - body and motor, had a 4 sp. That was in the 80s.
No telling what that would be going for now. Nice rods.
BTW, Eddy, Geraci built my last two. The first was a 6BR - put the first 3 into 1/4" group after group .....at 200 yds. Both 68s and 105s in the 8t Bartlein. The man knows how to work steel and a gent to boot.
Geraci a gentleman, hell I guess we talking bout two different guys He is a character is what he is.....larger than life at times, just human the rest of the time. I wish he would get on the internet, you have never see such a ruckus as Geraci getting wound up. He loves to carry on some trash all the time. But you are right he is a gun building monster and one hell of a nice guy, generous to boot. He has built me a dozen at least, probably more. Everything he touches starts shooting bug holes. His metal work is great but his stock work on BR rifles about as close to art as you will ever see in those confines. There are builders out there that may be as good as him, but none better at what he does.
I just don't know, my old Remington in 25/06 didn't cost me much and the tweaking I did, fiberglass stock and bedding was not expensive and it shoots like a house on fire, got my goat at the longest distance I had ever shot at when it was hunting season. Late brother and I bought barreled actions from an guy that got them from an outfit that went out of business, it was in 243, he worked the stock and trigger over as they were mauser actions and proceeded while recovering from a dirt bike accident that almost killed him and put him in a hospital for three months to get a goat at around 500yds, with a 100 grain bullet, he never saw the need for an expensive firearm. So I guess for those that have the money heck have at her. I just know what works for me.
Since we are talking about GREAT smiths: Dave Bruno outside of Pittsburgh. You can find his name and rifles being used at many of the top BR shoots. BR, varmint and hunting rifles from heavy to light they shoot.
I just don't know, my old Remington in 25/06 didn't cost me much and the tweaking I did, fiberglass stock and bedding was not expensive and it shoots like a house on fire, got my goat at the longest distance I had ever shot at when it was hunting season. Late brother and I bought barreled actions from an guy that got them from an outfit that went out of business, it was in 243, he worked the stock and trigger over as they were mauser actions and proceeded while recovering from a dirt bike accident that almost killed him and put him in a hospital for three months to get a goat at around 500yds, with a 100 grain bullet, he never saw the need for an expensive firearm. So I guess for those that have the money heck have at her. I just know what works for me.
Thats for sure, 500 really doesn't generally take a custom anything to get there, thats usually close to a chip shot for a tuned factory anything, and some load work! Certainly not 6000 bucks to get to 500... I've done over 500 on a coyote with a model one sales AR in 7x62x39 and they certainly are not BR guns.
I just don't know, my old Remington in 25/06 didn't cost me much and the tweaking I did, fiberglass stock and bedding was not expensive and it shoots like a house on fire, got my goat at the longest distance I had ever shot at when it was hunting season. Late brother and I bought barreled actions from an guy that got them from an outfit that went out of business, it was in 243, he worked the stock and trigger over as they were mauser actions and proceeded while recovering from a dirt bike accident that almost killed him and put him in a hospital for three months to get a goat at around 500yds, with a 100 grain bullet, he never saw the need for an expensive firearm. So I guess for those that have the money heck have at her. I just know what works for me.
Thats for sure, 500 really doesn't generally take a custom anything to get there, thats usually close to a chip shot for a tuned factory anything, and some load work! Certainly not 6000 bucks to get to 500... I've done over 500 on a coyote with a model one sales AR in 7x62x39 and they certainly are not BR guns.
I think that is what I have to remember when I look at some of these kind of threads. What is a long shot for me(500+ yards) is a chip-shot for many of you long range shooters here at the fire. Pretty impressive, and my hat is off to each one of you fellas.
Seeing as how the number of clicks apparently correlates to the number of rifles sold, just doing my part to bump it back TTT for Burns to reach 10k views.
Although, if you ask me, the only one making a nickel from all this is Rick Bin!
I just don't know, my old Remington in 25/06 didn't cost me much and the tweaking I did, fiberglass stock and bedding was not expensive and it shoots like a house on fire, got my goat at the longest distance I had ever shot at when it was hunting season. Late brother and I bought barreled actions from an guy that got them from an outfit that went out of business, it was in 243, he worked the stock and trigger over as they were mauser actions and proceeded while recovering from a dirt bike accident that almost killed him and put him in a hospital for three months to get a goat at around 500yds, with a 100 grain bullet, he never saw the need for an expensive firearm. So I guess for those that have the money heck have at her. I just know what works for me.
Thats for sure, 500 really doesn't generally take a custom anything to get there, thats usually close to a chip shot for a tuned factory anything, and some load work! Certainly not 6000 bucks to get to 500... I've done over 500 on a coyote with a model one sales AR in 7x62x39 and they certainly are not BR guns.
I think that is what I have to remember when I look at some of these kind of threads. What is a long shot for me(500+ yards) is a chip-shot for many of you long range shooters here at the fire. Pretty impressive, and my hat is off to each one of you fellas.
You gotta remember a few things... first animal accuracy could be a 10 inch group at 500. Not that hard to come by really. Especially if you bed, tweak and reload. Shooting accuracy.... if you can shoot a 2 inch group at 100, you can shoot a 10 inch one at 500..... its absolutely no different. Field prone is a STABLE position.
The part that starts to get most is the mental part. The part that has to be practiced the most is wind doping skills....
Beyond that 500 yards really is not complicated...... for me, and this is personal... past 600 can start to be weird at times... and beyond 800 I better be on my A game.... others ability differs. I'm far from the best and thats a fact.
I'm further from the best than you are. My longest one so far was a bull moose at 400 with irons when I was 15. Some said it was just luck. Dad said, "Well he musta had it pointed in the right general direction, doncha think?" Good ole Dad. BTW, medicman from this site was there to witness it, and he wouldn't stretch the facts.
Since then I have made some longish shots, but I think at best, I am a 400 yard shooter. (With box stock equipment anyway.)
No, he made a mistake when he said 1100 meters, it was 1100 yards. If you go to that youtube page and read the comments you will see where he admitted saying it was yards, not meters. Still, that's a long freakin ways on a moose.
Fair enough....Saw it originally embedded by a buddy of his on a BC board. Haven't checked his Youtube page.
Mr. Burns, I can't say I'm a Stick fan or follower, but I'd like to see a video of you getting a first round hit on an egg at 500 yards.
I won't challenge you to a shooting match since I, like some others on this board don't have "adequate" credentials. Also, I'm sure that off a bipod you could easily outshoot me. If you should ever want to shoot offhand; no bipod, no tripod, no shooting sticks, just you and a rifle, standing at 150 yards, let me know.
Mr. Burns, I can't say I'm a Stick fan or follower, but I'd like to see a video of you getting a first round hit on an egg at 500 yards.
I won't challenge you to a shooting match since I, like some others on this board don't have "adequate" credentials. Also, I'm sure that off a bipod you could easily outshoot me. If you should ever want to shoot offhand; no bipod, no tripod, no shooting sticks, just you and a rifle, standing at 150 yards, let me know.
Don't forget shot should off a pack on the ground, and not from a bench or a bipod.
I know you have met him in person and think well of him, so I didn't want to say too much more!
IMO, he's living proof that you can't alwys judge someone by their internet peronsa. I''ve hunted with him, broke bread and shared some whiskey with the man and I consider him a good friend. He know's a lot about sleeping bags and insulations and probably more than what most people want to know.
I know you have met him in person and think well of him, so I didn't want to say too much more!
IMO, he's living proof that you can't alwys judge someone by their internet peronsa. I''ve hunted with him, broke bread and shared some whiskey with the man and I consider him a good friend. He know's a lot about sleeping bags and insulations and probably more than what most people want to know.
Ak, I can respect a man that 'sticks up' for his friends.
My take is that Burns doesn't care if he alienates a huge portion of the informed, skilled shooters because they're not his total target market
Obviously.
For $6000, that gun better come with a unit 9 AZ elk tag, and a call girl.
I reckon it's about selling videos . Rifles can't write checks, people write checks . Mr Burns don't have to know much about rifles - people are his target . There are a lot more folks on this forum with the bucks to buy a video than those that can afford to pay 6k for a 1200.00 dollar shooting rig .
The clue is in looking at what he keeps posting about.It ain't rifles - it's videos .
No dog in the fight....I fault no capitalists for making money....I also fault no one for pointing out the absurd....But I am betting that JB has missed an egg or two @ 500 but he would never film and show it....cause it would be bad business...Stick has never pointed me in the wrong direction...didn't always grasp the stickisms without a lot of thought...but he has made me a better rifleman and hunter...JB...doubting his 6K rifle would do the same...just sayin...there is more to it than what you are driving
Some have a keen interest in making things difficult or daunting and I reckon I'm the antithesis of that,on the average. Never was a DooDad,Gadget or KnickKnack Guy and am more of the Meat & Taters sort,with a penchant to cut right to the [bleep] chase.
The quicker a guy can focus the grit and forget the fluff,the quicker great results abound. Rifles are easy,if you let 'em be and just a few basic constants at the Loading Bench,will put a guy in the tallest cotton. Once those mechanics are savvied,it's ALL about the boolit.
I do like to sandbag and bait hooks,if only because it cracks me up. If the Steelhead Fishin' ain't too hot this time home,I'll upload some hindleg pursuits and LR hasty barrages,if only in the interest of Fluff Removal......................(grin)
We have had some differences over the years here but I Never questioned your knowledge or abilities with woods craft or shooting. I would ride the river with ya Sir. I also would never get in a drinking contest with ya!!!
I have been reading this with interest. I can never afford to spent a grand on a rifle so I cannot say if a high priced rig will out shoot everything else. I traded once of a Ruger #1 in 22 BR. Did a little bedding and some case prep and took sage rats at 400 yards with it. Never tried to kill anything at 500 yards but I am thinking if I can hit a sage rat at 400 yards I probably do in an elk at 500. I am pretty sure elk are bigger that sage rats by at least 20%.
I have an old Remington 700 in 25-06. Cannot afford a good scope but it has done some tiny groups at 200 yards that would dial in an elk heart at 500 yards wit room to spare.
My CZ hornet came out of the box shooting better than I can. All I did it it was make it into a K-hornet and load it up and shoot.
I don't always agree with Big Stick but I cannot fault his above statement in any way. Time spent at the bench, quality components and a lot of practice will do the job.
Interesting and quite telling that you don't seem to have the time to field questions/inquires nor address the offer that was made to evaluate your equipment in an unbiased independent review/test.
This is how a pissin' match like this played out 200,000 years ago. Except for a slightly better mastery of language and some technology, it's surprisingly the same.
If you think Burns has a racket, check out Christensen Arms...
Your right, and what about them hog rifles or whatever Clay Spenser calls them. How much does a NULA run? I see several posters here liking them.
The only rifle I paid close to six grand for was topped with a NXS was built on a BAT CT action in a McMillan and chambered in a one off wildcat....and it came with dies and 200 pieces of fireformed brass.
Base price on a "Virginia Hog Rifle" is $4k, as is his "Professional Hunter", both of which built on your supplied action. His "standard hunter" is $2700+ on your action; "guide rifle" is $3700+, on your action.
If I were in the business of selling rifles that cost upwards thousands of dollars, I would certainly make sure I spelled "McMillan" correctly. Maybe I'm just anal, but that schit bugs me, especially with the kind of dough he is asking.
If you think Burns has a racket, check out Christensen Arms...
Your right, and what about them hog rifles or whatever Clay Spenser calls them. How much does a NULA run? I see several posters here liking them.
The only rifle I paid close to six grand for was topped with a NXS was built on a BAT CT action in a McMillan and chambered in a one off wildcat....and it came with dies and 200 pieces of fireformed brass.
Base price on a "Virginia Hog Rifle" is $4k, as is his "Professional Hunter", both of which built on your supplied action. His "standard hunter" is $2700+ on your action; "guide rifle" is $3700+, on your action.
If'n I were in the business of building custom rifles in the price range of that guy, I'd certainly be investing in a bit nicer website design as that one looks like a high school kid made it after huffing something in the janitor's closet.
To top it off, the [bleep] guy can't even spell McMillan. Didn't know, "McMillen" made stocks.
I guess I should add, for all that I know the guy makes one helluva rifle. So, perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to judge. And, as has been said by many before, it's hard to fault a guy for getting what he can for his product.
This is how a pissin' match like this played out 200,000 years ago. Except for a slightly better mastery of language and some technology, it's surprisingly the same.
I'm glad you posted this,man, as I now know from whence I came. Them boys act just like that bunch of Okies that I growed up with.
I guess I should add, for all that I know the guy makes one helluva rifle. So, perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to judge. And, as has been said by many before, it's hard to fault a guy for getting what he can for his product.
Maybe this has already been said, but does JB actually make the rifles himself or does he just market them?
I thinking he makes a great rifle, but as mentioned there are many who have equivalent skills and make an equal rifle for less money, regardless of what he says. Seems a little proud of his work, but then some others have equal price tags. Think Kenny Jarrett for one, and he sells enough of them to keep the doors open these many years. Combined with the fact that the last I looked Jarrett didn't include a scope in his price.
Paid $1400 for one back in the 70's, but he was one of the originators of the LR custom theme and didn't have much competition back then. Can still turn it today for more than what I paid back then. That .280AI is a shooter, but a .308W that was put together by a local guy will hang with it any day when it comes to punching paper.
Agree or not, Mr. Burns has some hills to climb before many with $6000 to spend will choose Burns over Jarrett or some other established smith. His need to drum up business here proves the point. Perhaps that day will come and perhaps not. Time will tell.
I wish him well, but he is not the only game in town. Builder or shooter.
If you think Burns has a racket, check out Christensen Arms...
Your right, and what about them hog rifles or whatever Clay Spenser calls them. How much does a NULA run? I see several posters here liking them.
The only rifle I paid close to six grand for was topped with a NXS was built on a BAT CT action in a McMillan and chambered in a one off wildcat....and it came with dies and 200 pieces of fireformed brass.
Base price on a "Virginia Hog Rifle" is $4k, as is his "Professional Hunter", both of which built on your supplied action. His "standard hunter" is $2700+ on your action; "guide rifle" is $3700+, on your action.
If I were in the business of selling rifles that cost upwards thousands of dollars, I would certainly make sure I spelled "McMillan" correctly. Maybe I'm just anal, but that schit bugs me, especially with the kind of dough he is asking.
I'd not develop a habit of judging a smith based on their website, or lack of website altogether...
Lil Fish you truly are the gift that keeps on giving.
Your fanboys have to looking at your choice of shooting iron and just start crying.
A 12lb sniperwannabe rig with a 10x optic shooting HPBT bullets. Why not a Rem Ti in 223AI with the old trusty straight 6X and AMAXs?
I wonder when the fanboys will start to ask �Hey, how many animals has Lil Fish actually taken at long range or is he just running his mouth with absolutely no actual field experience?�
I already know the answer.
VAnimrod,
Would an unbiased review of my system by a campfire member make you happy?
That might have already happened.
I won�t drag him into my little pizzing match here but it won�t be too hard to find the thread.
I've schitt on loan constantly,but shipping ammo is a bitch due to locale/logistics.
I'm thinking S/S 700 s/a 308Winny,wearing a Mike Rock #6 contoured 23 inch 1-11.25 5R spout,chambered M852. A5 stocked,dab lug bedded,Badger M4 bottom,Badger 20MOA Rail,Badger Standards and a Mk4 M1 10x Duplex.
Reckon I prolly dote on 155 Scenars,but it don't hardly give a schitt whatcha throw down it's throat.
But it ain't like someone else is gonna do sumptin' to a rifle,that I haven't.....................
That sounds like a winner. You ever fast twisted and throated a 308 real long to shoot the 208s while still having some case capacity? I was pretty amazed how fast a 308 will push em when you throat em thusly. No real world application but I have a windy day FTR f-class rifle that will send em pretty well. I can't post numbers or the pressure police will bust me. It is just a way to cheat without cheating, but is pretty fun to play with. I like tinkering with em a bit.
John, I am sure your rifle is good, probably as good as most out there. And I am pretty sure your system works great, with limitations. I just cannot fathom the cost, but am sure there are guys out there happy and satisfied shooting them. I doubt that anyone is going to be satisfied with an independant review, unless that review can show about 2 grand worth of "better than the next guys." I do not have a thing against capitalism, you have picked your target market and I hope it works out for ya. But as someone stated," those that know, know better."
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Lil Fish you truly are the gift that keeps on giving.
Your fanboys have to looking at your choice of shooting iron and just start crying.
A 12lb sniperwannabe rig with a 10x optic shooting HPBT bullets. Why not a Rem Ti in 223AI with the old trusty straight 6X and AMAXs?
I wonder when the fanboys will start to ask �Hey, how many animals has Lil Fish actually taken at long range or is he just running his mouth with absolutely no actual field experience?�
I already know the answer.
VAnimrod,
Would an unbiased review of my system by a campfire member make you happy?
That might have already happened.
I won�t drag him into my little pizzing match here but it won�t be too hard to find the thread.
I wonder when the fanboys will start to ask �Hey, how many animals has Lil Fish actually taken at long range or is he just running his mouth with absolutely no actual field experience?�
Dude...stupid just doesn't do justice to that little pearl.
Do yourself a favor & continue to count the counter...
Lil Fish you truly are the gift that keeps on giving.
Your fanboys have to looking at your choice of shooting iron and just start crying.
A 12lb sniperwannabe rig with a 10x optic shooting HPBT bullets. Why not a Rem Ti in 223AI with the old trusty straight 6X and AMAXs?
I wonder when the fanboys will start to ask �Hey, how many animals has Lil Fish actually taken at long range or is he just running his mouth with absolutely no actual field experience?�
I already know the answer.
VAnimrod,
Would an unbiased review of my system by a campfire member make you happy?
That might have already happened.
I won�t drag him into my little pizzing match here but it won�t be too hard to find the thread.
Far from "unbiased", when you were there coaching and as he admits, he had no point of reference.
You have a qualified shooter, with credentials and experience, with an offer on the table to run yours and anyone else's by himself and with other qualified shooters doing the same... no influence from the owner/maker.
THAT, is an unbiased review.
What say you to that offer?
BTW - good to see you "not drag" someone into this, by directly linking their comments to this.
As for the PM you sent last night, yeah, I was easily wrong then and don't mind admitting it.
You're continuing to prove a ton of points, though not exactly the ones that you think you're proving.
We are in total agreement here. I am saying that my scopes and rifles are best understood by those that value performance.
Hey Burns, I posed this question awhile back in the custom rifles forum, but must have missed it. If you rifles/set-ups are the t!ts as they stand now, best there is as you have said... Then why are you having McMillan get set up to start molding you stocks? Just a question.
Again since John Burns seems to keep missing this when I ask. Simple question right?
And again since you still somehow keep missing my question. I think is the 4th or 5th time I have asked you this. It wouldn't be because you compromised using a lesser component when initially setting up to "build" your rifles would it?... I mean after all they the best out there, top of the heap, best schitt running as you have said right?
Lil Fish you truly are the gift that keeps on giving.
Your fanboys have to looking at your choice of shooting iron and just start crying.
A 12lb sniperwannabe rig with a 10x optic shooting HPBT bullets. Why not a Rem Ti in 223AI with the old trusty straight 6X and AMAXs?
I wonder when the fanboys will start to ask �Hey, how many animals has Lil Fish actually taken at long range or is he just running his mouth with absolutely no actual field experience?�
I already know the answer.
VAnimrod,
Would an unbiased review of my system by a campfire member make you happy?
That might have already happened.
I won�t drag him into my little pizzing match here but it won�t be too hard to find the thread.
I'm more than a bunch gifted in many areas and that's hardly secreted.
Most my stuff is non-SAAMI chambered and most don't have those dies setting atop their shelves and I figure if one is weighing all attributes and logistics/locale precludes my sending ammo along,that the lowly 308Win is a fair shake...even though I hate 'em. I never was into Safe Queens,so have zero qualm sourcing componetry of repute,that'll take abuse happily. I've long weighed zero retention and an innate ability to fend inclement weather,as more than a whole bunch important. I savvy that them things is Greek to you.
It is well beyond obvious,that you are a whole bunch more than a whole lot stupid,but I find it curious someone so "in the know" as you and who uses 700 receivers herself,isn't of the 1st Grade tutelage to know that Big Green never pumped .378" Ti's...though I'd assuredly have some,if they did. It'd wear a 6x42 and certainly squirt 75A-Max to boot.
In fairness...I can pull sumptin' outta the larder,to make any weight................
I've schitt on loan constantly,but shipping ammo is a bitch due to locale/logistics.
I'm thinking S/S 700 s/a 308Winny,wearing a Mike Rock #6 contoured 23 inch 1-11.25 5R spout,chambered M852. A5 stocked,dab lug bedded,Badger M4 bottom,Badger 20MOA Rail,Badger Standards and a Mk4 M1 10x Duplex.
Reckon I prolly dote on 155 Scenars,but it don't hardly give a schitt whatcha throw down it's throat.
But it ain't like someone else is gonna do sumptin' to a rifle,that I haven't.....................
That sounds like a winner. You ever fast twisted and throated a 308 real long to shoot the 208s while still having some case capacity? I was pretty amazed how fast a 308 will push em when you throat em thusly. No real world application but I have a windy day FTR f-class rifle that will send em pretty well. I can't post numbers or the pressure police will bust me. It is just a way to cheat without cheating, but is pretty fun to play with. I like tinkering with em a bit.
Yea but that 7/08 wont work in FTR neither will the 223AI only straight 308 or 223 I have been considering a 7/08 for f-class open but can find no advantage over the 6x47 or .284 other than my affinity. I peddled my last 7/08 off but am going to get in the shop and crank a lite weight version very soon.
Burns should just go down to RiflesOnly and shoot some longrange with Frankie and the boys. All bullshit jacking aside its obvious the he can shoot decent enough but his concoction of a �rifle� would be lagging like a one legged man at an ass kicking contest by the end of day 1.
Burns should just go down to RiflesOnly and shoot some longrange with Frankie and the boys. All bullshit jacking aside its obvious the he can shoot decent enough but his concoction of a �rifle� would be lagging like a one legged man at an ass kicking contest by the end of day 1.
I think he abandoned LRH with less abuse. His sticktuitiveness here has impressed me, although maybe he should have cut his losses earlier. I mean what does he have to win versus what does he have to lose even if he gets what he wants, which I assume is a shooting match with big Stick.
Yea but that 7/08 wont work in FTR neither will the 223AI only straight 308 or 223 I have been considering a 7/08 for f-class open but can find no advantage over the 6x47 or .284 other than my affinity. I peddled my last 7/08 off but am going to get in the shop and crank a lite weight version very soon.
I'd be the last guy to slight a 3" COAL 284Win tossing 162's...............
Mr. Burns, Looks like you and Stick will never meet. However, if you can make a first round hit on an egg at 500 yds. I will consider you to have won. No travel involved, just post the video.
No offense to BobinNH, but if THAT is your criteria for a valid and meaningful evaluation of your product, then like you Burns it's laughable and utterly absurd.
But please do carry on as the humor from this train wreck is most entertaining.
Perhaps some generous Washington State Campfire member would offer to host this "contest" that way there is no homefield advantage.
My first post in this train wreck: I'll host. I am a member of 500+ yard range with covered concrete benches if that's what they want to do. I am self-employed and can take time off to pick the boys up at the airport and chauffeur them around.
Naturally it'll never happen, but not because it was logistically impossible.
I tied Karl Feldkamp in a 600yd egg shoot one time. We split the pot. He was shooting a custom 700 of his own creation, and I a GAP rifle that Karl did the cosmetics on. I'll tell you now, either rifle is worth 2x the amount of the POS JB wants to sell you for $6K. Neither however, will magically make you a "shooter" overnight.........
I think the only way to resolve this is 900 yards up hill,target will be a golf ball or Egg.I was first thinking 600-700 yards but that's just too damn easy. My teenager hit a rock the size of a basketball 2 out of 3 times at 1000 yards first time out, so I think a golf ball or egg at 900 yards is a fair challenge for a hard working Alaskan and a Internet precision marksman with a unknown overpriced custom rifle with a custom chamber... And not to mention secret Barney five ammo.
Perhaps some generous Washington State Campfire member would offer to host this "contest" that way there is no homefield advantage.
My first post in this train wreck: I'll host. I am a member of 500+ yard range with covered concrete benches if that's what they want to do. I am self-employed and can take time off to pick the boys up at the airport and chauffeur them around.
Naturally it'll never happen, but not because it was logistically impossible.
I would host but they would have to shoot fifty yards ten times with the same bullet.
I'll host the shoot.....Everybody who posted on here is welcome to come. Mid to late April would work. Before black bear hunting starts. I have a range out west of town where we could shoot to 1500 meters. Steel targets.
The wind up here on the highline will put a real interesting spin on things...
I'll host the shoot.....Everybody who posted on here is welcome to come. Mid to late April would work. Before black bear hunting starts. I have a range out west of town where we could shoot to 1500 meters. Steel targets.
The wind up here on the highline will put a real interesting spin on things...
That would worth the drive just to see everyone's equipment.
I'll host the shoot.....Everybody who posted on here is welcome to come. Mid to late April would work. Before black bear hunting starts. I have a range out west of town where we could shoot to 1500 meters. Steel targets.
The wind up here on the highline will put a real interesting spin on things...
That would worth the drive just to see everyone's equipment.
I'll bring all of my egg shooters....everyone will be welcome to try them out. Most of them are GAP's, Surgeon's and a few are put together by gunsmith's I'm sure no one has ever heard of.
I've got no dog in this fight but I'm curious to see how many will show up, roll up their sleeve's and get down to it.....its funny how eveyone on the internet is 6'4" and weighs 240.....grin!
I'll host the shoot.....Everybody who posted on here is welcome to come. Mid to late April would work. Before black bear hunting starts. I have a range out west of town where we could shoot to 1500 meters. Steel targets.
The wind up here on the highline will put a real interesting spin on things...
I'm guessing they both might lose this one, beware of the quite ones. Would love to WATCH if this ever happened. ( I know my limitations)
I'll host the shoot.....Everybody who posted on here is welcome to come. Mid to late April would work. Before black bear hunting starts. I have a range out west of town where we could shoot to 1500 meters. Steel targets.
The wind up here on the highline will put a real interesting spin on things...
I'll bring all of my egg shooters....everyone will be welcome to try them out. Most of them are GAP's, Surgeon's and a few are put together by gunsmith's I'm sure no one has ever heard of.
I've got no dog in this fight but I'm curious to see how many will show up, roll up their sleeve's and get down to it.....its funny how eveyone on the internet is 6'4" and weighs 240.....grin!
only 6'4" and 240 on the innanet? Where are those midgets? (Awesome rifles BTW!!!)
I'll bring all of my egg shooters....everyone will be welcome to try them out. Most of them are GAP's, Surgeon's and a few are put together by gunsmith's I'm sure no one has ever heard of.
I've got no dog in this fight but I'm curious to see how many will show up, roll up their sleeve's and get down to it.....its funny how eveyone on the internet is 6'4" and weighs 240.....grin!
I wouldn't expect to win anything myself, but it sure would be fun. I don't pretend to be in that league. I'm like Greenhorn, I've got a few $100's to bet on the host.
I wouldn't expect to win anything myself, but it sure would be fun. I don't pretend to be in that league. I'm like Greenhorn, I've got a few $100's to bet on the host.
You can ride with me, we both could come back rich. LOL
Scenarshooter, how particular as to the condition of your steel? I want to come, but want to shoot my long range hunting rifle. It makes a mess out of some steel targets.
hell worth the ticket just to get to play with scenarshooter's rifles
nice stable
am thinking more than 1 of them bad boys would bug hole
Schitt thems lookin nice...When & where...I'll take the time off...I'm thinkin an annual Campfire Steel Shootout is an outstanding idea...even if it wasn't mine...
How could any of you bet on anyone but JB? No one else has a secret squirrel chamber, secret squirrel ammo or a secret squirrel stock! All that secret means it must shoot way better than anything else out there!
Waders ScenarShooter offered up a longer range with steel although not as centrally located to the original proposed contestants in this thread. On that note the new direction almost requires a new post to gauge interest.
Keep up the good work. I could make it to Centralia. I am pretty sure I could not keep up with the real distance shooters but it would be fun to try. I ain't too old to learn a trick or two while having fun at the same time.
Besides I can take a paint ball at a hundred, have done so many times with the old contender and a lot more times with the CZ. Would be fun to watch the faces is I broke an egg at 500 with the lowly K-hornet.
100% guarantee this is going to happen. It's private land, not open to the public, out of view from roads and we can get to it by vehicle no matter what the weather does. This is a state of the art facilty..
The original debate was for the two to shoot an egg (or groups) at 500.
Travel should be evenly split--having a shooting match near one shooter's home isn't a neutral site.
Makes no difference though. These two aren't going to get together anytime soon...
I recall it being a far looser arrangement Wade. That's why I suggested what I did. That will show who can make a rifle sing a song. You're right about it not happening though.
ScenarShooter What do think about starting another thread to gauge interest. I think there are probably quite a few guys that aren't even aware of this proposed get together.
It's OK with me....I dont think charging an entry fee is cool....everyone that shows up will have to chip in and help out with getting things setup, painting steel, setting up steel at unknown ranges,I think there should be a demonstration on mil ranging as well as using a laser rangefinder under hunting conditions as well..I think a two day deal would get just about everything done. We've built a foam board that holds clay targets that can be set up at 500 and beyond.
It's OK with me....I dont think charging an entry fee is cool....everyone that shows up will have to chip in and help out with getting things setup, painting steel, setting up steel at unknown ranges,I think there should be a demonstration on mil ranging as well as using a laser rangefinder under hunting conditions as well..I think a two day deal would get just about everything done. We've built a foam board that holds clay targets that can be set up at 500 and beyond.
What about some no laser events at unknown distance??
ScenarShooter I didn't figure it was my place to start a new thread as you were the one to generously offer to host I figured it was your choice. As to the entry fee I just figured to defray some of the cost.
Would be fun to watch some shooting and try out some of Senarshooters arsenal, but if its next summer, I think I'll be off where uncle Sam thinks I need to be....
ScottF I think the offer of a 1500 yard range grabbed everyone's interest. Regardless of whether it is centrally located to the original intent of the thread.
I'll bring all of my egg shooters....everyone will be welcome to try them out. Most of them are GAP's, Surgeon's and a few are put together by gunsmith's I'm sure no one has ever heard of.
I've got no dog in this fight but I'm curious to see how many will show up, roll up their sleeve's and get down to it.....its funny how eveyone on the internet is 6'4" and weighs 240.....grin!
I'd lay 2 to 1 that one of the top billing in Burns v. Stick won't be at Pat's. One of them has already had the offer of having his opponent come to his home range and do all the filming too. This has been a neat display of shooting tricks and some kick-ass sticks though!
Wade & Scott We need to have a WA get together some place we can shoot this spring. The 500 yard range that Wade belongs to would work well if we can work out the details of sneaking that many guests in.
I've got no dog in this fight but I'm curious to see how many will show up, roll up their sleeve's and get down to it.....its funny how eveyone on the internet is 6'4" and weighs 240.....grin!
Their obviously both good shots. Stick has nothing to lose or gain except some expense, time and trouble.
JB has nothing to gain from it either. If he wins what does it prove? As he has managed to alienate half the fire. If he loses, it was expected.
What's the solution?.......A Mazer match obviously.
Being that Stick and JB are busy, Swampy and Douchebeer have volunteered to shoot the match as proxies.
10 paces with air soft guns...both contestants wearing a diaper and bonnet. Pacifier adds 5 style points but does not effect outcome.
First one hit in the right titty is the loser.
(Douchebeer should have the advantage as Jeff O told me Swampy has big nipples.)
JB may continually gain as long as the post has life, its exposure of some kind.. if they ended it by an actual shooting match, the thread dies, as does the current exposure...
I'll bring all of my egg shooters....everyone will be welcome to try them out. Most of them are GAP's, Surgeon's and a few are put together by gunsmith's I'm sure no one has ever heard of.
I've got no dog in this fight but I'm curious to see how many will show up, roll up their sleeve's and get down to it.....its funny how eveyone on the internet is 6'4" and weighs 240.....grin!
I'll quote VA, Dayum!
That is one heck of an invitation.
I doubt I could figure a way to make the trip, but I sure would be proud to lurk in the gallery and try to learn a bit if I could make it.
That�s it, I am selling my S&B scopes, dumping my AI/GAP/PGW 7wizzbangs/338pua and with the money raised ****gasp*** getting a greybull with the secret chamber and super secret luuupold 4 by awesome 14.
wait, what happens when Burns realizes what a peace of chit his "system" is after fingerfukin scenars gear? like a real $6k rig with SB glass and a mikey stock not a walmart special $700 rifle and a $500 scope with a sticker on it.
I have an old Remington 700 in 25-06. Cannot afford a good scope but it has done some tiny groups at 200 yards that would dial in an elk heart at 500 yards wit room to spare.
Sounds like my old ADL, took one of my bosses up to the range years ago and was teaching him how to shoot, did all the reloading for him and while there at 300 Yards there was a small piece of paper left from when someone tore a target down, just held by a little staple, so took three shots and kept them all together on the paper, boss couldn't believe it, used to have the piece to show people that did not believe how accurate a rifle could be with the right loads, still have that rifle, still love punching holes in paper when I am not using for hunting, even shot in a competition with it, got me some trophies. It is a great rifle and caliber.
:)If scenarshooter's venue is too far from half way, I'm putting on my 11th annual precision long range rifle/ carbine match on 3-26-11 and 3-27-11. We have shots out to 1160+ yards, all field positions, movers, night shots out to 550-600 yards, a little hand gunning just to break things up. It is a team event with $1000.00 going to the top team, $500.00 to second and $200.00 to third. Prize table should top $10,000. Most shots are at steel. Some of this years shooters and RO's:
A few shooters getting set for the 440 yard mover: A few of the rifles used by the carbine shooters:
I'll bring all of my egg shooters....everyone will be welcome to try them out. Most of them are GAP's, Surgeon's and a few are put together by gunsmith's I'm sure no one has ever heard of.
I've got no dog in this fight but I'm curious to see how many will show up, roll up their sleeve's and get down to it.....its funny how eveyone on the internet is 6'4" and weighs 240.....grin!
WOW!! What a collection. Wish I could find a way to your shoot and try some of those, could gain some knowledge.
1500 meters unranged.... thats interesting. Would have to be done with a scope with nothing but a straight crosshair in it, no other way to cheat ranging by mil type sizing.
Beyond that, its not realistic at all, no sane long range shooter would attempt a long shot without checking the range.
I'd love to play this, I'm out though, not in the cards of my life right now plus I'm so rusty I suck shooting wise lately. Missed a doe head due to a screw up on my wind guess the other week, measly 252 yards. Had the wind right... but then looked it over hard and decided that the ridge and trees blocked a fair amount of it... I was wrong, it was my first calc at full value... of couse the second berger put the brain on the ground and then she fell.
If this shoot happens, JB's got more ba!!s than I expected. He's the only one with something to lose. People aren't going to line up to buy second best.
always thinkin bout the deer....must be a loseana thing...lol...what about the tofu grond hogs...they are like steel....better get a BFG for them suckeyes...
why you be needing something that big? All you need is a Remington 700 in 30-06 with corelokts and a blister pack scope to shoot as far as you need.... Best in the WORLD
always thinkin bout the deer....must be a loseana thing...lol...what about the tofu grond hogs...they are like steel....better get a BFG for them suckeyes...
Because they might not, "way over penetrate" on something larger
Hmm... if this shindig in Montana happens this spring, and the afflicted parties are certain to make an appearance and settle this debate via their shooting, I'm thinking I could swing the trip.
I'd be more than willing to help do any setting up, snap photos, and drink whiskey with Fred!
I am probably one of the less than many...that could afford one of JB's guns...I am not a professor of never...but doubt I would ever partake....is that close enough to never????
Pete if you'll notice about 12 posts up this thread sat dormant for ~13hrs until Burns hisself spammed it back to the top. Burns has elevated hisself to the level of "post your load", "best in the world" dumbputzatude with the constant posting of the video link. He by his actions has earned the level of civility he's received.
Pete if you'll notice about 12 posts up this thread sat dormant for ~13hrs until Burns hisself spammed it back to the top. Burns has elevated hisself to the level of "post your load", "best in the world" dumbputzatude with the constant posting of the video link. He by his actions has earned the level of civility he's received. hangunnr
My point is that if Burns leaves, Rick is the looser, not anybody else.
And it seems to me he has sponsored a forum, so he has the right to post a promo video especially when the video demonstrates that his "system" works as claimed..
Ho Chi Minh was never going to invade the US of A, but the Brits were certainly going to be eating Wiener Schnitzel for supper and doing the goosestep without US of A assistance. Just saying...
So, by that logic if Swampman and JO sell off their beenie baby and hot wheels collections and manage to scrape up enough money to sponser a forum they should be held in higher regard then their actions dictate? Money dosen't buy respect. If JB had paid a little attention and looked past his arrogance he'd of seen there are a pile of gents here that know their way around rifle builds and how to use one. He lost any level of respect when he posted the rant showcased in the above toon and then followed it up with the stalking of Stick. I can't care if he bulids rifles capable of shooting the nutz off a mouse at a mile, he'll never get a nickle of my money. Whether or not he ever gets the heat off of him is entirely up to him. He chose the path he's on.
I mentioned it on another post, but you should head over to the Optics forum Pete and give holy hell to the Leupold bashers. It's been going on for years and Rick sells Leupold.
After that I've seen numerous posts attacking Chevy, and Chevy trucks is a sponsor. Lots of work to be done Pete and maybe when you are done fighting everyone that has ever said a bad thing about a sponsor, you and Savage 99 can have a great time, as you'll be the only two left.
Ho Chi Minh was never going to invade the US of A, but the Brits were certainly going to be eating Wiener Schnitzel for supper and doing the goosestep without US of A assistance. Just saying...
Not really, check your history...Battle of Britain was the turning out for us...Very little American involment at all, something like seven Americans flying as private indviduals IIRC..That was in 1940....
And while the riceburners may not have been a threat to America in the 1960's, they certainly got your attention in December of '41...
Yep, but we didn't need help from anyone. Don't sweat it, I'm happy for all the Americans that went to England to pull you ass out of the 'Fire. I heard many a story of English lasses being shown a grand time by American soldiers.
I mentioned it on another post, but you should head over to the Optics forum Pete and give holy hell to the Leupold bashers. It's been going on for years and Rick sells Leupold.
After that I've seen numerous posts attacking Chevy, and Chevy trucks is a sponsor. Lots of work to be done Pete and maybe when you are done fighting everyone that has ever said a bad thing about a sponsor, you and Savage 99 can have a great time, as you'll be the only two left.
Actually, I do take your point on that, just the attacks on Burns seem to be particularly personal and vidictive for some reason..
Leupold & Chevy may get a bashing, but they are big impersonal corporate players, not a one man bad...
Anyways, off to get some beers, before the 2" of snow we have brings the county to halt!
Yep, but we didn't need help from anyone. Don't sweat it, I'm happy for all the Americans that went to England to pull you ass out of the 'Fire. I heard many a story of English lasses being shown a grand time by American soldiers.
English wives, American babies.........
Might have liberated the French, but like I said Battle of Britain ended any chance of a German invasion of the UK...
And your right we did end up with many American bastards in the UK...war is hell....
Not really, check your history...Battle of Britain was the turning out for us...Very little American involment at all, something like seven Americans flying as private indviduals IIRC..That was in 1940....
I'm going to side with you on that one Pete. A lot of truly brave men died in defense of their families and country. I won't fault anyone from Britain for their contributions in the war. The entire country gave a 110% + + + + ,IMHO.
That's going to be my about my only contribution to this thread ...........
Ho Chi Minh was never going to invade the US of A, but the Brits were certainly going to be eating Wiener Schnitzel for supper and doing the goosestep without US of A assistance. Just saying...
Not really, check your history...Battle of Britain was the turning out for us...Very little American involment at all, something like seven Americans flying as private indviduals IIRC..That was in 1940....
And while the riceburners may not have been a threat to America in the 1960's, they certainly got your attention in December of '41...
If the US of A hadn't been kickiin Krauts in the AZZ in other area's and supplying Britain with tanks and other support, you'd have gotten your Azz'a handed to you and you know it. At least you should and if you don't you are in denial and that ain't just a river in Egypt either
Pete if you'll notice about 12 posts up this thread sat dormant for ~13hrs until Burns hisself spammed it back to the top. Burns has elevated hisself to the level of "post your load", "best in the world" dumbputzatude with the constant posting of the video link. He by his actions has earned the level of civility he's received. hangunnr
My point is that if Burns leaves, Rick is the looser, not anybody else.
And it seems to me he has sponsored a forum, so he has the right to post a promo video especially when the video demonstrates that his "system" works as claimed..
Wrong Buckwheat, WE make this board go, Rick owns it. If WE are not here their is no one to advertise to. Rick is a big boy and I am sure he thought it out before he let the Burns boy advertise. Its all about choices. I don't think people are used to watching an advertiser act like a rabid [bleep] ankle biting little dog. I also don't think he (Rick) wanted that either. Burns don't read sign very well. When Burns leaves WE will still be here. There will be other advertisers. Steve
Ya just gotta love the way a thread around here morphs. Two Americans get into a fight with each other over who can shoot what with certain equipment, which is fine, and I have no truck with that, and then a few posts back we have someone refighting the second world war all over again.
Type "A" personalities or what? Entertaining at times, though.
Burns paid for a sponsorship of the custom gun section and a banner. Other than that he is treated like anyone else here, that treatment is based on his own actions.
He hasn't fared well based on his childish repetition, stalking, infomercialing, bragging, belittling, threatening and just overall... asshol'eo'ness.
He decided to go beyond advertising and promote his 'system' in realtime threads, that opens it to public scrutiny. He hasn't answered many questions, just attack those questioning, or ignore them.
He's your basic troll with a twist... if I'm banned for pointing out the obvious, so be it.
Burns paid for a sponsorship of the custom gun section and a banner. Other than that he is treated like anyone else here, that treatment is based on his own actions.
He hasn't fared well based on his childish repetition, stalking, infomercialing, bragging, belittling, threatening and just overall... asshol'eo'ness.
He decided to go beyond advertising and promote his 'system' in realtime threads, that opens it to public scrutiny. He hasn't answered many questions, just attack those questioning, or ignore them.
He's your basic troll with a twist... if I'm banned for pointing out the obvious, so be it.
Kent
+1 and combine that with what Steely said...
Charlie Sisk wasn't treated the best, I've seen post after post of bashing Leupold, McMillan (at times) as well.
Of the last 2 weeks - the biggest rub isn't with the rifles but the man selling them. Separate that out a little and you realize what's going on.
Actually, I do take your point on that, just the attacks on Burns seem to be particularly personal and vindictive for some reason.
That kinda seems to happen to azzholes 'round here, especially the ones that bring it on themselves.
I've not commented on this thread before........mostly childish BS, & I'm not much for banning anyone, ever, but if'n I was, I surely be for pullin' the handle on Burns, & I wouldn't have waited this long either.
We are in total agreement here. I am saying that my scopes and rifles are best understood by those that value performance.
Hey Burns, I posed this question awhile back in the custom rifles forum, but must have missed it. If you rifles/set-ups are the t!ts as they stand now, best there is as you have said... Then why are you having McMillan get set up to start molding you stocks? Just a question.
Again since John Burns seems to keep missing this when I ask. Simple question right?
And again since you still somehow keep missing my question. I think is the 4th or 5th time I have asked you this. It wouldn't be because you compromised using a lesser component when initially setting up to "build" your rifles would it?... I mean after all they the best out there, top of the heap, best schitt running as you have said right?
Pete if you'll notice about 12 posts up this thread sat dormant for ~13hrs until Burns hisself spammed it back to the top. Burns has elevated hisself to the level of "post your load", "best in the world" dumbputzatude with the constant posting of the video link. He by his actions has earned the level of civility he's received. hangunnr
My point is that if Burns leaves, Rick is the looser, not anybody else.
And it seems to me he has sponsored a forum, so he has the right to post a promo video especially when the video demonstrates that his "system" works as claimed..
Wrong Buckwheat, WE make this board go, Rick owns it. If WE are not here their is no one to advertise to. Rick is a big boy and I am sure he thought it out before he let the Burns boy advertise. Its all about choices. I don't think people are used to watching an advertiser act like a rabid [bleep] ankle biting little dog. I also don't think he (Rick) wanted that either. Burns don't read sign very well. When Burns leaves WE will still be here. There will be other advertisers. Steve
why you be needing something that big? All you need is a Remington 700 in 30-06 with corelokts and a blister pack scope to shoot as far as you need.... Best in the WORLD
Dude - I have shot once - a 416 RM, 3shots w/375 H&H, and other than that 338/06 and WM. The 50 is a round given to me for a 'paperweight' by a friend who actually is into them, though not much a hunter. The 408 `Chey Tac' was given to me at the Shot Show a few years back. VERY impressive if someone wants to engage WAYYYY out there.
I love it when my Brit friends make capitalist arguments!
I'm waiting for somebody to teach me to make football predictions!
OUCH! Ten points for Pete.
Yep..that had to hurt.....
=================
Scott/Tom...coal for you,punks. Of course it didn't hurt. I'm always fine with the top 10 in pick-ems and winning a weekly or two. Don't forget my upcoming bowl wins,either. I'm more a bet the line kind of guy. If you fellas need to borrow some money,let me know.
Mr. Burns, You bash someone for missing an egg at 500 yards but you haven't shown us that you can do it. Kind of like me bashing Michael Jordan for missing a jump shot.
PS - I'm a firm believer in free markets. If you could get twice what you charge, I'd be fine with that. I just have a problem with people criticizing someone for something they apparently can't do either.
In all seriousness, we all have our different views on things, I do not know JB personally either and must say I laugh at the content of the recent videos for the humor in them, not bc of any reference to anyone. It would matter not to me if anyone's name is posted in them, I'd still chuckle.
The thing about Free Market - it drives alot of quality control and pricing decisions, as well as product offerings in the marketplace. It's there, it works, as there are different 'slices of the pie' in how 'market share' gets divided up.
We as consumers actually benefit ultimately from the 'competition' in the market place. Business aside, you all may recall Palin getting slammed on National TV for her 'bou' ordeal. We can point to many 'mistakes' made, but I applaud what she did taking risks in the marketplace. Now if those same people got ahold of a video of game shot at ultra distances, I am not sure how that would play out in the public eye. Realizing hunters are the 'minorities' in today's time IIRC.
I realize MOST videos for commercial purposes are edited to minimize 'collateral damage' from naysayers, but the 'principal' of what is done is sometimes all that's needed to attract bad PR.
If videos perceived by 'non-hunters' hits mass media, I am not sure how that would reflect on us all. But again, the free market will prevail. Usually.
Yep, but we didn't need help from anyone. Don't sweat it, I'm happy for all the Americans that went to England to pull you ass out of the 'Fire. I heard many a story of English lasses being shown a grand time by American soldiers.
English wives, American babies.........
Love it----this is all about a few of the regulars here who have no life except to post LOL! The vocal few are mostly losers in their personal life (some were abused as children, mothers in the entertainment business, had broken marriages because they were alcoholics, had anger management or other issues that drove their spouses into the arms of other men, born a dwarf and the list goes on and on) so they get satisfaction by convincing themselves that they are important on the internet lol.
Yep, but we didn't need help from anyone. Don't sweat it, I'm happy for all the Americans that went to England to pull you ass out of the 'Fire. I heard many a story of English lasses being shown a grand time by American soldiers.
English wives, American babies.........
Love it----this is all about a few of the regulars here who have no life except to post LOL! The vocal few are mostly losers in their personal life (some were abused as children, mothers in the entertainment business, had broken marriages because they were alcoholics, had anger management or other issues that drove their spouses into the arms of other men, born a dwarf and the list goes on and on) so they get satisfaction by convincing themselves that they are important on the internet lol.
Yep, but we didn't need help from anyone. Don't sweat it, I'm happy for all the Americans that went to England to pull you ass out of the 'Fire. I heard many a story of English lasses being shown a grand time by American soldiers.
English wives, American babies.........
Love it----this is all about a few of the regulars here who have no life except to post LOL! The vocal few are mostly losers in their personal life (some were abused as children, mothers in the entertainment business, had broken marriages because they were alcoholics, had anger management or other issues that drove their spouses into the arms of other men, born a dwarf and the list goes on and on) so they get satisfaction by convincing themselves that they are important on the internet lol.
Yep, but we didn't need help from anyone. Don't sweat it, I'm happy for all the Americans that went to England to pull you ass out of the 'Fire. I heard many a story of English lasses being shown a grand time by American soldiers.
English wives, American babies.........
Love it----this is all about a few of the regulars here who have no life except to post LOL! The vocal few are mostly losers in their personal life (some were abused as children, mothers in the entertainment business, had broken marriages because they were alcoholics, had anger management or other issues that drove their spouses into the arms of other men, born a dwarf and the list goes on and on) so they get satisfaction by convincing themselves that they are important on the internet lol.
I mentioned it on another post, but you should head over to the Optics forum Pete and give holy hell to the Leupold bashers. It's been going on for years and Rick sells Leupold.
After that I've seen numerous posts attacking Chevy, and Chevy trucks is a sponsor.
The difference is that Chevy and Leupold are huge corporations with religious zealot-like cult followers. No amount of negative posting will ever chase off Leupy or Chev. GB Precision on the other hand, was criticized and more or less crucified right from the get-go.
If you take a look, JB was certainly not the first one to cast a stone in this whole debacle. He was personally attacked and berated for a long time while keeping his cool before he finally gave in to the childishness, and retaliated. He was a cool and a nice guy in my opinion before the bully squad started picking on him and his prices. Now he has resorted to childish behaviour that is not doing him any favours, granted, but he was as nice as any of the guys around here to begin with.
I'm really not picking favorites here, but I sure hate to see a guy's business get slandered right from the get-go for nothing more than charging a price that he feels matches his product. Leupy is the same way, even though some of their product lines are complete crap, they still charge out the nose for them. You don't hear people mocking and making fun of the owners of Leupold, individually, by name, because the Rifleman scopes are a joke for the prices they are sold at.
I would like to see JB at least respond to the offers that have been made to give his product and his business some credibility, even if his answer is "no". Every offer or question in business at least deserves a response. And spamming the same video over and over ain't helping anything, either.
Burns paid for a sponsorship of the custom gun section and a banner. Other than that he is treated like anyone else here
+1
Members are the foundation of this site, without members.....no site. Members are basically the customers and if the Sponsors wish to sell us a product, expect many reviews/opinions from the 'fire. Maybe Rick Bin should put up a warning sign? Lol
I mentioned it on another post, but you should head over to the Optics forum Pete and give holy hell to the Leupold bashers. It's been going on for years and Rick sells Leupold.
After that I've seen numerous posts attacking Chevy, and Chevy trucks is a sponsor.
If you take a look, JB was certainly not the first one to cast a stone in this whole debacle. He was personally attacked and berated for a long time while keeping his cool before he finally gave in to the childishness, and retaliated. He was a cool and a nice guy in my opinion before the bully squad started picking on him and his prices. Now he has resorted to childish behaviour that is not doing him any favours, granted, but he was as nice as any of the guys around here to begin with.
Jordan, I think Burns had the right to remain silent, he just did not have the cap a bil ity. Maybe it showed who he really is. Steve
I mentioned it on another post, but you should head over to the Optics forum Pete and give holy hell to the Leupold bashers. It's been going on for years and Rick sells Leupold.
After that I've seen numerous posts attacking Chevy, and Chevy trucks is a sponsor.
If you take a look, JB was certainly not the first one to cast a stone in this whole debacle. He was personally attacked and berated for a long time while keeping his cool before he finally gave in to the childishness, and retaliated. He was a cool and a nice guy in my opinion before the bully squad started picking on him and his prices. Now he has resorted to childish behaviour that is not doing him any favours, granted, but he was as nice as any of the guys around here to begin with.
Jordan, I think Burns had the right to remain silent, he just did not have the cap a bil ity. Maybe it showed who he really is. Steve
That's true, but having run a small business before, I know that I would respond to any negative comments while trying to establish rapport among my target market, if only in an effort to overcome the negative objections and show the value of my business proposition. Burns just did it in a way that accentuated the problem rather than solve it.
There are a handful of "members" here who if this site was taken down for any reason would not know what to do --- seriously.
Addiction to the internet is not a healthy thing-----most likely many are addicted to other things as well..
Others, like you, are self-annointed psychoanalysts.
I guess that's better than being a back biting prick that runs down other folk's products all the while hiding behind your little screen name.
It sure as hell does not make you "man of the year" material.
or much of a man at all.
Jim, Suck a wet one! If you think I am hiding, let me know, I'd be glad to send you my address.
Sorry, not good enough ,you gutless worm.
To truly make YOUR exposure to criticism here equivalent to MR Burns, you'd need to post the following info on this forum for ALL to see-
Your real name. Your business name. Your business address and phone number, What you do for a living. What you make or produce(provide pics and vids of it in use) Who you work for.
Not to get into a pissing match with you Jim but the info in your profile is sorely lacking.
Scott F AKA Robert Fairing Compass Rose Farms 1463 West Uncas Rd Discovery Bay, WA 410 58.21 N 1220 53' 29.73� W 360-301-9301 [email protected]
I am not ashamed of who I am.
Who's your boss, where do you work?
As an employee of his, maybe he should get a phone call/email and be enlightened by baseless negative comments about your job performance? Heck , to replicate what Burns deals with here, maybe 20-30 phone calls, all from jackazzes who refuse to give there real names? That would be fun and productive, right?
Whether its "Custom rifle Nazi" BS or any other Nazi bullschit, it's not funny when the "KGB" gets pointed at you.
BTW, I do not post on this site and directly run down the work of paid advertisers for sport. Nor do I advertise here. I am also not the one tearing down MR Burns products.
So really, I don't need to provide any personal information for the some of the sick creeps here to see.
Not to get into a pissing match with you Jim but the info in your profile is sorely lacking.
Scott F AKA Robert Fairing Compass Rose Farms 1463 West Uncas Rd Discovery Bay, WA 410 58.21 N 1220 53' 29.73� W 360-301-9301 [email protected]
I am not ashamed of who I am.
Who's your boss, where do you work?
As an employee of his, maybe he should get a phone call/email and be enlightened by baseless negative comments about your job performance? That would be fun, right?
Whether its "Custom rifle Nazi" BS or any other NAZI bullschit, it's not funny when the "KGB" gets pointed at you.
BTW, I do not post on this site and directly run down the work of paid advertisers for sport. Nor do I advertise here. I am also not the one tearing down MR Burns products.
So really, I don't need to provide any personal information for the some of the sick creeps here to see.
Not to get into a pissing match with you Jim but the info in your profile is sorely lacking.
Scott F AKA Robert Fairing Compass Rose Farms 1463 West Uncas Rd Discovery Bay, WA 410 58.21 N 1220 53' 29.73� W 360-301-9301 [email protected]
I am not ashamed of who I am.
Who's your boss, where do you work?
As an employee of his, maybe he should get a phone call/email and be enlightened by baseless negative comments about your job performance? That would be fun, right?
Whether its "Custom rifle Nazi" BS or any other NAZI bullschit, it's not funny when the "KGB" gets pointed at you.
BTW, I do not post on this site and directly run down the work of paid advertisers for sport. Nor do I advertise here. I am also not the one tearing down MR Burns products.
So really, I don't need to provide any personal information for the some of the sick creeps here to see.
Kinda hostile today. Steve
No more hostile than the 20 or so Jackals here criticizing Burn's rifles have been.
As an employee of his, maybe he should get a phone call/email and be enlightened by baseless negative comments about your job performance
Lets see, Compass Rose Farms. Just guessing here but I think I am a farmer. You could say my wife is the boss of the greenhouse. I am the boss of the asparagus, peppers, tomatoes, okra... I also run the forge.
You could call my wife or the asparagus, peppers, tomatoes, okra and the forge and give them negative feedback.
Quote
So really, I don't need to provide any personal information for the some sick creeps here to see.
I see that when I looked at your profile. Like I said, I have nothing to hide. Perhaps you should not demand others post what you are afraid to post. Make me wonder what you have to hide.
As an employee of his, maybe he should get a phone call/email and be enlightened by baseless negative comments about your job performance
Lets see, Compass Rose Farms. Just guessing here but I think I am a farmer. You could say my wife is the boss of the greenhouse. I am the boss of the asparagus, peppers, tomatoes, okra... I also run the forge.
You could call my wife or the asparagus, peppers, tomatoes, okra and the forge and give them negative feedback.
Quote
So really, I don't need to provide any personal information for the some sick creeps here to see.
I see that when I looked at your profile. Like I said, I have nothing to hide. Perhaps you should not demand others post what you are afraid to post. Make me wonder what you have to hide.
I thought you drove a truck for a living ,Scott?
Like I said, I am not the one running down another guy's products with baseless opinions and conjecture .
Other folks here are doing that.
Only a shameful jackass would defend such behavior.
Others, like you, are self-annointed psychoanalysts.
I guess that's better than being a back biting prick that runs down other folk's products all the while hiding behind your little screen name.
It sure as hell does not make you "man of the year" material.
or much of a man at all.
Jim, Suck a wet one! If you think I am hiding, let me know, I'd be glad to send you my address.
Sorry, not good enough ,you gutless worm.
To truly make YOUR exposure to criticism here equivalent to MR Burns, you'd need to post the following info on this forum for ALL to see-
Your real name. Your business name. Your business address and phone number, What you do for a living. What you make or produce(provide pics and vids of it in use) Who you work for.
[bleep] loser...
Not sure what brought this on, since I never said a negative thing about Burns' product. In fact, I was one of the few who said he should charge as much as he can get. However, it doesn't matter. Let me know if you ever grow a pair, you little pizz ant. The offer to send you my address stands.
I mentioned it on another post, but you should head over to the Optics forum Pete and give holy hell to the Leupold bashers. It's been going on for years and Rick sells Leupold.
After that I've seen numerous posts attacking Chevy, and Chevy trucks is a sponsor.
If you take a look, JB was certainly not the first one to cast a stone in this whole debacle. He was personally attacked and berated for a long time while keeping his cool before he finally gave in to the childishness, and retaliated. He was a cool and a nice guy in my opinion before the bully squad started picking on him and his prices. Now he has resorted to childish behaviour that is not doing him any favours, granted, but he was as nice as any of the guys around here to begin with.
Jordan, I think Burns had the right to remain silent, he just did not have the cap a bil ity. Maybe it showed who he really is. Steve
Or maybe it showed alot about the people on both sides?
OK I drive for Haney Transportation and I farm My boss is at 800-717-4702. His name is Mike. Complain away.
I am not condoning either of the opponents in this fight. I am just saying you should not ask for that which you are afraid to provide yourself.
Oops, forgot they might recognise an out of state number. You can wright them at; Yakima, Washington (Headquarters) 3710 Gun Club Road Yakima, WA 98901 Phone: (800) 458-3149 Fax: (509) 575-1772
HINT: Make it good. They just might have a problem figuring out why someone who does not have a name of address would complain about a truck that has not been out of NW Washington in the last 12 months.
jim62: Mike,...one of your drivers is participating in an internet pissin' match, and I want him fired.
Mike: Wat?
jim62: It's Scott F,..one of your drivers. You need to fire him. He engages in pissin' matches on the internet.
Mike: Well,...he ain't pissed in the truck yet. *click*
That's a funny little narrative you composed there Bristoe, but it misses the point.
To be similar to what Burn's has to put up with here, me and about 20-30 of my friends would have to bombard Scott's boss with phone calls and emails falsely impugning his character or ability to actually do his job- i.e. jeopardize his livelyhood or job with baseless accusations.
I bet if 20-30 folks accused him of hiring a rig out improperly, wreckless driving ,running cars off the road, being in an unreported accident in a company vehicle etc etc, it would cause some heartburn.
Nobody deserves such treatment simply because you don't "like" someone.
I bet if 20-30 folks accused him of hiring a rig out improperly, wreckless driving ,running cars off the road, being in an unreported accident in a company vehicle etc etc, it would cause some heartburn. =========================
jim62: Mike,...one of your drivers is participating in an internet pissin' match, and I want him fired.
Mike: Wat?
jim62: It's Scott F,..one of your drivers. You need to fire him. He engages in pissin' matches on the internet.
Mike: Well,...he ain't pissed in the truck yet. *click*
It's OK. Mike is a good guy with a stressful job, he need a good laugh. Just got my second year award from the company. 100% safe driving, 100% positive customer feedback. If he makes up a good lie I will still be OK. I will retire before the next bonus time and the asparagus likes me.
OK I drive for Haney Transportation and I farm My boss is at 800-717-4702. His name is Mike. Complain away.
I am not condoning either of the opponents in this fight. I am just saying you should not ask for that which you are afraid to provide yourself.
Oops, forgot they might recognise an out of state number. You can wright them at; Yakima, Washington (Headquarters) 3710 Gun Club Road Yakima, WA 98901 Phone: (800) 458-3149 Fax: (509) 575-1772
HINT: Make it good. They just might have a problem figuring out why someone who does not have a name of address would complain about a truck that has not been out of NW Washington in the last 12 months.
Oh, My truck number is 2627.
Have fun.
First of all Scott,
I remember from your posts here, you are a pretty darn good driver. It would take a schitload of very REAL evidence to get your boss to jeapardize your job in any way.
Who would want to do such a thing to you? I would not. I would not do it even as a prank.
No reason to.
And there is no real reason for 90% of the BS posted here about Greybull or John Burns other than people being nasty ,cowardly azzholes. They sure as hell are not saving the world from anyone.
That's a funny little narrative you composed there Bristoe, but it misses the point.
To be similar to what Burn's has to put up with here, me and about 20-30 of my friends would have to bombard Scott's boss with phone calls and emails falsely impugning his character or ability to actually do his job- i.e. jeopardize his livelyhood or job with baseless accusations.
I bet if 20-30 folks accused him of hiring a rig out improperly, wreckless driving ,running cars off the road, being in an unreported accident in a company vehicle etc etc, it would cause some heartburn.
Nobody deserves such treatment simply because you don't "like" someone.
Capt Mike would look at the truck - it's in one piece, he'd check with the highway patrol - no tickets issued. Then he'd stop taking the phone calls.
See, most bosses know what their employees are doing on a day to day basis.
Like I said - most of the issues I've seen others have with JB is due to who he is, here, not to his product (his product not having torted them in any way).
The problem I've had with him deal with his claims that aren't possible and his attitude. That's ME and who I AM.
I'm sorry I don't like your BFF but I'm not gonna just smile and fake it - your feelings just don't mean that much to me.
jim62: Mike,...one of your drivers is participating in an internet pissin' match, and I want him fired.
Mike: Wat?
jim62: It's Scott F,..one of your drivers. You need to fire him. He engages in pissin' matches on the internet.
Mike: Well,...he ain't pissed in the truck yet. *click*
That's a funny little narrative you composed there Bristoe, but it misses the point.
To be similar to what Burn's has to put up with here, me and about 20-30 of my friends would have to bombard Scott's boss with phone calls and emails falsely impugning his character or ability to actually do his job- i.e. jeopardize his livelyhood or job with baseless accusations.
I bet if 20-30 folks accused him of hiring a rig out improperly, wreckless driving ,running cars off the road, being in an unreported accident in a company vehicle etc etc, it would cause some heartburn.
Nobody deserves such treatment simply because you don't "like" someone.
Spellcheck is your friend. Quit while you have one.
The thing that I find amazing is the ONLY bitching or nitpicking I have seen with John Burns, Greybull rifles or there product is on THIS forum.
ALL by folks who do not own, nor would ever buy one.
I have looked all over the net trying to find any owners of his rifles complaining and have found no complaints.
Now, I KNOW some smart ass will say, "well, he has not sold enough of them to have complainers."
I think he has sold enough by now that if the product did not deliver as promised, he would have at least a FEW complaints if his guns were as bad as his critics here claim..
And there is no real reason for 90% of the BS posted here about Greybull or John Burns other than people being nasty ,cowardly azzholes. They sure as hell are not saving the world from anyone.
I think your percentages may be about 9.99 points low but other than that I agree. This whole threat has been somewhat fun to watch but the whole idea is dumber that a bowling ball.
It is like "the best load" or "The best caliber" posts. There is no best caliber. If there was then there would be only one caliber. The best load is an amateur joke. What shoots well in my rifle and the pressures and velocities I get can and most often will be vastly different in the next rifle even it the came off the assembly line one behind the other.
Who can make the best rifle of who can hit a speck of dust in California while standing in Georgia and facing east is just stupid and driven my misused testosterone.
Blown out of proportion by two guys who cannot be wrong.
jim62: Mike,...one of your drivers is participating in an internet pissin' match, and I want him fired.
Mike: Wat?
jim62: It's Scott F,..one of your drivers. You need to fire him. He engages in pissin' matches on the internet.
Mike: Well,...he ain't pissed in the truck yet. *click*
That's a funny little narrative you composed there Bristoe, but it misses the point.
To be similar to what Burn's has to put up with here, me and about 20-30 of my friends would have to bombard Scott's boss with phone calls and emails falsely impugning his character or ability to actually do his job- i.e. jeopardize his livelyhood or job with baseless accusations.
I bet if 20-30 folks accused him of hiring a rig out improperly, wreckless driving ,running cars off the road, being in an unreported accident in a company vehicle etc etc, it would cause some heartburn.
Nobody deserves such treatment simply because you don't "like" someone.
Spellcheck is your friend. Quit while you have one.
[bleep],
Do you think I actually come here for your friendship?
Go [bleep] yourself, dumbazz.
I misspell schit here JUST to pissoff anal jackwagons like you..
jim62: Mike,...one of your drivers is participating in an internet pissin' match, and I want him fired.
Mike: Wat?
jim62: It's Scott F,..one of your drivers. You need to fire him. He engages in pissin' matches on the internet.
Mike: Well,...he ain't pissed in the truck yet. *click*
That's a funny little narrative you composed there Bristoe, but it misses the point.
To be similar to what Burn's has to put up with here, me and about 20-30 of my friends would have to bombard Scott's boss with phone calls and emails falsely impugning his character or ability to actually do his job- i.e. jeopardize his livelyhood or job with baseless accusations.
I bet if 20-30 folks accused him of hiring a rig out improperly, wreckless driving ,running cars off the road, being in an unreported accident in a company vehicle etc etc, it would cause some heartburn.
Nobody deserves such treatment simply because you don't "like" someone.
Spellcheck is your friend. Quit while you have one.
[bleep],
Do you think I actually come here for your friendship?
Go [bleep] yourself, dumbazz.
I misspell schit here JUST to pissoff anal jackwagons like you..
Can you ask the asparagus.... Why does my piss smell when I eat it?
[gus]Who eats their own piss? Why would the asparagus know this? Is that the proper authority on eating/drinking your own piss? Does anyone know for sure? Can the world survive if we're all eating our own piss?[/gus]
Asparagus is a form of grass and that's why it smells like horse piss in your urine. I can only imagine what horse piss would smell like if they ate asparagus.
Can you ask the asparagus.... Why does my piss smell when I eat it?
[gus]Who eats their own piss? Why would the asparagus know this? Is that the proper authority on eating/drinking your own piss? Does anyone know for sure? Can the world survive if we're all eating our own piss?[/gus]
Didn't Ghandi drink his own urine? Wonder if he ate or avoided asparagus?
Can you ask the asparagus.... Why does my piss smell when I eat it?
[gus]Who eats their own piss? Why would the asparagus know this? Is that the proper authority on eating/drinking your own piss? Does anyone know for sure? Can the world survive if we're all eating our own piss?[/gus]
Sometimes I come online here and see a certain thread and am reminded of a guy I saw once. 115v appliance connected to 220v, admire the smoke for a moment and find something else to do.
I mentioned it on another post, but you should head over to the Optics forum Pete and give holy hell to the Leupold bashers. It's been going on for years and Rick sells Leupold.
After that I've seen numerous posts attacking Chevy, and Chevy trucks is a sponsor.
If you take a look, JB was certainly not the first one to cast a stone in this whole debacle. He was personally attacked and berated for a long time while keeping his cool before he finally gave in to the childishness, and retaliated. He was a cool and a nice guy in my opinion before the bully squad started picking on him and his prices. Now he has resorted to childish behaviour that is not doing him any favours, granted, but he was as nice as any of the guys around here to begin with.
Jordan, I think Burns had the right to remain silent, he just did not have the cap a bil ity. Maybe it showed who he really is. Steve
Or maybe it showed alot about the people on both sides?
Dude, we know about our side. We ain't selling nuttin. Steve
jim62: Mike,...one of your drivers is participating in an internet pissin' match, and I want him fired.
Mike: Wat?
jim62: It's Scott F,..one of your drivers. You need to fire him. He engages in pissin' matches on the internet.
Mike: Well,...he ain't pissed in the truck yet. *click*
That's a funny little narrative you composed there Bristoe, but it misses the point.
To be similar to what Burn's has to put up with here, me and about 20-30 of my friends would have to bombard Scott's boss with phone calls and emails falsely impugning his character or ability to actually do his job- i.e. jeopardize his livelyhood or job with baseless accusations.
I bet if 20-30 folks accused him of hiring a rig out improperly, wreckless driving ,running cars off the road, being in an unreported accident in a company vehicle etc etc, it would cause some heartburn.
Nobody deserves such treatment simply because you don't "like" someone.
Spellcheck is your friend. Quit while you have one.
[bleep],
Do you think I actually come here for your friendship?
Go [bleep] yourself, dumbazz.
I misspell schit here JUST to pissoff anal jackwagons like you..
One small area of advantage the bedding blocks hold over a straight synthetic is the aluminum block below the action will counter act the thermal expansion of the aluminum scope above the action.
Aluminum linear thermal expansion is 2 � times more than the ferritic stainless steel commonly used in rifle actions. This will have an effect on your zero over a relatively large change in temp.
By using a bedding block stock I no longer see the � MOA shift from my summertime zero to my winter time zero.
Our bedding block has a double radius design that will work very well without additional bedding but I do bed all of my rifles and all customer guns are bedded. The addition of the bedding gives one peace of mind.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
In a hunting siltation a there is no shielding from a drastic drop or rise in temp. Your equipment will be at ambient temp very quickly. Load your rifle in a saddle scabbard, carry it on your back, or just use a sling and very quickly your �system �will be at ambient temp�.
If the optic expands at almost 3 times the rate as the action and you have zeroed at a significantly different temp from the actual hunting conditions you will see a variation in your zero.
Many guys have mistakenly thought this was due to a change in elevation when they zeroed their rifles in the east and then headed west to a cool temp and higher altitude. Temperature was the real culprit as it affected the actual scope vs. action relationship.
If the stock has an aluminum bedding block this will mitigate the change in zero to a great degree.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
The block will come to the ambient temp of the environment. It will just be slower to heat or cool due to the insulation of the stock. It is bolted to the steel action and will stay very close to the temp of the action during a change in temp.
The big issue is how fast the optic can change temp if exposed to a heat source such as direct sunlight. If you take your rifle out of the case and then lay it in direct sunlight the optic will heat and grow much faster than the action and block.
The action is actually fairly flexible in the area between the scope mounts. More of it is cut away than is left with the mag cutout and the ejection port.
The block also adds a degree of stiffness to this area of the action
We have had informal no rangefinder matches at unknown distances....but you get to use ranging reticules and know the target sizes. That would be a crazy match with with no ranging reticules....kinda like ready set guess. Although, if you got a spotting shot it could be interesting.
Originally Posted by rost495
1500 meters unranged.... thats interesting. Would have to be done with a scope with nothing but a straight crosshair in it, no other way to cheat ranging by mil type sizing.
Beyond that, its not realistic at all, no sane long range shooter would attempt a long shot without checking the range.
I'd love to play this, I'm out though, not in the cards of my life right now plus I'm so rusty I suck shooting wise lately. Missed a doe head due to a screw up on my wind guess the other week, measly 252 yards. Had the wind right... but then looked it over hard and decided that the ridge and trees blocked a fair amount of it... I was wrong, it was my first calc at full value... of couse the second berger put the brain on the ground and then she fell.
One small area of advantage the bedding blocks hold over a straight synthetic is the aluminum block below the action will counter act the thermal expansion of the aluminum scope above the action.
Aluminum linear thermal expansion is 2 � times more than the ferritic stainless steel commonly used in rifle actions. This will have an effect on your zero over a relatively large change in temp.
I knew there was a reason I liked that old steel tube Weaver!
Sometimes I come online here and see a certain thread and am reminded of a guy I saw once. 115v appliance connected to 220v, admire the smoke for a moment and find something else to do.
One small area of advantage the bedding blocks hold over a straight synthetic is the aluminum block below the action will counter act the thermal expansion of the aluminum scope above the action.
Aluminum linear thermal expansion is 2 � times more than the ferritic stainless steel commonly used in rifle actions. This will have an effect on your zero over a relatively large change in temp.
I knew there was a reason I liked that old steel tube Weaver!
I don't know how Johnny can get a cheek to stock weld on a rifle anymore from the most recent pic of him on here anyways. So the whole thing is kinda moot anyways. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤔🤣🤣🤣
I don't begrudge anyone for what they make (except congress)off their work. As long as someone is willing to pay their price and is happy to do so I say more power to them. Free enterprise and all.
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I have been considering a 7/08 for f-class open but can find no advantage over the 6x47 or .284 other than my affinity. I peddled my last 7/08 off but am going to get in the shop and crank a lite weight version very soon.
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