Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting "7mm-08, elk rifle wannabe"!

I dunno, JB. There's another blog on there where he talks about the .308 and 7-08 in very similar terms to the original post I quoted.

If it's humor, it's the dryest, most tongue in cheek, and.... humorless of humor. With no punch line.

I see the punch line in this thread......

Did you read this one, John?

I think you are wrong buddy.

Not Quite An Elk Rifle

In previous posts you may have read that the 7mm Remington Magnum and the .300 Weatherby Magnum have caused more wounded elk than any other cartridges I know. Number three and four are the .308 Winchester and the 7-08 Remington. Since very few hunters take .308s or 7-08s and many take 7mm Remington Magnums and .300 Weatherbys on elk hunts, percentage wise the order would be reversed.

The .308, 7mm-08 and .243 are based on the same case, the 7.62 NATO. On paper the 7.62 nearly approximates the cartridge it was designed to replace�the 30-06 Springfield, but experience shows it to be a distant second. The .308 and 7-08 are marginal elk cartridges. The .243 is NOT an elk cartridge. Granted they will all kill an elk, but the margin of overkill is low. For more information on what it takes to kill an elk read Bullet Energy Variable.

On perfect shots all three of these will kill an elk, but they do not have the power to smash through heavy bone and portions of muscle when taking the �raking shots� Elmer Keith describes.

If a person wants an elk cartridge with the length dimensions of the .308-class of cartridges, but with the power of the 30-06-class of cartridges, use either the .284 Winchester or a 30-284. Case capacity is that of the 30-06. In fact, in most situations 30-06 loading data can be used for the 30-284. Check YOUR loading data�don�t rely on my post, please.

.308 Winchester for Elk

Using Ackley�s figures (also found here) the .308 loaded with a 180-grain spitzer boattail bullet at 2600 feet per second has the minimum amount of energy to kill an elk out to 600 yards, adequate out to 400, and preferred out to 50 yards. With a 165-grain SBT at 2700 fps those figures work to 600 yards, 350 yards and 100 yards, respectively. .308, The Highpower Isuzu

7mm-08 Remington for Elk

The 7-08 loaded with a 175-grain SBT at 2600 fps has the minimum energy for elk out to 450 yards, adequate to 200 yards, and preferred at the muzzle.

It�s important to remember what the main use of the 7�08 is�rifle silhouette competition. Not that many years ago, the .308 was the standard silhouette cartridge. Shooters found that the 7-08 was as accurate as the .308, had enough energy to topple the rams at 500 meters, but had less recoil, which caused scores to climb. Silhouette is all shot offhand. Any rifle that kicks less�and gets the job done�will win matches. 7-08, Elk Rifle Wannabe

.243 Winchester for Elk

The .243 loaded with 100-grain SBT at 2900 fps has the minimum energy to kill an elk out to 150 yards.

When David Tubb switched from the 7-08 to the .243 for silhouette competition, his scores went up, and many others followed his lead. Rifles with a faster twist than found on factory rifles can shoot heavier bullet. Although the .243 will not always topple rams at 500 meters, the loss there is made up by fewer jerks, flinches and missed shots caused by heavier recoiling cartridges.

The .243 is a good deer rifle. It is also available on most varmint versions of factory rifles. You won't find many 30-06 or 300 Magnums in varmint models.

Wrap-up

In the late 1800s Rainbow Dam was built on part of the Great Falls of the Missouri referred to by explorers Lewis and Clark. The original dam was a wooden crib filled with gravel from a nearby hillside. Men (mostly Chinese) filled the crib by wheelbarrow. The job was completed with much time and sweat. Today the job would be done with front-end loaders, scrapers and concrete.

If you go elk hunting, use the rifleman�s version of the front-end loader, scraper and concrete�an elk rifle, not something designed to replace The Elk Hunter's Rifle.

TTFN

Return to Frequently Asked Questions"

Jeff,

Yeah, and I read his stuff on the .270 Winchester, which he thinks is great for elk. Since the ballistics of the 7mm-08 and .270 are so similar, this means either (1) the 7mm-08 story is meant to be humorous, or (2) he knows zero about what he's talking about.

The blog is full of quotes about the "energy" required to kill an elk. It also appears that writing from other people is mixed in with no obvious way to tell which is which. All of the writing is less than professional, so why would you expect any humor to be well-done?

My take is that entire blog-site is a joke, whether intentional or not.

Exactly!!!!!!!

I'm going with choice number 2), and "not intentional".

I didn't think I'd get there, but I have finally grown tired of the elk cartridge debate. When you get into the "gray area", you have a little less margin of error. Premium bullets at sane distances in the right place will still do the job.

I hear you BW. Just about anything will work if you put it in the vitals!!!!!!!!And no swampy I'm not talking about azz shooting stuff

Me,too

...after all, they're just an oversized deer......not an Abrams tank.

You might want to read this blog, just for entertainment value.

Among other things the guy "quotes" P.O. Ackley (who I don't believe ever shot an elk, and possibly not a deer, in his life) about the number of foot-pounds required to kill an elk.

The numbers don't come from Ackley himself, but from a chapter in his 1962 book HANDBOOK FOR SHOOTERS AND RELOADERS. The authority quoted is Paul Von Furstenberg, who according to Ackley "has had wide experience hunting big game and is an accomplished ballistics engineer." Von Rosenberg, however, admits that he had taken "just 50 head of big game, and witnessed about 30 more being taken by hunting companions." His 50 head "include deer, elk, antelope, goat and bear."

From this Von Rosenberg does some calculating and lists minimum, adequate and preferred foot-pounds for taking various kinds of big game, though he never mentions bullet construction except for full-metal-jacket and expanding types.

Our blogger evidently has great faith in these numbers. Or maybe it's one the people who post on his blog. He doesn't really differentiate.

Keyboard commandos...

If anyone needs to ask what to use on elk, maybe they shouldn't be hunting them?

I don't understand this kind of thread. Pointless and not informative in the least.

Tossing a dart in your own mind is ok, it upsets a lot less people and doesn't provide fuel for fools.

John

John,

To a certain extent you're absolutely right, but most American deer hunters (and at least 90% of Americans have never hunted any big game except whitetails) have heard all the stories about how elk are incredibly tough, and anything less than a .338-caliber, 250-grain bullet just won't penetrate, much less kill, a big bull.

Elk are the BIGGEST fantasy hunt of many of these deer hunters, and many will be spending several years of saved income to go on the one big elk hunt of their life.

You know exactly what it takes to kill a 600-800 pound animal, because you have done it hundreds if not thousands of times. But they don't--and will have one chance to do it. They don't KNOW, as you do, what will work. So they ask questions, and fantasize, and obsess about whether they have enough gun.

JB, that was so elequently stated. Thanks for shedding some light on the subject. I guess for those of us who hunt elk every year, we forget about the luster and assume we all have the same luxuries. Maybe some of us just take some things for granted without thinking of others or walking in their shoes...

One of the best pieces of advice anybody ever gave me came from one of my mentors in the writing business. He said, "Always remember the average guy."

That's somebody a lot of writers forget, including many posters on the Campfire.

JB,
This is good advice and I fall guilty of forgetting this at times. It is easy to review and move on, whereas there are always new people coming into the sport which I guess is why, we are often accused of repeating ourselves in print, which is the opposite side of the coin.

I always remember the lessons of EK where he was considered an African Rifle expert long before he ever set foot on that soil, simply because he knew cartridges and shot enough local game to see how they worked. Extrapolation is ok on that basis, if you really do test those cartridges and loads.

Maybe we could ask the question in reverse, what cartridge would you leave at home for an elk hunt? CO DOW says a .243 with 80gn bullet is ok for elk, but I do not see it recommended here? Personally, I would take one rather than cancel the elk hunt, but I would be perfectly happy with a 7mm/08.

John

I have used the term Normal Joe many times which refers to the normal hunter,not the rifle loonies...

The average hunter I know..Does not reload/does not shoot 100 rounds a year including 22 rimfire/does not care or ask about caliber needed for this or that and a box of factory bullets last a few years/and would never consider being on an internet chat room arguing bullets/rifles and caliber needed/ but they continue to put meat in the freezer year after year..

He just goes and gets his 30-30/30-06 or whatever out of the closet and dust it off and fires a round or two before hunting season to check sight in and foul the barrel.

I am a rifle loony compared to everyone I know but far from alot of guys on here.

It's all good though as were getting out and enjoying mother nature in some way or another.

Jayco

John,

As always, whenever the question of elk cartridges comes up, we have to define our terms. Over 95% of the elk killed each year are cows, calves and young bulls. The rest are "trophy bulls" of one size or another. A lot of hunters are perfectly happy using the .243 and similar rounds on "meat elk," but those are not usually used when hunting big bulls, whether when locals draw a tag or non-residents book a guided hunt.

And the big bulls are always when somebody posts something about, "So it's the last evening of your $12,000 hunt and the bull of a lifetime is heading away at 400 yards blah blah blah...."

Personally, my wife and I have never had any trouble killing elk (or moose, or African plains game) game with a .30-06 or 7x57 or .270--even some "bulls of a lifetime."

It's been my personal experience that easterners (at least from PA) who go west for their dream elk hunt normally forego their deer rifles (which commonly is a .30-06 around here) and buy some sort of a .300 Magnum, normally the Weatherby version. Why? Because guys obsess over what to take and ask around and someone usually talks them into a .300. I know a guy who got a great deal on a Winchester 70 in .300 Win mag. Why was it sold? To buy a .300 Weatherby mag for an upcoming elk hunt! Elk rifles and cartridges really are that overscrutinized here in the east.