Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Recoil induced concussions and effects? or, Campfire Curmudgeons Explained?

Mule Deer kindly posted the following about recoil in another thread concerning the 6.5x55.



I find this to be fascinating information. Are we all giving ourselves minor concussions when shooting a "normal" rifle? Is the effect only cumulative or actually a result of one shot? Does this cause permanent damage?


And finally, is SICS [Shooting-Induced Concussive Syndrome] the actual explanation for the the existence of so many 'Campfire curmudgeons lately???

Dakota Deer: I can only speak for myself. Recoil concussion has only happened to me TWICE in my shooting history.

@1979 I acquired a Ruger 77 300 WM. On my first outing I shot it about 20Xs, but I did break those up w/o shooting continuously. When I was finished I had a headache.

I'm not certain when I had the 338 WM but I think @89-90. It too was a Ruger 77 (both older styles w/THIN BUTT PAD). I shot it to test powder charge pressures, later I chronoed it, and then shot a group, -1"moa. It hurt my shoulder all the time, but I only had a headache after chrono & grouping.

I believe the 338 had more recoil fp of energy but I shot the 300 more times on the same day.

I had shot an 8mmRM numerous times before either of those 2 incidents. The 8 is a Rem 700 BDL, not excessively heavy but it has a good factory recoil pad. I believe that's the difference.
Both the 338 & 8mm shot 220/225 gr bullets and the 8 loads had more powder.

Later I acquired that same 8mm and still have it.

I have shot A LOT of calibers with friends on the same day/days and those two occasions were DAYS TO REMEMBER.

Some CURDMUDGEONS are BORN THAT WAY, I think. LOL

JWALL
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Son I Don't Know You Well Enough To Miss You.........Johnny Cash

In both a serious and not so serious response I am going to start to use a Lead Sled and see if it makes a difference on extended range shooting days. One shot has never given me a headache even from my 9.3x62. And finally the SICS could explain the testy attitude displayed by some Campfire members. They have been knowen to lay in the weeds like a lurking Northern Pike
and jump on the unsuspecting with vengence. This SICS has probably been the sinister cause that we have fallen victim too. If only we played croquet, spent endless hours studying the next move for a chess game, or watched chick flicks with our girl friends and wives, we might have avoided contributing to our own demise! Buckfever1

Eileen Clarke (JB's other half) has an article in the current issue of Varmint Hunter about her struggles with recoil concussion. It's a good piece - and a scary one.

It's real, folks. It can happen with no warning on a single trigger pull, and it can put you out of action in pain for days. Whether it contributes to curmudgeonliness, I could not say -- but I do wish to point out that the biggest rifle I own is a .308!

I must be thick headed I guess.

Yes it can occur. Try shooting 400 to 500 rounds of 12ga a day for 2 or 3 days. Little headache, not concentrating well, inability to maintain visual focus. Restless.

Do it repeatedly over years and there is no doubt in my mind that it can happen. Big guys whose body mass sucks up recoil probably are less prone than others.

I have been noticing headaches when hunting ducks. Lots of 3 inch and 3.5 inch 12 ga is, I think, starting to take its toll on me. (we have lots of ducks up here and I miss a lot! ) Would love to knwo where to read up on this or how it is diagnosed. Might have to give up the big shot payloads and get more patient about letting the ducks come in closer or not shoot at them. Good thread, I will be watching this as I am pretty sure I am now a victim.

Now that I think about it, I do recall having a headache after the longest Whelen-shooting session I've undertaken so far. Hmmm... Perhaps my body is trying to tell me something by that feeling of euphoria I have every time I put the Whelen down, & start shooting the 7x57 instead.

I find this an interesting thread. I know folks have made similar observations about boxers & linebackers for decades. If we know that shooting can detach retinas, perhaps it's not so much of a stretch to imagine degrees of concussions, as well.

FC

I haven't read the article, but think that concussion is cumulative. Isn't concussion a swelling of the brain? What the long-term affect would be, I don't know, but it can't be good.

At our local gun club we have a lot of members who are now in their 60's and 70's. It is scary how many of the former competitive shooters (read high volume shooters) who now have flinches that are almost impossible to get rid of. I have seen some flinch now while using a .410.

Not the same thing as concussion but definitely a result of shooting.

Jim

I wasn't holding my '06 very well when I shot at a deer this past season, and the scope hit me between the eyes. I don't know that I sustained a concussion, but the blod ran down my face for about 10 minutes and I have a permanent scar. Not good.

I had a 10 gauge single shot that used to give me headaches hunting geese out by Pierre. After about 3 shots it just wasn't fun any more. Sent it on down the road to another lucky goose hunter one night at the motel back in town. I had a lot more fun goose hunting after that!

I never really considered that it was actually giving me concussions.

Concussions can have many side-effects other than headache, including loss of balance, amnesia and irritability. They also can change sleep patterns drastically.

They also aren't caused just by blows to the head. Severe blows to any part of the body can also be a cause. Shooting a hard-kicking rifle or shotgun obviously causes a serious bloe to our shoulder, which is closely connected to our neck and head, and the firearm may also whack our cheek pretty hard.

Sometimes concussions don't even result in immediate symptoms, whether headache or others. Repeated concussions can eventually cause permanent symptoms, even if they're not severe, the reason that boxers often show all sorts of symptoms. It's also the reason that there's been a lot more concern about football players in recent years, especially kids.

Repeated concussions ain't something to mess with, one reason I have started shooting lighter-recoiling guns in recent years, and shoot my bigger ones only when necessary AND when protected as much as possible.

I've heard several testimonies to the reality that lack of any hearing protection, particularly prolonged trap/skeet shooting, can result in uncontrollable shakes. Wouldn't surprise me that this could be related to concussions as well.

I've never personally experienced any headaches or after effects from time at the range...although a rude blast from someone's #@%&^%# muzzle brake at the end of the cannon he was shooting next to me one time certainly got my attention!

Also wouldn't surprise me a bit that going through more than 10 or so rounds with some magnums would rattle one's braincells. Don't understand why anyone would put themselves through that kind of self abuse.

Benelli exhibition shooter Tom Knapp amazes me. That guy chews up 12 gauge ammo like nobody I've seen, yet he remains cool as a cucumber. How long can it last?

I had a Sako rifle in caliber 30-378 Weatherby mag that would draw some stern looks at the club range. The club president (RIP) called it a cannon. He could tell when I was shooting from inside the clubhouse situated 200 yards off the firing line. Firing the thing left me with a "stunned" feeling and headache that lasted a couple hours. It was a beast! Oddly, I wish I still had that gun, if for nothing else but the WOW! factor. My 300 RUM is nowhere near as fierce.

Used to carry my clay bird reloads for the week in coded five gallon plastic buckets as it saved having to box and mark the boxes.

IRC could get around 400rds or so in them without damaging the carry handles. Went through approximately 3 buckets a week at various shoots. Can not believe today, did that without any pain after the fact.

Larger pistol of .44 Mag and up over the years, resulted in only a two hand hold for any extended shooting to support tendons in right wrist. 45/70 pistol forget it unless it has the muzzle brake, and that is only a trade off toward another problem even wearing hearing protection.

I can only hope like father, like son, it will be time for the 20 gauge when I'm 83.

Yep, it's cumulative! But so is tomorrow, and I hope we all have tomorrow for a good long while yet. Would I trade any of it off?

Nope!

One thing that always comes to mind when these discussions come up is Elmer Keith's report that, in his first year with the 44 Magnum, he fired 600 rounds through it. In a year , and this from Keith, who was, by all accounts, impervious to recoil. Perhaps he was wise in the ways of cumulative recoil?

Take some headache medicine before you go shooting

I am pretty sure that for exhibition shooting Mr. Knapp is using 1oz or at most 1 1/8 oz loads. I can shoot these a lot as well but a dozen or more shots with 1 9/16 ounces of steel shot or 1 3/4 oz of hevi shot? I think my days of doing this are over. Lots and lots of ducks killed with lesser loads anyway. My Pastor and good hunting buddy Owen Frost uses a 20ga for ducks and does really well. Thinking 1 1/8 oz of steel 3's should do just fine for 99% of the ducks I shoot at. Save the big loads for the rare shot at a goose. Actually thiking of selling my semi famous custom 416 Rigby. Love it, but a 9lb 9.3x62 or a double in 9.3x74 might just keep me in the game longer.

My guess is that Knapp is using 1-oz. loads, or maybe even lighter. Most of his trick shots are close-range.

Even the kick from the 1-1/8 oz. load can add up quickly, especially in a lighter gun. I went to Argentina once with Federal ammo to "field test" some new loads on ducks and doves. Included were a few cases of 12-gauge trap loads. After the first morning NONE of us wanted to shoot any more of those in the relatively light bird guns we were using. Of course we wee shooting 100+ rounds an hour, which makes a difference too.