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Joined: Jan 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,612 Likes: 1 |
This book covers the type of situation you are talking about and has a lot of helpful ideas: Patriots: Surviving in the Coming Collapse You need a group of people to ensure that there is someone on guard at all times and enough to fight off an attack. You should have a place that is located away from populations centers as those are the areas that will suffer the worse depredations. Have the resources required to farm and raise livestock. Stockpile supplies of gas and diesel because it won't be available. You need a large supply of ammo and reloading supplies. Standardise firearms and calibers. Prepare your retreat to for a firefight with bad guys. Solid bullet proof walls, doors and windows. Fire proofing. A source of water. Barriers to vehicles and people that don't provide cover. Hidden observation point and something to detect and warn of intruders. A dog or two is also useful. An alarm to rouse people in an emergency. A bicycle powered generator, solar panels and 12 volt wiring and 12 volt low power lights. A large supply of wood. Training so you will have someone skilled in: Medicine, Machining, Auto maintenance, carpentry/construction/plumbing, Reloading. Group training so you can fight together efficiently.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
not a war in history was won with weapons alone. Logistics wins wars.
The only two caveats I would throw up is that you should standardize on MILITARY GRADE WEAPONS. Not converted sporting guns, not Citizen home defense weapons, not things that only look 'tactical', but are not sturdy enough for the long run.
A single fire fight can put more wear and tear on a weapon than a life time of plinking at the range.
Second, make sure your training is up to par. Make sure your spare parts, knowledge of how to repair your firearms, and the mind set of your family is up to the task.
+1
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,003 Likes: 3
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,003 Likes: 3 |
Whatever guns you have for a SHTF scenerio they are going to be for only a couple things:
1. Protecting what you got from other people intent on taking what you got. Probably small groups or individuals
2. Used for taking game to provide food on the table.
This is just my opinion, but the illusion of fighting off hundreds of people and needing thousands upon thousands of rounds is imo just ridiculous. The reality is, if you face even a small group, say squad size, of an organized, trained and equipped force- you are toast. What do you have to fend off supresive fire from LMG's, grenade attacks, and heaven forbid artilary or airstrikes.
It is just a pipe dream. What you need is a safe place to hide out.
Just trying to survive in a non functional society will be hard enough, let alone with people out there trying to kill you.
Hemi
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,814 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,814 Likes: 11 |
It is just a pipe dream. What you need is a safe place to hide out.
Just trying to survive in a non functional society will be hard enough, let alone with people out there trying to kill you.
Hemi
I am not so sure that there IS a 'safe place to hide out'. There are places that are less accessible, harder to get to, but all of America has been explored and mapped for many years. A reason to have a goodly supply of ammunition, is that there is just no way of knowing how long a time of crisis and societal breakdown would last. If you ever did have to defend yourself, even from a small group of attackers, trust me, you can burn through more ammunition than you think you will. I would not be comfortable with less than 3K rounds for every combat worthy long gun, and at least a thousand for every combat hand gun. Knowing how to re load, and having a supply of components is a good idea as well.
Sam......
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,239 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,239 Likes: 2 |
If you are remotely serious, you ought to get a bolt action 22lr and 10,000 rds of ammo.
All the rest are heavy, and if you NEED them , you are probably toast anyway.
Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,003 Likes: 3
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,003 Likes: 3 |
Well, I guess I should have used the term "safer" place to hide out. Maybe your home is safer than say the next town over. Maybe it is your cabin in the woods, or maybe it is on your yacht in the middle of the carribean. IDK.
I'll agree with you on the need for more ammo than what you would expect.
But I'll leave you with this question. How long you think the average gunfight is going to last between two survivalist? Weather it be a group or mano e mano fight?
I'll guess this. If you have "invaders" trying to take your stuff and the bullets start flying, most will probably retreat. Maybe if they too have guns, they will let off some covering fire for their retreat. Most people are not ready to risk their lives and will go off to find "easier" pickings.
Now, the scenerio where they come in and don't flee after the inital shots- well their either hell bent on killing you or crazy and I don't really want to meet either of those people. In that cse, you are right. Mass supressive fire and lots of ammo.
Hemi
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,960 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,960 Likes: 7 |
Someone on one of these threads in the past said he keeps his cabin cruiser stocked and ready to be out to sea until the smoke clears. He was less worried about guns and ammo than he was fish hooks and propane.
Me, I'll go live with the Amish.
They say everything happens for a reason.
For me that reason is usually because I've made some bad decisions that I need to pay for.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,814 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,814 Likes: 11 |
no matter the location, no matter your preps, things probably will be pretty bad for us all.
I really feel for those that need maintenance meds and require electricity for medical equipment. Those folks are going to have a life expectancy measured much closer than the healthy.
The obese, as well, won't last long.
Sam......
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,683
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,683 |
if TEOTWAWKI comes will there still be LPE Inc.?
and if so we will we need to bet with, instead of opposite, their picks to make money?
i'm covered on the firearm gig we have a mod 67 .22 and half a box of shells
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
Food, water and gas will run out real quick in the cities and there will be gangs of thugs venturing out into first suburbia and then rural areas looking for easy pickings. You will probably have the loner looking to score to deal with but you will also at some point have gangs making their way out. You think they will rest content to starve to death in the city?
Why would anyone in their right mind hoard 10,000 rounds of .22lr and ignore the ease of 2000 rounds of .223? Good luck fending off that SUV filled with crackmonkeys with a .22lr.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 939
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 939 |
The best idea I can come up with is bugging out in a large sailboat. You can be very close to land and still be out of the reach of most of the wandering crazies. You have a ton of mobility, you have little to no need for gas, you'll be a hell of lot safer than on land. Very few people will choose this option. Most will drive into the "country" until they run out of gas, then wander around from there. Last place I'd want to be is with the masses on the highway. With a sailboat, you can hide out in remote places, maybe find a country where the SHNHTF. From a defensive position, you have a pretty good view of boats coming your way, so you can prepare accordingly.
Pretty soon, with lot of folks out foraging, small and larger game will be hunted pretty much to extinction. However, I doubt that I will ever run out fish to catch and if I do, I can always move the boat somewhere else. I'll never run out of drinking water and disposing of waste isn't a problem. Its easy to fit out a sailboat with a few solar panels to charge batteries for lighting at night.
I'm not sure I could live on fish alone, or in a sailboat forever, but I think this plan has fewer holes in it than most I've heard.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
This thread should shut the [bleep] DOWN,.....
the OP is running a Ron Paul Campaign thread now,....and hasn't the BALLS to respond to a CHITLOAD of good advice, and honest inquiry.
Bored,...plumb stupid,....or something worse ?
I dunno,....but the scenario STINKS
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411 |
sailboat has many attractions as a bug out vehicle.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,239 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,239 Likes: 2 |
Food, water and gas will run out real quick in the cities and there will be gangs of thugs venturing out into first suburbia and then rural areas looking for easy pickings. You will probably have the loner looking to score to deal with but you will also at some point have gangs making their way out. You think they will rest content to starve to death in the city?
Why would anyone in their right mind hoard 10,000 rounds of .22lr and ignore the ease of 2000 rounds of .223? Good luck fending off that SUV filled with crackmonkeys with a .22lr. location, location, location... if you're fighting, you won't last long. If you're hunting, you will need to last long. It would be a miracle if any of us get out of this world alive. Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,263 |
The best idea I can come up with is bugging out in a large sailboat. You can be very close to land and still be out of the reach of most of the wandering crazies. You have a ton of mobility, you have little to no need for gas, you'll be a hell of lot safer than on land. Very few people will choose this option. Most will drive into the "country" until they run out of gas, then wander around from there. Last place I'd want to be is with the masses on the highway. With a sailboat, you can hide out in remote places, maybe find a country where the SHNHTF. From a defensive position, you have a pretty good view of boats coming your way, so you can prepare accordingly.
Pretty soon, with lot of folks out foraging, small and larger game will be hunted pretty much to extinction. However, I doubt that I will ever run out fish to catch and if I do, I can always move the boat somewhere else. I'll never run out of drinking water and disposing of waste isn't a problem. Its easy to fit out a sailboat with a few solar panels to charge batteries for lighting at night.
I'm not sure I could live on fish alone, or in a sailboat forever, but I think this plan has fewer holes in it than most I've heard. Make sure you watch out for those badazz Waterworld dudes! They hide on their jet skis under the water.
I'm better when I move.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Stay outta' those "Islands" with the "Digesters" , too.
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
1. Wrist rocket and bags of marbles.
2. Rubber band gun
3. Rubber hatchet.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,683
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,683 |
i'm a landlubber, can only get to the cabin by boat or snowmachine, easy to drop enough trees behind you so you'd have some warning of others trying to get where we & the neighbors are.
done strategically the jams would be done in places where it would be easy to mow some trespassers down and take advantage of higher ground
if they have airpower we're toast, but if they have air at their disposal we'd be way down the list for a target it seems
just idle thoughts
doubt it will ever be needed, but a bit of comfort to know it's at our disposal and we're intimately familiar with the place as it's where we recreate
hope i can get my lpe pix by satellite phone & then call my bookie, that's the big worry
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,798
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,798 |
Well, Mini 14s are as expensive as a lot of other things that I'd take over them -- but not necessarily bad. Dare I say, even as a vehement opponent of an AR, I'd take one over it simply for compatibility. Then there's always the SU16, which is nice because it takes AR mags, and is featherlight. My instructor at Pine Tech said he's seen people take the lowest-end Savage rifles out of the factory box and shoot 1 MOA with them. Go for it. Whatever you do, for SHTF, you're going to want a lot of ammo -- thousands of rifle rounds. Pistol, not as important, but have enough to fill all your mags twice is a rule I like. Speaking of mags, get lots of those, too! 
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
1. Wrist rocket and bags of marbles.
2. Rubber band gun
3. Rubber hatchet. No flourescent paint ? GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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