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Joined: Oct 2010
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With a medium to large bore dangerous game rifle my main priority is not the group size it will punch on paper at the range under controlled conditions. Many times I hunt in nasty conditions, and in a dangerous game rifle I want a stainless steel action/barrel, synthetic stock, complete dependability and CRF. Doesn't matter to me if the rifle will only shoot 1.25" groups off a bench rest as I don't plan on using it for long range 'varmint hunting'.. I current own a very nice, accurate Win M70 Stainless Classic 375 H&H, but I am also considering purchasing one of the Ruger 375 Alaskans. I just feel that the Alaskan would be just as weather resistant and dependable as my M70, and I think the shorter overall length is a positive feature. (And no, I don't want to butcher my M70 375 by cutting down the barrel, etc..) I'm a long time M70 fan, but from the reviews and information I've read the CRF 20" stainless Ruger Alaskan sounds like an ideal dangerous game rifle for use in extreme conditions. I've also found new 375 Alaskan's priced in the $775 range which is a heck of a deal, especially when you consider that you don't have to spend an additional $100+ for a secure scope mounting system. But anyway that's just my opinion, and opinions vary..
'Nam Vet '67, '68, '69
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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These bigger dong competitions always sure are funny...
There are presently 12 Sako's in my safe. I've never had any issues with them; of course I am not picking fights with bears, but I'd imagine quite a few European hunters do and some go to Africa with them (only with neophtes, I suppose).
Yes, I like the Rugers as well and own them too. I have fixed one that puked the mag latch and dumped its rounds after some hard use (in Iowa of all places). It won't stop me from buying Rugers in the future.
I suppose the greatest animal fighting arm needs serious consideration as to the size and accumen of its safety when SHTF; it might become a guide rib spring...or it could be it's just fine.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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I owned ONE, a very expensive and inaccurate Sako Safari in 375. The accuracy guarantee is something you paper punchers love and besides the two Rugers I own, a 416 Rigby and a 338, are both half MOA shooters. The Ruger is specifically designed for African DG hunting, down to the finish, bomb-proof V sight and of course CRF which the Sako is not. Like I said, not even close. jorge Was it possible that the Sako you speak of was an old Sako? One prior to their new line? I don't believe they used to have enough faith in their manufacturing process to offer any accuracy guarantees - but they do now. Why? Because of their total confidence in how they are building them - now. I guess you are unfamiliar with the newest model they make - the Sako 85. My 375 H&H is a controlled-round-feed. It's also the finest built factory rifle I have ever owned. First, it's not two pounds over-weight - it is 7 lbs naked. It's the weight a 375 H&H should be. Second, it easily meets it's accuracy guarantee - even with cheap ammo. With hand loads the groups shrink further. Third, it has a clip system - ideal for dangerous game - like the real danger that comes, when you hunt without having a guide backing you up. When you, and you alone, have to deal with trouble you get yourself into. Within seconds I can drop an empty clip, and then I can quickly put another clip with another 4 rounds in my rifle - with one hand. Fourth, it's trigger is flawless, smooth, crisp and so predictable. Fifth, being that it IS a CRF rifle - contrary to what you stated, mine feeds upside down, downside-up, left-side up, right-side up, always feeds so slickly, it makes you wonder if it has actually chambered a round. It might be the smoothest and slickest factory-built CRF action ever made. I have no doubt Ruger makes good rifles too. But in comparison to the Sako 85, they are overweight and they aren't confident enough in their own manufacuring process to offer any accuracy guarantees. That - in itself - is way more important, and way more telling, than needing sub-moa accuracy in a DGR. Of course we don't NEED sub-moa DGR's. What we really need in a DGR - is that they are built impeccably. It's the company's confidence in it's own tolerances and their quality that matters. Only companies with total confidence in the quality of their products can ever afford to offer such guarantees - even if that extreme amount of accuracy is unneeded. Still, the presence of such a guarantee - speaks volumes about the company. The lack of one - says even more about those other companies. If they could guarantee their product - they would. The Sako 85 isn't a rifle you buy - before you visit your local gunsmith, to have it worked on. It's a rifle guaranteed to be good, right out of the box. That means a lot - at least, it does, to a lot of other folks.
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Third, it has a clip system - ideal for dangerous game - Of course we don't NEED sub-moa DGR's. What we really need in a DGR - is that they are built impeccably. A clip system on a DGR? LOL! That right there is enougn for me (and probably 100% of the PHs out there) not to buy one. If the SAKO makes you happy, fine, but as a DG I'll take the Ruger.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101
Campfire Outfitter
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Third, it has a clip system - ideal for dangerous game - Of course we don't NEED sub-moa DGR's. What we really need in a DGR - is that they are built impeccably. A clip system on a DGR? LOL! That right there is enougn for me (and probably 100% of the PHs out there) not to buy one. If the SAKO makes you happy, fine, but as a DG I'll take the Ruger. I don't think the clip-system in a Sako 85 - is like any other you have ever seen. Again, things are perhaps different - in multi-rifle situations, like those that always occur on guided hunts in Africa. When you are hunt alone, a clip, like the one in the Model 85, is a good thing. I'll agree to disagree with you, on the quality built into the newest Sakos. Regards,
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
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Campfire Tracker
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I owned ONE, a very expensive and inaccurate Sako Safari in 375. The accuracy guarantee is something you paper punchers love and besides the two Rugers I own, a 416 Rigby and a 338, are both half MOA shooters. The Ruger is specifically designed for African DG hunting, down to the finish, bomb-proof V sight and of course CRF which the Sako is not. Like I said, not even close. jorge Was it possible that the Sako you speak of was an old Sako? One prior to their new line? I don't believe they used to have enough faith in their manufacturing process to offer any accuracy guarantees - but they do now. Why? Because of their total confidence in how they are building them - now. I guess you are unfamiliar with the newest model they make - the Sako 85. My 375 H&H is a controlled-round-feed. It's also the finest built factory rifle I have ever owned. First, it's not two pounds over-weight - it is 7 lbs naked. It's the weight a 375 H&H should be. Second, it easily meets it's accuracy guarantee - even with cheap ammo. With hand loads the groups shrink further. Third, it has a clip system - ideal for dangerous game - like the real danger that comes, when you hunt without having a guide backing you up. When you, and you alone, have to deal with trouble you get yourself into. Within seconds I can drop an empty clip, and then I can quickly put another clip with another 4 rounds in my rifle - with one hand. Fourth, it's trigger is flawless, smooth, crisp and so predictable. Fifth, being that it IS a CRF rifle - contrary to what you stated, mine feeds upside down, downside-up, left-side up, right-side up, always feeds so slickly, it makes you wonder if it has actually chambered a round. It might be the smoothest and slickest factory-built CRF action ever made. I have no doubt Ruger makes good rifles too. But in comparison to the Sako 85, they are overweight and they aren't confident enough in their own manufacuring process to offer any accuracy guarantees. That - in itself - is way more important, and way more telling, than needing sub-moa accuracy in a DGR. Of course we don't NEED sub-moa DGR's. What we really need in a DGR - is that they are built impeccably. It's the company's confidence in it's own tolerances and their quality that matters. Only companies with total confidence in the quality of their products can ever afford to offer such guarantees - even if that extreme amount of accuracy is unneeded. Still, the presence of such a guarantee - speaks volumes about the company. The lack of one - says even more about those other companies. If they could guarantee their product - they would. The Sako 85 isn't a rifle you buy - before you visit your local gunsmith, to have it worked on. It's a rifle guaranteed to be good, right out of the box. That means a lot - at least, it does, to a lot of other folks. It also appears that the M85 does away with the guide rib so there is none to FUBAR a reload while being charged. Sorta fits the latest 24CF member war chant; "Best in the world...the whole world."
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I think SAKOs are great rifles, don't get me wrong, but for this specific application and using the "whole rifle" concept, the Ruger, at least in my limited African experience is the hands down winner. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101
Campfire Outfitter
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I think SAKOs are great rifles, don't get me wrong, but for this specific application and using the "whole rifle" concept, the Ruger, at least in my limited African experience is the hands down winner. jorge Your African experience - however limited in your eyes - absolutely trumps mine - as I have zero experience there. Over there, I'll concede you just might be right.
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,760
Campfire Regular
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Why would the Sako 85 detachable magazine be a deficit? It's near battlefield proof with its latch system to eliminate any dumping of the mag from error or recoil. The design makes for a very effective magazine change. And in addition it is double stacked like a military mag so you can charge from the top. I just cannot see any situation where it would cause a fumble as the design is well thought out for use under difficult field conditions.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
- Clint Eastwood
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Had the same event occur at the range with my AV Sako .375HH. Earlier Sakos don't have the guide rib retained by a tiny flat spring. Guide ribs use to be drilled and pinned. Next time the Sako goes to the gunsmith, that will be something I'll have him do. Can you expound on this? How is it done? I have vague memories of a Handloader article by Wootters about this very subject but can't find it. Pete The best way I can describe the pinned guide rib may not be very helpful unless you have access to Frank de Haas's 'Bolt Action Rifles' (revised ed)or another exploded diagram. On page 207 there is an exploded view of the L-46 Vixen Sako action. A study of the picture shows a retaining pin (#25-56), that fits in a pin hole in the guide rib, just behind the narrow part of the slot that that the guide rib collar (#24-55)fits into. The pin is put in place after the guide rib is assembled on the bolt and positively prevents the guide rib from sliding forward. Pinning was a far more secure assembly method but Sako went to the clover leaf spring retainer. It was just plain folly, especially for the Safari class rifles. For the gunsmith, or even a moderately talented bubba, the job is simply to drill a pin hole vertically through the guide rib and install a pin. 10 minutes of a gunsmith's time if that. For the AV action, where the bolt has two guide rib bolt collars, 15 minutes. However, I imagine that pinning only one bolt collar would be sufficient. Alternatively, it may be (im)possible to hunt down a NOS guide rib that was made to be pinned. Thanks. In my 3rd edition DeHaas it's on page 383, but there's also a diagram of the L61 showing one pin located at the front collar. Now to find a smith. Pete
There is nothing made by man, which cannot be broken by woman.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 266
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Jorge i agree with most things you say but what is wrong with a clip in a DGR? I have a Ruger Alaskan 20" barreled 375 Ruger in the mail to me right now and one thing i thought would be nice if it had a clip. Like military guns a quick reload is very good to have in a fight. Dan
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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gunbug: I really don't have an air-tight reason for you other than my gut feeling of having to fumble with the latch to open the receiver and also, I measure DGRs by what the PHs use and I can't think of a single one I know that uses a detachable magazine. Just a preference I guess. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 266
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Hi: Before this the only clip rifles i have used are military and a couple of .22s but my wife got a clip rifle for xmas last year and i really like it.The Ruger Alaskan i have coming will not be wearing a scope so it will be much quicker to load.Hop eyou and yours have a great xmas. Dan
Last edited by gunbug; 12/22/10.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You too and go kill something big up there with it! Man I envy you guys that live up there!
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Regular
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Thanks JWP, you said it better I ever could have!!!!
Language does matter.
Pete
There is nothing made by man, which cannot be broken by woman.
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jesse, if you get the sako, I hope it is a good one, mine was not. I also have a grip of ring screws that are actually high quality. if you need a set lemme know...you can have em'.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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I know I know but everyone here calls it a clip and i got tired of correcting them so i switched
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