|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Energy doesn't kill critters; holes in votals do.
Put a good bullet in the vitals, with enough mojo to poke all the way through (over-penetrate), and it's a dead critter. Very few bullets dig through and punch out like a TSX/TTSX, and either of the cartridges she's currently shooting offer the horsepower to kick one of those bullets well enough to do the job.
The 7-08 suggestion for the SA (Kimber Montana?) is not a bad one at all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
308, totally elk capable. Mild recoil (given the right handle). Available world wide. 270 ditto, but more recoil.
Forget the Mag's...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,247 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,247 Likes: 1 |
7mm-08 w/ 150 NP's chuggin along @2700 and a good pad, will git it done for her.
Gunner
Trump Won!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
The only potential fly in the .308 ointment is that it might not be legal in the African country they'll be hunting (military round restrictions). If that's not an issue, then don't fret it.
Agreed on forget the magnums.
It is, however, rather amazing that hunters before our time, and older hunters, and women, and locals, tend to kill the absolute Hell out of critters with no difficulty using "marginal" cartridges...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Regardless of headstamp, good on you for doing all you are doing with your daughter. Enjoy!
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,741
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,741 |
I am debating myself on a cartridge for my 15 yr old daughter for her to hunt elk and plains game with. She presently shoots a .257 Roberts and shoots a .270 occasionally. I have stocks cut down that fit her on both rifles. ... One of her requirements with a rifle is that it does not weigh too much. Her .257 Roberts 700 Mtn rifle wears a Ti stock and the .270 700 ADL does too so both those guns are not too heavy. ...
It sounds like the folks here want to talk you into buying a new rifle, so they could then talk you out of these well-thought-out shooters! A 700 Mountain Rifle in a Ti stock is just about... perfect! ... the .270 she has will be fine. ... [L]et her keep shooting that rifle and gain more confidence and go hunting. ...
And there's your answer! I can't argue with the suggestions of .260's, or 7mm-08's, or .308's. It's just that I'm too dense to sense much difference between those suggestions and the .270 when it comes to recoil or killing power. Gradually step her up into full power hunting loads, get into some 150 grain bullets, & let her shoot 'til she's proficient from field positions. And if you've got 2 or 3 years before the Africa hunt, let her be the one to come to you, say, "Dad, I think I'm gonna need a bigger rifle." Regardless, you're on the leading edge of our culture to be investing in your relationship with your daughter. Kudos to you! FC
"Every day is a holiday, and every meal is a banquet."
- Mrs. FC
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,516
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,516 |
C-Roy,
Try a .277" 130 grain Nosler E-Tip started at around 2600 fps (possible with H4895 - Hodgdon can help with more info). Based on Nosler's listed BC for the E-Tip, that 2600 fps muzzle velocity should give you 1800+ fps impact velocity out past 400 yards (Nosler's recommended minimum impact velocity is 1800 fps for the E-Tip). The nice thing is the recoil on that load would be around 13 ft-lb for a 6.5 lb gun. You could have her practice with 130 grain Ballistic Tips at even lower velocity.
You could also use a 130 grain Accubond or Partition, but you would want to bump up the muzzle velocity a little due to the lower ballistic coefficients for the Accubond and Partition (perhaps 50 fps for the Accubond and 100 fps for the Partition - check with an external ballistic calculator).
One word of caution - Due to the higher impact velocity needed for Barnes TSXs, I would increase the muzzle velocity by at least 200 fps if I was going to use a 130 gr TSX instead of an E-Tip (and I certainly wouldn't recommend using the TSX if you are trying to minimize recoil). If you REALLY want to use TSXs, talk to Barnes about minimum impact velocity for the bullet you are considering and then use an external ballistic package to see what muzzle velocity you need to stay above the minimum impact velocity out past 400 yards.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,244
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,244 |
C_ROY----------You forget one important thing.....
What does SHE wanna hunt with???????laffin
George
"Hunting, fishing, roping, working, sleeping, eating. Not always in that order."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605 |
my daughter uses a 7-08 to chase everything from speed goats to elk......
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,149 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,149 Likes: 11 |
If you load the .270 down 100 fps with a good 130-140 grain bullet, such as a Barnes TTSX or Nosler E-Tip, it will kick like a 7mm-08 and neatly kill any elk or plains game.
The .270 Winchester is a pretty good version of the .270-08 AI. It's even popular in Africa!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,856 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,856 Likes: 5 |
JB, my girl shoots EXACTLY that load on elk (mild 270 with 130 TSX's), and the tenderloins last night were beyond delicious.
The only thing better would be if she could carry the HEAVY pack out next time..... LOL! Dutch.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,149 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,149 Likes: 11 |
Dang those lazy kids anyway! But congratulations are in order, all around.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,324
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,324 |
Ok I am not calling anyone out because I know I am a hypocrite when it comes to these types of recommendations.  I too have advised folks that they are better off with their deer rifle than buying a new magnum rifle before their first elk hunt but who here actually hunts elk with a 7-08 or .270? I carry my .338 and will use it again next fall in WY and when I hunt caribou in AK just like I did this year in BC hunting moose. Granted these areas are grizz areas and I felt better with the .338 in tow than with my .270. When my daughter I and go to Africa for plains game I will be bringing the .338 as well. So fess up do you practice what you preach?
PASS IT ON!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,516
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,516 |
C-Roy,
If you would feel better about your daughter using "more gun," then try a .308" 150 grain E-Tip out of a .308 Win or .30-06 (or .300 Savage) at around 2550 to 2600 fps or a 150 grain Accubond at around 2600 fps (again look at H4895 for your powder). The recoil would be around 15 to 16 ft-lb for a 6.5 lb gun, and those loads should be good out to a little over 400 yards. Even if your daughter is recoil sensitive, she should be able to work up to that level of recoil over the next two years.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 874
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 874 |
I would suggest you look at a 6.5x55. I have one and they are very accurate with not much more kick that a .243. They are used in Africa a lot for Antelope up to and including 600 LB Antelope. They are also used to hunt Moose in Finland and the upper Europian countries. We have disregarded the metic calibers for the most part in this country. This is a .270 Junior or so to speak. Fun to shoot at the range. Bullets weights from 100grn to 160 grain. Mine really likes the 120 Barnes TTSX and a Max. load of RL-19. I have a Tikka T3. Buckfever1
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,516
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,516 |
C-Roy,
Going back and reading your post about your daughter's hunt schedule (mule deer and pronghorn in 2011, elk in 2012 and 2013, and Africa in 2014), I would recommend working your daughter up to something between a very mild and a full powered .257 Roberts load for your mule deer and pronghorn trip in the fall (let your daughter give you input on what she is comfortable with in terms of recoil), and then working up to the mild 2600 fps .270 130 grain E-Tip load for the first elk hunt, and then evaluate whether you want to step up to a mild .308 Win 150 grain E-Tip (at 2550 to 2600 fps) load for the second elk hunt and Africa hunt. You can evaluate along the way, and as she gets older and progresses in her shooting, she'll let you know how she's doing with gradually increasing recoil.
The first key is good accuracy from your daughter and her enjoyment in shooting and hunting. Diameter of bullet is less important than either of those other factors.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,817
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,817 |
I am debating myself on a cartridge for my 15 yr old daughter for her to hunt elk and plains game with. She presently shoots a .257 Roberts and shoots a .270 occasionally. I have stocks cut down that fit her on both rifles. I also have plinking loads for both guns that leaves the muzzle at 2000 fps. So she enjoys shooting and I just slip in a hunting load when we head to the field. In the excitement of a shot on game she never realizes the increase in recoil or velocity over her plinking loads.
One of her requirements with a rifle is that it does not weigh too much. Her .257 Roberts 700 Mtn rifle wears a Ti stock and the .270 700 ADL does too so both those guns are not too heavy. Since I shoot a .338 and I have a plinking load I use with a 180 BT and H-4895 that leaves the muzzle at 1950 fps I was thinking of picking up another .338 and let her use this. I could reduce hunting loads to .338 Federal or .338-06 levels? I thought about getting her a .338 federal but I am concerned with the lack of trajectory with that cartridge in making a 400 yd shot at an elk that is very possible where I hunt. The .338 federal would be fine in Africa for plains game. The other thought is maybe a .300 WSM? Maybe a 7mm Rem Mag?
Here�s the debate I keep telling myself the .270 she has will be fine and just let her keep shooting that rifle and gain more confidence and go hunting. But I personally would not choose to take a .270 on my elk hunts or on a trip to South Africa for plains game so why would I let my daughter do so? I�m stuck what would you do?
................After reading your post, you may be looking for problems where there may not necessarily be any? Since its intro in the mid 20s, the 270 has taken ALOT of elk and over many decades, its been successfully used on small and large African plains game as well. One`s comfort level or lack of it with a certain cartridge is no doubt a personal thing, but I as just one observer, fail to understand why the 270 would not be adequate for elk or for African plains game. But with that said, everything is going to have a tradeoff. If you go to say a 7 Rem Mag or to a 300 WSM for your daughter, you will have some increased recoil. And if any new rifle happens to be a lighter one for her to easily carry while on hunts as you indicate that you wish for, the field recoil and bench recoil both will increase. Imo, I would simply keep her shooting the 270. It is an excellent cartridge which exceeds the 257 Roberts in power. And although it won`t quite have the ballistic power on paper of the 7 Rem Mag or the 300 WSM, it is nonetheless an excellent compromise between the 257 that you have now vs any proposed 7mm RM or 300 WSM. No one with any knowledge should be telling you, that a 270 is not a sufficient elk round or is not a sufficient African plains round. If so, many would disagree with such an assessment.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950 |
C ROY
There are gobs and gobs of people here in Montana that hunt elk with a 7/08 and the 270. And, for what it's worth, there has NEVER, at least to my knowledge, been ANYONE killed or mauled by a grizzly because they had a 7/08 or 270 instead of a larger rifle.
With decent bullets, either of those cartridges would go end to end on a grizzly, I would guess, but it's kind of an educated guess from having shot a couple of animals with that class cartridge.
Fred
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,882 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,882 Likes: 6 |
If she's running a 270 already, then just stick with that. Might toss in a little tougher slug for some of the heavier game.
1Minute
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,856 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,856 Likes: 5 |
but who here actually hunts elk with a 7-08 or .270?
So fess up do you practice what you preach? Two 270's and a 280 in our family. I tend to shoot whatever gun I last purchased -- this year a 358 Norma -- but that's sort of like a 270, isn't it?  Dutch.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
|
|
|
|
|
645 members (16gage, 007FJ, 16Racing, 12344mag, 160user, 01Foreman400, 77 invisible),
3,052
guests, and
1,305
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,349
Posts18,487,864
Members73,970
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
