I call BS.

"7-08, Elk Rifle Wannabe

What Went Wrong?

Two of our hunters walked back into camp just as I got the last mule loaded with elk.

One said, �Anybody want a bull elk? There are two up in the corner of the horsepasture.�

It was the third day of the first hunt. Three hunters had gotten bull elk on the second day. They decided to stay in camp, hunt deer and relax instead of going to town with me.

I said, �I haven�t got a license yet, plus I�ve got eight mules loaded and I need to get going.�

A high-pitched voice shrieked from the cooktent, �I want an elk.�

It was Michele, the cook.

The tent flap exploded. Michele ran toward me with her Browning BLR and pleaded, �Dennis, will you take me?�

�Let�s see.�

WE all walked out of the trees that obscured the horsepasture from camp. Sure enough, two rag-horn bull elk grazed 700 yards away in what we called the horsepasture.

I looked at the ground, rubbed my left hand over my forehead and eyes, and thought I know better, but this wouldn't take long. �OK,� I said, �let�s hit the trees.�

We had an almost direct route from camp through timber along the east side of the horsepasture. It brought us within 80-yards of the nearest bull and about 120 yards from the farthest bull elk.

I motioned Michele to the ground beside me and instructed, �Lay down and get a rest over this deadfall.�

She said, �I can�t shoot laying down.�

I may have looked at the ground and rubbed my forehead and eyes again, not sure, but I said, �Well, get situated, get a steady shot and hit the nearest bull right behind the groove behind his shoulder.�

She shot. Nothing.

I had my Steiner glasses. The bull didn�t wiggle. I said, �Take another poke at him.�

She shot. Nothing.

�Where were you aiming?�

Right were you told me to.

I said, �Shoot again. Take your time and squeeze one off.�

She shot. Nothing. Not even a flinch. Neither bull was concerned with us in the least, and both of them had seen us by now, and both went on grazing.

This went on for five shots. I figured she was out of shells and indicated I was going back to camp�I still had eight mules loaded and tied to the hitch rail, and I still had 19 miles of wilderness trail, 30 miles of gravel road and �town business� to conduct before sacking out in the evening.

I was wrong. Michele fished out a whole box of Remington Core-Lokts from her jean pocket. I am sure I looked at the ground and rubbed my forehead and eyes that time. The box and her inability to shoot prone indicated we were in trouble.

She reloaded and fired one. I decided to wait two minutes before each shot. I can�t say why, but I couldn�t believe that every shot had missed from that range. I hoped that he would keel over before we emptied the box.

Somewhere in the process the nearest bull laid down. The farthest still continued to graze.

Michele shot everything but five bullets.

I said, �Reload.�

After the reload, I said, �Now, we�re going to walk up on him. When we get 25 yards away, I want you to shoot him in the head.�

At about 35 yards, Michele couldn�t stand it. She said, �I�ve got to shoot him, NOW.�

�OK.�

We had walked into a depression between the bull and us. Michele kneeled down and shot. Dirt exploded five yards in front of us.

I said, �Where were you aiming?�

�At his head,� she replied.

�Let�s move closer and get this hump out of the way.�

At 20 or 25 yards�with both bulls looking at us, one lying down chewing cud and another grazing�Michele let loose, blowing his jaw off. The bull jumped up and ran out of sight in a patch of timber.

I was at a loss. I had to get moving, but tracking a freshly wounded bull was stupid. I told her we would wait for 30 minutes. That isn�t long enough, but I had to get going.

We set in the horsepasture and watched the other bull graze off. Down below, it looked like most of the crew and hunters were watching the exhibition through binoculars and spotting scopes. Must have been great fun�like Elk Hunting TV.

We walked into the timber and found the bull dead on his feet about 100 yards in. I said, �We�re going to run up on him and you shoot him in the head.� I ran up, put my hand on his hip bone like a domestic cow and pushed him over. She shot him.

Although I had work to do, I wanted to know what had happened. I told Michele to get some of the crew and a couple mules, and I would skin him, but not gut him. The crew had time to gut, quarter and pack the bull.


Skinning showed something odd. In addition to one shot to the brain and one shot through the jaw, the hide had 14 bullet holes in it. No gut shots were found. Most of the bullets entered and a few had exited.

While I have never been fond of the 7-08 for elk hunting, this situation was its worst demonstration. It is possible that in this case, the Browning BLR had too short of a barrel to get the optimum velocity from the 7-08. I had been concerned that Michele�s marksmanship was suspect, but the bullet holes proved she had done her job.

The 7-08s track record on bull elk isn�t good.

If an elk hunter want an elk rifle in 7mm, then get a full-powered model, like a 280 Remington, 284 Winchester, or 7mm Magnum of whatever flavor suits your pistol. You may also want a rifle with a 22 to 24 inch barrel, to exploit their velocity.

I�ve got to get going."

Link:

http://montanaelkhunting.blogspot.com/2009/07/7-08-elk-rifle-wannabe.html�

I agree. If there were holes in the hide and some exited, it wasnt the cartridge/barrel's fault.

There is somuch that just dont ad up. But I had better get rid of my 7mm-08

I noticed on his blog that this guy lives about 20 miles from my home town and I guess "guides" back in the Bob Marshall Wilderness where my family makes pack trips for elk also. That herd of elk gets soo much pressure from countless outfitters and their clients plus all the wolves that have moved in and god knows how many private party hunters that go back there. I highly doubt that those two bulls stood there while she shot almost a whole box of ammo.

It looks like I can keep the 7mm08 it has a 22" barrel instead of 20". That is why it got those two elk one shot each. Wow 100 feet per second who du thunk it??

Mmmm.....

Another "iron clad elk" story......

Methinks you are on to something here.

Hillbilly: Elk are large critters....and don't always react to hits like a deer might....and I have seen them appear unconcerned from a hit that made them dead on their feet....for a few seconds anyway....

But the picture of an 80 yard bull taking 14 solid chest hits from a 7/08 without expiring,where the shots got into the chest....gives me pause....and goes contrary to what I've seen with comparable loadings..who knows?

They must be full of stop leak. grin

I think that sometimes an elk will go into shock with the 1st shot and is unable to react to the later ones. I once shot a bull 4 times in the chest with a 270. He just stood there for an abnormally long time. The lungs were literally jello and the far shoulder was broken. Every shot killed him, but his nervous system just didn't let him react.

Stories from some crazy [bleep] used to start and end at the end of the bar or at some gun counter.. Now they live forever on the 'net.

Yay us.

VERY well said!

The story teller is full of something.

It's a good thing that Alaska's moose are smaller than the Montana raghorn related in this story, or I'd have had some troubles. Either that or the two grown bulls I've killed with mine, one at a pretty good distance, thought I was shooting a 270, a rifle which has a pretty good record on elk I understand. And my only 7mm-08 for many years was a 20" barreled Model Seven.

14 7mm holes in the hide? REALLY? And the bull was "dead on his feet". No significant damage to the lungs in 14 rounds, but one shot "blows his jaw off", and THEN he runs? And stays in one spot for 30 minutes? Standing. With 14 holes in his lungs?

REALLY?

I think I'd like calling him a liar to his face.... FWIW, Dutch.

A bull elk that's not only iron-clad but deaf....

I did see one Rosevelt cow elk go back to feeding after she was shot twice, in the ribs, by my buddy, at around 100 yards, with a 308 Win. and 150gr. factory Core Lokts, but on the third shot, she got nervous and started to run toward us. I then shot her in the head with a 25-06 at about 20 yards. However, I simply don't beliwve the 14 shots to the chest story.....

Rubbing my eyes and forehead here....

Back in high school, a kid I was hunting with had a 30 carbine. We jumped a deer and I lung shot it with a .32 Win Spec. Then he cut loose with the carbine. He emptied a 16 shot mag on her as she ran and literally hit her with every one (we counted the holes). Most were in the hind quarters, however, and only penetrated a few inches. The deer was a mess. She died, but it was from my lung shot. He got to tag her, btw. Dad and I didn't want to deal with that mess.

He ran up to the elk from a 100 yard and pushed him over??? Interesting technique.

Nah, he had to have been on PCP.

BCSteve;
I hope you are getting the milder weather that we are here in the Okanagan - I've had enough already of the cold and white stuff.

Anyway, pursuant to your quote, I'm thinking that perhaps this chap was originally from the Midwest where the time honored tradition of "cow tipping" is practiced?

I however admit here and now that from a lot of personal experience cowboying on weekends for a local rancher, whenever we've tried tipping BC range cattle it's always ended poorly for me.

Based upon those less than favorable memories, I believe I shall forego the tipping of the bull elk and leave the method for those more fearless than I!

Have a good weekend BCSteve.

Regards,
Dwayne

He's the type of "guide" lots of forum members base their "elk rifle" opinions off of..

Running the numbers on a ballistics program shows a 7mm Win Mag shooting a 140 gr bullet at 250 yards is about equal to a 7mm-08 shooting the same bullet at 100 yards.

So would that mean that the 7mmMag is too small too, or would I need to keep shots under 100 yards with it?

Sometimes one just can't let facts get in the way of a good tale.

Does that guy think anybody is dumb enough to believe that story? Even if it were true (and it's not) he shouldn't have the nerve to retell it for fear of being called out for BS.

That is a lot of holes to put into an animal. I wonder how blackpowder or archery hunters manage success?

How does this guy then have the nerve to recommend the .280 Rem? If the 7mm-08 is useless on Elk then it would seem to me you'd have to step up a little higher on the ladder than .280.

If the elk was truly unconcerned at 80 yds. why didn't ya just walk up and shoot real close like to begin with. I've killed acouple elk with my .260 Remington which is a smaller .308 based cartridge and lighter bullets. One shot put both down.

Were ya using varmint bullets ?

This is the same guy that also calls the 308win the "highpowered Isuzu" IIRC. But, in similar fashion to insinuations cited about, hails the 30-06 as vastly superior to the 308 in every way and somehow concludes that the 06 is just miles ahead of the same bullet trailing by maybe 100 fps.

You've heard the expression after a hard to believe story "You can't make this stuff up?"
Well, this story proves that old adage WRONG. You obviously CAN make this stuff up.

That's funny......

Jeff O:

I'm on the same track as you. It's BS.

I would like to know more about the source of this story. I think it's pure fantasy fiction.

KC

What I didn't like about this story is the ending, something with a little more flare at the end like,
" And then beast rose from the dead, sprouted wings and flew down the valley into a neighboring village, setting it ablaze with its firey breath."
The one the author used was so anticlimactic, I mean really, he just died? After eating all that lead? Not the way I would have wrote it.

14 shots? I've never seen an elk that would stand around that long and they had two?

(Where did I put my boots...?)

KC, the link I posted didn't show up as a "hot" link, but at a minimum you can paste it into your browsers "go" window... should take you right to the source.

I kept waiting for the punchline- that the whole thing was bullchit- but it never came!

I'm thinking he's either a complete wack job story teller or has a powerful dry sense of humor.

I saw a very nice Model 7 in 7-08 with a laminated stock for only $450 yesterday. Glad I didn't buy it now.

John

There's enough Bullchitt in that story to fertilize the entire state of Montana... Twice!

Scared elk and any elk hit poorly can be darned hard to put down with pretty much anything. The 7-08, or anything remotely like it would have been perfectly suited to that fantasy shooting scenario.

The author should stick to selling used cars to old ladies.......

JeffO:

Well you gotta admit that he got us all excited calling BS, full of it, etc. I like mitchellmointain's ending better than the original.

KC

KC,
Must have blocked the "can't feel the bullet nerve" on the first shot. Sure glad he found it dead on it's feet. My problem is how did the Elk walk from the pasture to the tree line and continue to stand?
Too bad no one had a camera.
Just saw a news report regarding the border incident and recent shooting. Seems as though bean bags were ordered used until our agents run out and then deadly force can be employed. They were being shot at and the illegals were not using bean bags. Is anyone surprised?

Dave

Somehow, just calling BS is an order of magnitude weaker than what should be done. By the time I got to the end, I was expecting to find that the bull elk s**t gold, too.

I personally don't believe that story like it was written: Now what was that girl shooting out of that 7mm-08 paper clips?

Also was she even hitting the elk period with her shots? I see nothing that would cause a 140, 150, 162 or 175 grain .284 diameter bullet from killing any elk if placed into the vitals at 2000fps or upward velocity, especially under 150 yards.

My guess is that rifle she was shooting was not zeroed in and she missed the whole frigging animal several times. I man I hunted with back in 2000 did the same thing with a .300 mag Browning Bar........His excitement had him looking over the scope!

The guide tricked her and substituted her BLR with a replica airsoft gun...

Montana elk are tamer than Washington elk, is all I can say.

Well why would anyone believe such an obvious lie about the 7mm08. But I'm sure it could happen with the .270, but never with something in a 7mm.

Was there a followup story about the meth lab upstream from where the elk were drinking? damn hard to put them meth heads down Russ

No, according to the "expert" all holes were accounted for during skining.

Has anyone dug around on the author's blog spot or website for more gems and pearls of wisdom? Bet there's more doozies!

Jeff,

Quit ignoring my PM's...

Could the author be Elmer Keith come back to life?
Didn't ol' Elmer spin a similar tale of a sheep that took umpteen shots from a measly 270 and trotted off with nary a flinch?

Well, I finally logged onto the blog-spot and cruised it a little. The home-page title for the site is "BIG SKY ELK HUNTING, OUTDOORS AND SOME HUMOR."

After reading some of the author's other blogs on elk cartridges, I now believe that the 7mm-08 blog was supposed to fall under the "SOME HUMOR" heading, perhaps to catch the unsuspecting.

If so (and I suspect that's the case) then it did, starting with Jeff O, and followed by a bunch of the rest of us.

My worst elk hunting nightmare was using a 708

Kinda like looking through your old posts?

Maybe he's outfitting on the Sun River




I call...

Ratz - Got me... ... excuse me while I pull the hook out of my mouth.

Attention to detail is not the strong suit of many

Wasn't it Boddington's daughter who took an Elk with a 7mm08 ?

Bell killed "hefelumps" with a 7x57, but an Elk can't be killed by a 7mm08 ?

Yup, that makes perfect sense !

http://montanaelkhunting.blogspot.com/2009/07/308-7mm-08-243.html

I dunno, JB. There's another blog on there where he talks about the .308 and 7-08 in very similar terms to the original post I quoted.

If it's humor, it's the dryest, most tongue in cheek, and.... humorless of humor. With no punch line.

I see the punch line in this thread......

Did you read this one, John?

I think you are wrong buddy.

Not Quite An Elk Rifle

In previous posts you may have read that the 7mm Remington Magnum and the .300 Weatherby Magnum have caused more wounded elk than any other cartridges I know. Number three and four are the .308 Winchester and the 7-08 Remington. Since very few hunters take .308s or 7-08s and many take 7mm Remington Magnums and .300 Weatherbys on elk hunts, percentage wise the order would be reversed.

The .308, 7mm-08 and .243 are based on the same case, the 7.62 NATO. On paper the 7.62 nearly approximates the cartridge it was designed to replace�the 30-06 Springfield, but experience shows it to be a distant second. The .308 and 7-08 are marginal elk cartridges. The .243 is NOT an elk cartridge. Granted they will all kill an elk, but the margin of overkill is low. For more information on what it takes to kill an elk read Bullet Energy Variable.

On perfect shots all three of these will kill an elk, but they do not have the power to smash through heavy bone and portions of muscle when taking the �raking shots� Elmer Keith describes.

If a person wants an elk cartridge with the length dimensions of the .308-class of cartridges, but with the power of the 30-06-class of cartridges, use either the .284 Winchester or a 30-284. Case capacity is that of the 30-06. In fact, in most situations 30-06 loading data can be used for the 30-284. Check YOUR loading data�don�t rely on my post, please.

.308 Winchester for Elk

Using Ackley�s figures (also found here) the .308 loaded with a 180-grain spitzer boattail bullet at 2600 feet per second has the minimum amount of energy to kill an elk out to 600 yards, adequate out to 400, and preferred out to 50 yards. With a 165-grain SBT at 2700 fps those figures work to 600 yards, 350 yards and 100 yards, respectively. .308, The Highpower Isuzu

7mm-08 Remington for Elk

The 7-08 loaded with a 175-grain SBT at 2600 fps has the minimum energy for elk out to 450 yards, adequate to 200 yards, and preferred at the muzzle.

It�s important to remember what the main use of the 7�08 is�rifle silhouette competition. Not that many years ago, the .308 was the standard silhouette cartridge. Shooters found that the 7-08 was as accurate as the .308, had enough energy to topple the rams at 500 meters, but had less recoil, which caused scores to climb. Silhouette is all shot offhand. Any rifle that kicks less�and gets the job done�will win matches. 7-08, Elk Rifle Wannabe

.243 Winchester for Elk

The .243 loaded with 100-grain SBT at 2900 fps has the minimum energy to kill an elk out to 150 yards.

When David Tubb switched from the 7-08 to the .243 for silhouette competition, his scores went up, and many others followed his lead. Rifles with a faster twist than found on factory rifles can shoot heavier bullet. Although the .243 will not always topple rams at 500 meters, the loss there is made up by fewer jerks, flinches and missed shots caused by heavier recoiling cartridges.

The .243 is a good deer rifle. It is also available on most varmint versions of factory rifles. You won't find many 30-06 or 300 Magnums in varmint models.

Wrap-up

In the late 1800s Rainbow Dam was built on part of the Great Falls of the Missouri referred to by explorers Lewis and Clark. The original dam was a wooden crib filled with gravel from a nearby hillside. Men (mostly Chinese) filled the crib by wheelbarrow. The job was completed with much time and sweat. Today the job would be done with front-end loaders, scrapers and concrete.

If you go elk hunting, use the rifleman�s version of the front-end loader, scraper and concrete�an elk rifle, not something designed to replace The Elk Hunter's Rifle.

TTFN

Return to Frequently Asked Questions"

Jeff,

Yeah, and I read his stuff on the .270 Winchester, which he thinks is great for elk. Since the ballistics of the 7mm-08 and .270 are so similar, this means either (1) the 7mm-08 story is meant to be humorous, or (2) he knows zero about what he's talking about.

The blog is full of quotes about the "energy" required to kill an elk. It also appears that writing from other people is mixed in with no obvious way to tell which is which. All of the writing is less than professional, so why would you expect any humor to be well-done?

My take is that entire blog-site is a joke, whether intentional or not.

Exactly!!!!!!!

I'm going with choice number 2), and "not intentional".

I didn't think I'd get there, but I have finally grown tired of the elk cartridge debate. When you get into the "gray area", you have a little less margin of error. Premium bullets at sane distances in the right place will still do the job.

I hear you BW. Just about anything will work if you put it in the vitals!!!!!!!!And no swampy I'm not talking about azz shooting stuff

Me,too

...after all, they're just an oversized deer......not an Abrams tank.

You might want to read this blog, just for entertainment value.

Among other things the guy "quotes" P.O. Ackley (who I don't believe ever shot an elk, and possibly not a deer, in his life) about the number of foot-pounds required to kill an elk.

The numbers don't come from Ackley himself, but from a chapter in his 1962 book HANDBOOK FOR SHOOTERS AND RELOADERS. The authority quoted is Paul Von Furstenberg, who according to Ackley "has had wide experience hunting big game and is an accomplished ballistics engineer." Von Rosenberg, however, admits that he had taken "just 50 head of big game, and witnessed about 30 more being taken by hunting companions." His 50 head "include deer, elk, antelope, goat and bear."

From this Von Rosenberg does some calculating and lists minimum, adequate and preferred foot-pounds for taking various kinds of big game, though he never mentions bullet construction except for full-metal-jacket and expanding types.

Our blogger evidently has great faith in these numbers. Or maybe it's one the people who post on his blog. He doesn't really differentiate.

Keyboard commandos...

If anyone needs to ask what to use on elk, maybe they shouldn't be hunting them?

I don't understand this kind of thread. Pointless and not informative in the least.

Tossing a dart in your own mind is ok, it upsets a lot less people and doesn't provide fuel for fools.

John

John,

To a certain extent you're absolutely right, but most American deer hunters (and at least 90% of Americans have never hunted any big game except whitetails) have heard all the stories about how elk are incredibly tough, and anything less than a .338-caliber, 250-grain bullet just won't penetrate, much less kill, a big bull.

Elk are the BIGGEST fantasy hunt of many of these deer hunters, and many will be spending several years of saved income to go on the one big elk hunt of their life.

You know exactly what it takes to kill a 600-800 pound animal, because you have done it hundreds if not thousands of times. But they don't--and will have one chance to do it. They don't KNOW, as you do, what will work. So they ask questions, and fantasize, and obsess about whether they have enough gun.

JB, that was so elequently stated. Thanks for shedding some light on the subject. I guess for those of us who hunt elk every year, we forget about the luster and assume we all have the same luxuries. Maybe some of us just take some things for granted without thinking of others or walking in their shoes...

One of the best pieces of advice anybody ever gave me came from one of my mentors in the writing business. He said, "Always remember the average guy."

That's somebody a lot of writers forget, including many posters on the Campfire.

JB,
This is good advice and I fall guilty of forgetting this at times. It is easy to review and move on, whereas there are always new people coming into the sport which I guess is why, we are often accused of repeating ourselves in print, which is the opposite side of the coin.

I always remember the lessons of EK where he was considered an African Rifle expert long before he ever set foot on that soil, simply because he knew cartridges and shot enough local game to see how they worked. Extrapolation is ok on that basis, if you really do test those cartridges and loads.

Maybe we could ask the question in reverse, what cartridge would you leave at home for an elk hunt? CO DOW says a .243 with 80gn bullet is ok for elk, but I do not see it recommended here? Personally, I would take one rather than cancel the elk hunt, but I would be perfectly happy with a 7mm/08.

John

I have used the term Normal Joe many times which refers to the normal hunter,not the rifle loonies...

The average hunter I know..Does not reload/does not shoot 100 rounds a year including 22 rimfire/does not care or ask about caliber needed for this or that and a box of factory bullets last a few years/and would never consider being on an internet chat room arguing bullets/rifles and caliber needed/ but they continue to put meat in the freezer year after year..

He just goes and gets his 30-30/30-06 or whatever out of the closet and dust it off and fires a round or two before hunting season to check sight in and foul the barrel.

I am a rifle loony compared to everyone I know but far from alot of guys on here.

It's all good though as were getting out and enjoying mother nature in some way or another.

Jayco

John,

As always, whenever the question of elk cartridges comes up, we have to define our terms. Over 95% of the elk killed each year are cows, calves and young bulls. The rest are "trophy bulls" of one size or another. A lot of hunters are perfectly happy using the .243 and similar rounds on "meat elk," but those are not usually used when hunting big bulls, whether when locals draw a tag or non-residents book a guided hunt.

And the big bulls are always when somebody posts something about, "So it's the last evening of your $12,000 hunt and the bull of a lifetime is heading away at 400 yards blah blah blah...."

Personally, my wife and I have never had any trouble killing elk (or moose, or African plains game) game with a .30-06 or 7x57 or .270--even some "bulls of a lifetime."

It's been my personal experience that easterners (at least from PA) who go west for their dream elk hunt normally forego their deer rifles (which commonly is a .30-06 around here) and buy some sort of a .300 Magnum, normally the Weatherby version. Why? Because guys obsess over what to take and ask around and someone usually talks them into a .300. I know a guy who got a great deal on a Winchester 70 in .300 Win mag. Why was it sold? To buy a .300 Weatherby mag for an upcoming elk hunt! Elk rifles and cartridges really are that overscrutinized here in the east.

And if you think they overscrutinize the elk rifles....you should see what they carry to Central Canada for those HUGE whitetails.......

I have seen Elk hit 5 times with the 30-40 Krag with factory ammo/the 30-06 and 130 grain reloads/the 357 Magnum(pistol) and the 7MM Remington Mag....

They all died but not in the way we would like to see.......


Jayco

I guided a guy on a cow elk hunt last year. He couldn't find any elk and called me for help. He was shooting a .30-06 with 150 grain XMR bullets. This is a fabulous combination in my book. He was REALLY concerned that the .30-06 bullets would bounce off, since he had "read" everything on the internet about elk hunting. This was his first elk rifle experience.

He had a .300 Win Mag, but he couldn't hit anything with it. He said it had a bad barrel, but he flinches worse than anyone I have ever seen n(150 lbs. soaking wet). I took him up the next morning and had him on elk in a matter of minutes. We spent the next hour trying to catch up to the small herd and get him within 300 yards. I had my 7 year old son with us and were were in a blinding snow storm. The elk busted us at 335 yards. He kept saying, "They are too far for this gun. I sure wish I had something more powerful." I told him to sit down, hold the cross hairs 3/4" of the way up the shoulder and touch one off." The shot rang out, the big cow hunched up and started crow hopping. The shot was centered in the front shoulder. The cow hopped a few steps, tipped over and slid down the mountain in the snow. Upon recovery, the bullet exited the off side shoulder and there was blood everywhere.

He promptly went out and bought a .300 WSM, because he felt so undergunned with the .30-06. Everyone he talked to but me, told him he got "lucky" and should never hunt with a marginal round like the .30-06. This is so typical. I have asked him over and over again what the .300 would have done different than the .30-06? His reply, "It would have killed it quicker and it shoots flatter." His maximum range is 350 yards. Go figure. Flinch

That's a pretty typical notion: A cartridge that kicks harder will kill quicker.

I've killed 6-point bulls with .300 Winchester and .300 Weatherby Magnums. They worked fine, but the 6-point that went the least distance before falling was shot with a .30-06.
That's with typical heart/lung shots. Did shoot a 6x7 with a .300 WSM and he went right down--from a spine shot at the top of the shoulders. So the .300 WSM must be elk magic!

Flinch: Good post........Someday, aliens will land here.....read this stuff and study this logic,and understand fully why we failed to survive as a species....

LOL, ain't that the truth!

The first time I hunted deer in Alberta the rifles of the other guys in camp were all 7mm and .300 magnums, including a .300 Jarrett. I took a .280 Remington and would have won the award for "wimp rifle," if there'd been one.

My guide used a .25-06 for his deer hunting, and asked me about the .300 Jarrett. I explained what it was, and he said:
"What's he think we're hunting, elephants?"

Fortified by copious amounts of dark French roast, I will make the following comparison.
A first time elk hunter in North America displays the same lack of sphincter control as the first time Cape Buffalo hunter in Africa. They've read too many wild stories, had nightmares over caliber decisions and end up over gunning themselves.

Great story flinch. Thanks for sharing. That character sounds just like one of my friends. Doesn't matter how many times you tell them something they have their mind made up and that is it. One of my friends tells me he hates the 30-06 because his .270 kills them faster, go figure I guess

Have to believe a 270 with 130 NP or 150 NP would have done the same thing with a spine shot...as would the old 30'06...with 165s or 200s...

Yep I seldom see the 270 or 30-06 in Candian Whitetail camps...mostly 300-378 Wbys...338s and etc...kind of funny ain't it...the fellas who go home with their buck are using 270, 30-06 or 7 mags at the top end...

The .280 would win the "elephant rifle" award among the guys I hunt deer with If I'm strictly hunting WT, it's .25-06 for me. The .280 or 7Mag only come out if I'm in a zone where I could run into elk or WT at any given time.

OU: That is the truth! Very peculiar but among the guys that travel there to hunt,I have seen few 270's and 30/06's.....mostly the latest iteration of some OOber-Mag.....but really the 300 Win and 7RM are well represented.....

Ok aw hec new thread

I' glad I could add so much enjoyment to this forum.

Dennis - Welcome!

Have we misunderstood, misinterpreted, or just missed the point of your blog post?

Don't worry, there are people on this site who believe one shouldn't go after elk with anything smaller than a .300 magnum (they say .338 is even better), so if you are in the Elmer Keith camp, you have company here. Just interested in finding out how we should have read the blog post.

Please feel free to give your side of the story. Was it humor that we missed? Was it fact and if so why do you think that Elk soaked up so much lead before expiring?

I have killed elk with a .264 Winnie, .30-'06, .300 Win. Mag., .300 Weatherby, .338 Win. Mag., and a .375 Ultra. Didn't notice that any of them died any quicker or where any "deader" no matter what the caliber.

All animals need blood and oxygen to survive. Interrupt the flow, and down they go.

The funniest story in this vein was about 15 years back, one of my farm hands came in, asking if he could use the "farm gun" to go hunting. It was, IIRC, a Mosberg 12 ga. Kid fresh out of college, trying to get his meat for the winter. Sure, kid, go ahead.

So, the kid buys a box of slugs, drives to the trail head morning of opening day, and finds himself going up the trail behind a group on horseback, outfitted to pack in for a bunch of miles and a bunch of days.

15 minutes later, the kid shoots a 5 point, almost in self defense, as it came running down the trail, spooked by the horse-back group. One 12 ga. slug in the chest (facing shot) and the kid was home by 2 pm.

Of course, no one told him a 30-06 didn't shoot flat enough.... LOL! Dutch.

Why don't you call BS over on Montana Elk Hunting? I don't see the point here ...

It must be that extra 50 fps velocity, but my 7x57 with 160's at 2750 fps drops elk, kudu, gemsbuck, etc with only one shot. The idiot even mentions how much better a .280 would be. Big difference there! Reminds me of a buddy who hunted whitetails with a .300 Wby and was always talking how a .30-06 wouldn't kill whitetails while the .300 would flatten them at 600 yards. He couldn't understand that a 200 yard .30-06 and a .300 at 325 were the same thing. No cure for ignorance unfortunately. I honestly don't believe you could shoot all four legs off, and put the other ten in the guts and have the elk ignore you like that, just another BS story.