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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
I am also sure it does, and we appreciate his service!
But how it pertains to the OP is another question. Though thankfully I have NO experience at all, I highly suspect it should be harder to kill a 2 legger than a 4 legger..... that would be pertinent to the discussion IMHO.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
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Then why do you go out of your way to disparage something you know nothing about and presumptuously assume that those of us who actually use and like the [fill in blank] are only trying to justify a bad purchase? Why do you condescendingly discount the experiences of those who do have actual experience with it yet offer nothing but negativity in return?
Ted, you should save this quote for the optics forum.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The question for me (and I assume others) is: If the 6.8 is far superior to my .223, should I sell my 223 and buy a 6.8. Well, no. The .223 v 6.8 begs comparison because the platform popular for both rounds, the AR. And ARs figured prominently in the discussion as a main reason for choosing the 6.8.
The predominate argument from the 6.8ers seems to be that it's a better performer IN AN AR. OK, I agree in somem ways, it's better. In some ways, it's a lot worse...varmint hunting, for example.
Nobody suggested anyone should sell their .223s, only that it wasn't as effective on larger critters than 6.8. That has been the point all along. Of course the 6.8 is not better at all things than .223, and nobody suggested that either. The same can be said for just about any 2 other cartridges you can compare as well. I too would pick .223 over 6.8 if the quarry was coyotes. I don't see where that was ever in dispute either. Since the topic of the thread is "6.8 SPC" and the OP asked about the merits of 6.8, not .223, it follows that the resulting discussion would center around the applications where the 6.8 IS superior. I think .223 is a far superior varmint cartridge, and I buttress that assertion with the expenditure of some 5 - 8,000 rounds of .223 every year at my favorite prairie rat town.
Ted
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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Now that I"ve been back from a school meeting and answered or commented enough
I'd like to say... I appreciate this mostly staying civil. One can always learn.
AND.. bullet choice makes a world of difference as does shot placement. Shoot em in the lungs with a tsx and expect em to run. Ding em in the lungs with an accubomb and more likely to fold. Use an accubomb to make long penetration might be a mistake.... but a tsx otoh... Similar to this past weekend.... BIL decides to shoot ttsx... in his 308, dings a javelina and I'd told him to break bones if he wanted it to stay were it was... as it was shot it in the heart and it ran. I asked him why he didn't stick with 125 BTs like he usually used....said he hear the ttsx was better but the dang thing ran off... bleeding... and dying quickly....
Its all in what you expect too.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,216 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,216 Likes: 26 |
Among the reasons Bill Wilson likes the 6.8 for pigs is that in his particular part of Texas the brush under the oak trees is very thick, and the rain comes down regularly, about 60" a year. When I hunted with him, last February, it rained a lot more than it didn't. So a blood trail doesn't help a lot, much of the time.
He likes the 6.8 with TSX's because even a really big pig can be shot where it will drop right there, even from odd angles. He not only shoots a lot of pigs himself, but has many guests. His preferred placement (which I have also heard from other Texas pig hunters, including many professional guides) is right in the middle of the neck, just in front of the shoulders. If placed right it gets the spine, but even if it misses the spine gets major blood vessels. Obviously, depending on angle this can require some penetration of bone, aside from the spine.
So far he likes the Tipped TSX in the 6.8 a lot, because it expands wider than the standard TSX, and hence cuts a bigger hole.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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IF its so dang good why don't we have it yet? What are you talking about? We do have it, in spades. There are tons of commercial rifles chambered for it right now. If I don't choose to roll my own, I can buy factory ammo for it at 90% of the gun stores in my area. If you're talking about military use, it's being used in Special Ops right now, but it probably won't ever totally replace 5.56 for economic and political reasons... though the Jordanian military is adopting it. The same can't be said for 6.5 Grendel, though you'll get no argument from me that it's a fine round. I even said it's a better LR round, and it's probably inherently more accurate by virtue of its PPC lineage. I debated between it and 6.8. I chose 6.8 only because it's much cheaper to shoot and they both do virtually the same thing at the short to moderate distances where I typically deploy an AR.
Ted
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Campfire Regular
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150 hogs I passed in my 20s..... Whats a matter with em running a bit? I was a big bowhunter, they always run then. Just gotta go look a bit.
As to killing em quickly, I honestly can't recall lately when I've not shot one in the head. Its the way to fly. And even as they scatter I try for the heads. But front shoulders work too. And as I've said, the 223 and select bullets have not let me down. If I feel the need for more, Its almost always reach for my 308s and sometimes my M1 Garands.... 06 semi auto works wonders.
They all die if you put a good bullet in a good place like I said. As to size.... we've only killed a few over 300, but all with bows, and all have been down in less than 50 yards. The ones with my 22, generally at feeders and let someone else shoot first, I let em scatter a hair and when the first one stops I ding em in the lungs with the 22 and then go look later after we get the first ones on the truck.. mostly 150 and under. But 150 and under with a 22 HP to the lungs they don't go far. That was when I only carried a 22 pistol as a backup years ago. I haven't shot one with a 22 in a long time. Most all have been either 223 AR or happenstance with a deer rifle.
I'd be glad to come up and try my 223 on your pigs though to see if they are tougher. Grins. And once again, if they are tougher(they could well have russian in them and almost all I've shot have been straight feral) we could try the 6.8 and see the difference for myself.
I bowhunt hogs quite a bit as well. Incidentally, all the hogs I've killed have been just in the past 7 years! I've hunted every year since I was 7, and for whatever reason, I never saw the first wild hog in these parts until I was in my mid 30's. Since then, it seems their numbers have exploded all of a sudden! There's nothing really wrong with them running. I just like the more immediate hit confirmation I get with DRT so when they scatter, I can tell which among similar looking pigs I've already hit. The way I see it, if I have a better mousetrap available to me, I'm gonna use it. With rifles, I try to take head shots when I can as well, but that shot isn't always available and isn't practical in target rich environments when they scatter after the first shot. We have a pretty good mix of the ferals and the more Russian / European variety on my place. One of my hunting buddies shot one a tad over 400; it was the largest one we've killed on the place so far that I'm aware of. Most of the adult hogs we kill weigh between 150 - 200. I've killed several that have topped 300, but they are far less common. A 300+ lb boar is a really tough, mean critter. I could tell you some stories about their toughness that I wouldn't believe myself had I not witnessed it!
Last edited by RifleDude; 03/01/11.
Ted
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Campfire Regular
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I'd be glad to come up and try my 223 on your pigs though to see if they are tougher. Grins. And once again, if they are tougher(they could well have russian in them and almost all I've shot have been straight feral) we could try the 6.8 and see the difference for myself.
Absolutely! You're welcome to come visit sometime! Maybe we could arrange some sort of "hunting exchange." 
Ted
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Though thankfully I have NO experience at all, I highly suspect it should be harder to kill a 2 legger than a 4 legger..... that would be pertinent to the discussion IMHO.
Just so I understand your point, are you saying that a human can take more damage from a bullet and survive or flee than an animal such as a hog or deer?
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
I've found the 223AI to drop deer far quicker than a 30/06. Stands to reason if the 6.8 is better at slaying larger critters than the 223 than the 30/06 should be twice that effective.
Just ain't so.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
The 5.56 is very capable of killing folks.
The 6.8 is probably better at shooting thru stuff and killing folks.
JM
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,348 Likes: 1 |
where is our resident Dink shooter Ingwe with his 22-250? This discussion is the same as our 308 vs 30-06 or 270 Win vs 243 etc. There are people who own 243's that do not own 30-06 rifles while those that own 30-06 rifles have both and claim far better results with the 30-06 over the .243 on 150-200 pound animals and yet somewhere in the back of our minds we all remember that dead is dead, a hole thru the vitals with even .17 caliber produces that results. I apologize for any antagonism that I generated in this thread, I really want to try the 6.8 in a short handy deer hunting rifle, that's a project for this year as well! In the gun shop I was in yesterday there were literally hundreds of 223 AR type weapons, many in boxes stacked on the floor, the place was full and people were spending money.
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Joined: May 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 2,337 |
Count me in for two deer and a antelope in 2010 all one shot.Kawi
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Count me in for two deer and a antelope in 2010 all one shot with the 6.8
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The 5.56 is very capable of killing folks.
The 6.8 is probably better at shooting thru stuff and killing folks.
JM Yep, which is a big part of the reason those SOC and AMU folks spent the time developing it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7 |
The 5.56 is very capable of killing folks.
The 6.8 is probably better at shooting thru stuff and killing folks.
JM My first cusins son has completed 3 combat tours in Iraq and he said that unless one hit them in the head or the heart they never found a body, just blood and they were gone. He shot one once and he could see the clothing move with every upper body hit, but the insurgent kept on going and got away
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7 |
Well, Gene, I believe you've convinced everybody to get rid of their 6.8's, especially after all your stories of hands-on experience. Please don't patronize me, John. My hands on experience is with the 5.56, and I know what it will do. Being an excellent gunwriter does not make you a final authority. But, the question is do you know what the 6.8 wil do?
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,192
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 10,192 |
The 5.56 is very capable of killing folks.
The 6.8 is probably better at shooting thru stuff and killing folks.
JM Yep, which is a big part of the reason those SOC and AMU folks spent the time developing it. I don't want to keep dragging this out but do you know if anyone is using the 6.8 now? I have read that the 6.8 was dropped by everyone including SF and they have gone to MK262. Of course this doesn't mean the 5.56 is better, worse or as good, just wondering if it really is dead or not.
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Campfire Regular
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I believe SOCOM is still using it.
The Jordanian military has adopted it.
It definitely isn't dead in the civilian market. Far from it.
Ted
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The 5.56 is very capable of killing folks.
The 6.8 is probably better at shooting thru stuff and killing folks.
JM My first cusins son has completed 3 combat tours in Iraq and he said that unless one hit them in the head or the heart they never found a body, just blood and they were gone. He shot one once and he could see the clothing move with every upper body hit, but the insurgent kept on going and got away Given M855 ammo and a 14.5" barrel with the resulting velocity loss, I can certainly understand a fringe hit not being lethal. But that goes with any bullet that won't open up or fragment regardless of caliber.
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