Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats TOP GUNSMITHS in CANADA

What a great idea!

I've heard of a few over the years, but I'd like to know who you think qualifies in the TOP 5.

Bill Leeper comes to mind.

Who else?

Martin Hagn and Ralf Martini

Two shops in BC, Weber and Markin, and as mentioned Martini and Hagn are as good as anybody in the world at producing high-end Custom Gun Guild type of rifles.

Dennis Sorensen is supposed to be very good.

Bill Leeper is a friend of mine, and is my first go-to choice for rifle making, but he is also back-logged to the point of not taking in any more work at this time. Worth the wait however. He has built walnut stocked, controlled-feed rifles for me with sporter weight barrels that shoot 0.3 MOA at 100 and 200 yards.

Prairie Gun Works in Winnipeg makes their own actions and can make some screaming accurate rifles, but I have heard they presently have a contract with the Defence Dept. and are taking in only limited work. Not sure on that however.

There are another couple of shops in western Canada that are good at screwing a barrel into a M700 action, half-ass bedding it in a a synthetic stock and selling it for relatively high dollars as a "custom". They shoot well enough to fool a lot of people. I would prefer not to say the names on the board, if you are serious about building a rifle PM me and I'll spill the beans.

If I was starting from scratch I believe I would contact Dennis Sorensen on Vancouver Island. He is taking on work and has been producing high quality work for a long time.

Several others of course but I have no personal experience with them.

I am not impressed by Sorenson, having met him and seen his work. Chris Weber is/was the finest stockmaker in Canada, but, he is very slow, hard to contact and is supposedly back in Germany working; his partner Steve is good, went to school with my youngest brother and is an artist. I do not think his work quite up to that of top US guys like Jerry Fisher, Echols or Goudy, based on what I have seen, to date.

I would not own a Ross Spagrud rifle, based on experiences of a chap I sold a tarted-up P-64 H&H action to; the rifle he built was, IMHO, pretty pathetic,so, Prairie Gunworks is not high on my list.

Martini & Hagn are about our only carriage trade 'smiths, I like their singleshots and may buy one in a couple of years; I don't care for their bolt rifles and my Dakota 76 from the late '80s has workmanship every bit as nice as the bolt rifles i have seen from their shop. I think that you pay a lot for Hagn's name, in all honesty.

The other shop that comes to mind is Corlane and they do charge far too much for what they offer, yet, a number of very good shooters I know use and enjoy their rifles, each to his own...........

Bill Leeper is the man, I only wish that he was younger and could be cloned, he KNOWS how to build a hunting rifle!

Dewey, we think alike!

I didn't know Weber was back in Germany. I have seen, and drooled, over his stock work. Totally out of my price range anyway.

That's a shame about Sorensen, I had heard good things. The list of smiths in Canada is shorter than I thought.

The Hagn single shot is also at the top of my wish list. I have heard it described by someone who knows as the best that can be produced by old-world methods, while the Dakota may be the best that mass-production can provide. I have compared the two and the Dakota did not fare well in the comparison.

Leeper is definitely the go-to guy in my mind, but as I mentioned is so back-logged that he is unfortunately unavailable for the time being. A little while back I had the latest sheep rifle built, instead of having Leeper build it I sent the action to Gaillard for truing and barrel installation, then the barreled action to BRNO284 for action lightening and stock work. It will be in my hands literally any day now, will keep you posted on my thoughts.

Kutenay , you had me worried for a while when you mentioned Martini & Hagn, but you managed to bash them also.Hmmmm.
In Canada with the current political attitude I think gunsmiths tend to be more reserved when it comes to publicity.
We have gunsmiths like Vic Swindlehurst.There are some making high quality barrels ,Ron Smith comes to mind.Lot's of good people out there.
You also have to remember to do this job you have to
have a sense of humor.

I did NOT bash anyone and I have 40+ years of experience with custom rifles to base my opinions on. The first Smith barrel I ever shot was in 1990 and it was crap, some of the subsequent ones were excellent. Sorry, pal, but your comments strike me as being an attempt to enter a discussion by denigrating the opinion of someone else, rather than by gaining experience for yourself.

If, you are a gunsmith, as you imply, then why not tell us who you are and let your work speak for you. I bought my first custom rifle, an Al Biesen .270, in 1968 at age 22; I only offer opinions on rifles I have actually owned or shot and those of my partners. Hagn, not Hagan, is a superb gunmaker, but, I have seen and shot a number of his boltguns that were less than spectacular, especially for the cost. Stating this is not bashing, it is simply my experience.

There are NOT many "top" gunsmiths in Canada, in fact, there are almost none compared to the USA, where there are dozens of top gun makers. I have found that every one of the gunsmiths in this country that I have contacted was quite eager to do work for me, including Weber, Martini, Uno, Smith, McPhee, Corlane, Prairie, Bevan King and Ted Gaillard as well as Carey Stricker, Bill Leeper and Jim Dugan. I have not found anyone who wanted to avoid publicity or lose the opportunity to build a rifle for a serious gunnut, in fact, Weber was after me for some years to have him do a pair of rifles on some actions I had and to let Steve re-build my Mod. 71.

However, you may know people I don't and perhaps you would be kind enough to share your knowledge and list the smiths you consider "top" with contact info; this would help all of us and be a great boon to everyone. Thanks in advance.

I didn't see where he bashed anyone, just offered an honest opinion. I can't disagree with anything he said. Can you add your experience with these or other Canadian riflemakers that would differ from this?

And it's "Hagn" , not "Hagan".

I haven't met Kutenay personally, but can say from his postings he's as straight a shooter as they come, and has the real experience to back it up. He didn't bash anyone, simply stated his experience.

I've also seen the works of some of the highly touted smiths that simply didn't measure up, in fact we have one such shop in Anchorage.

The selection of Canadian gun makers just isn�t that good. I concur heartily with Dewey on his assessment of Martini and Hagn. Some of their stuff is stunning, while some leave something to be desired. Prairie Gun works stuff leaves me cold. And so do their ethics. Life is just too short to deal with people like that, and I won�t.

Corlane are pretty good at assembling rifles. They turn them out pretty quick and their rifles are pretty serviceable. I�ve had two rifles built by them and unless things improve there, I won�t have them build any others. Bill Leeper has to be the best gunsmith in this country. He built me the best rifle I have ever owned and will build me others. He is busy though and, as has been pointed out, is not taking any new work.

My next rifle will be built south of the border. In fact, I�ve started collecting components in Millville Utah�������

Chuck

Kutenay I respect your knowledge and opinions because they come from experiance. I know some of the people you mentioned , one is a friend.My first reaction was that this was turning into one of those negative internet pile on's we all hate.
It was not my intention to insult anyone and I apologize If I did.I was not trying to poke the bear with a stick.

Now back to guns .
Glenn

For target rifles,Mick Mcphee is building good barrels, PWG has a good reputation as does Keith Cunnigham.
But for custom hunting rifles Chris Webber .
Geroge Pohl and Eddy Vanatsan (SP) used to do VERY fine work, but I don't know what happened to Ed.
Mr. Pohl drops into Elwood Epps sometimes wjhen they are stuck, according to Wes ( one of the proprieters) but he is packing an oxygen tank these days instead of a micrometer!

Ron Smith is getting up there also, but he is working woith his son, who built one of my barrels.
Things carry on.

Cat

I think there is certainly a difference between a "Gunsmith" and a fella that can screw a tube on straight.

The art of "Gunsmithing" is all but lost in Canada, as there are very few that can build and fit stocks from scratch, make cartidges feed flawlessly, build and fit actions and other small parts, as well as the other finicky work involved with making a rifle into a finely crafted work of art.

Martini and Hagn are likely the best, and Bill Leeper gets great reviews (certainly a favorite of the "name droppers") but I have not seen anything he's built that was extrordinarily special in the barrel or stockwork dept. Certainly nothing that warranted a few years wait over the others. I hear he is very talented though, and able to make things feed slick and work well (triggers), certainly foreign to many "smiths", and is an excellent benchrest shooter.

As far as "Pipe Fitting" - making a great tube, squaring up an action, and twisting on a tube with a good chamber, I have have great success in using Ted Gaillard, and Rembo (on this site) has the skills to twist a tube on with precision as well.

As far as glass stockwork goes, nobody in Canada has put one together that impressess me greatly (100% of the time). Brno284 is the best bet. There are some capable folk, but the small details often get missed, but most customers just grin and walk away happy. Not me..... warranty work is almost a given! Not a super hard thing to do, simply the small attention to detail and pride in your work. Certainly not rocket science, but unfortunately it seems to be for some.

As far as the other one that Kutenay and Chuck mentioned......they have the best warranty in the business, and belive me, if you are going to use them, you'll need it. In my experience (I'm a slow learner), they are batting about 1:10 in their success ratio for projects I've seen them do that actually make it without a few trips back for fixin'. I swear they don't even read the detailed written instructions you send them!!!!!! Saw 2 bolt knobs they milled out (Rem 700 TI style) that I swore I could have done better with a case of beer and a cordless drill... and when I asked over the phone how they looked the reply "AWESOME"!!!!! That speaks volumes for their work, enough said!!!!!

So, I personally haven't found any "ONE" person that does it all, and as a result end up shipping a rifle all over Canada to get the desired finished product. This has proved to be super successful, and I will continue to do so.

In my experience, beware the "Jack of all trades", as they typically are the "Masters of None"!!!!!

280_ACKLEY

Stonewall, no problem here as I am not the sort of guy who posts here or on the other two forums I participate in to harass or insult anyone and I am not upset with your honest opinions. I will be 59 in about two weeks and am long past the time of life when I "need" to denigrate others, even indirectly, in order to bolster my own self esteem. So, keep up your posts, bud, we ALL have something to learn from each other.

I admit to being a bit too blunt, at times, but I am refering to the gunsmiths mentioned from the perspective of being "top" rather than just competent smiths. Bill Leeper ( dare I drop his name?) has impressed me very much, however, he would be the very first to publicly refute any suggestion that he is a "top" smith; he is a highly intelligent, witty, knowledgable gunsmith/shooter whose skill at his craft is far greater than his humility will allow him to mention. He is not a worldclass gunmaker, but, he can build a serious hunting rifle that does what you need it to do and his wry humour just cracks me up.

I have currently got 33 centerfire rifles, just sold one and many of them are custom or customized. I strongly prefer very plain rifles to the fancy customs that I lusted after when younger as I backpack hunt and hate beating the crap out of a gorgeous wood stock, BUT, I must have absolute perfection in function and therein lies the rub, as we all know.

Overall, I agree with .280 on the way to get a rifle together, I have met Tim and Rod of Corlane and like them, but, I can do my own bedding and just get them to paint for me...or use spray paint. There are a couple of other guys who are good, competent smiths, but, the actual market for "top" gunsmithing here in Canada is tiny and it is very difficult to make a decent wage at gunbuilding.

I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who frequently call me about rifles and we all bemoan the fact that the type of gunsmith quite common in the USA just doesn't exist here in Canada....and, in view of contemporary social trends, that is not likely to change. If, I were younger and more of a gung-ho trophy hunter like .280 or my good friend Chuck or RickF, whom I hope to meet in person, I would damned well take out a loan and buy an Echol's Legend in .338 Win. As it is, I can find the people here at home to do what I cannot do and can fit my stocks myself, well enough to usually shoot m.o.a.; this is about all you can expect from we old farts.

Much of our opinion(s) on this topic also stems from our personal requirements for a rifle and that is going to make our individual desires differ markedly. I want a light, crf, medium bore rifle with flawless function and reasonable accuracy that will take hard use without problem. Someone else may need much greater accuracy, gorgeous wood, engraving or perhaps just a rifle that they can brag about. It's all part of the game, whether your thunderstick is a full house Paul Dressel fullstocked carbine that costs more than many new cars, or, a light mountain rifle built by a number of individual craftsmen that you coordinate yourself. Me, I used to want them all !!!!!

Bill Leeper has a touch of magic when it comes to working metal.He truly can turn the sow's ear into a silk purse.He has done that a three times for me.A fourth,a 8x57 is with him now.

I've never seen Leeper's work but have heard it is top notch.

Rocky Mountain Rifles (aka Corlane Sports) make some beauty lightweight rifles. I've dealt with them on a scope deal and was quite impressed.

I was surprised at the poor review of PGW and their rifles. Actually shocked is more to the point, plus the comment about their "ethics". Please explain. I've known Steve and Ross for a while now and have not seen anything that struck me as less that exemplary in the customer service department. Please kutenay, enlighten us. If there's a reason we shouldn't be dealing with them, I for one would like to know it.

Rick Timmins Alberta Tactical Rifle is a good friend of mine and does very nice work. His rifles tend to lean more to the long range shooting end, but are very fine examples nontheless. Rick is very demandnign of his rifles and refuses to settle. A quality I quite like.

I did NOT make any comment concerning the ethics of PGW, so, lets be very clear on that from the outset. I also only comment on what I have actually seen and the treatment I have received as I do not believe in basing my opinions on hearsay. There are those who choose to attempt to denigrate others in order to appear to be very knowledgable about a given issue, I am not one of them.

I have been in contact with PGW on three occasions and I found them to be rather abrupt and not overly courteous on the phone. This is not my concept of how a business should treat potential customers and I decided not to spend my money with them as a result of this behaviour.

Now, the actual gunsmithing concerned was done by them on a P-64 Mod. 70 that was one of three that Joe Dlask surface ground and trued for me about 15 years ago; Joe's work was meticulous and compared favourably with the top metalsmiths in the USA, whose work I have examined on rifles belonging to buddies afflicted with gunaholism as I am. I sold this to a chap I know, whose name I will not mention as he is not conversant with this thread and he sent it to Spagrud with very precise instructions as to the rifle he wanted built. He is a medical professional used to working with great precision and has many other custom rifles, so, he knows what should result.

The rifle came back, after several thousand dollars expenditure, with various accoutrements that he had specifically stated he did not want, the stock design was not what he requested and the dimensions were wrong. When he removed the metal from the wood, the inletting was terrible and he could not get the rifle to shoot. He sent it back and it still would not function as a top custom rifle should, so, he got another gunsmith to re-work it. This is not the only case like this that people I know and trust have had happen to them, so, my opinion of Spagrud is not very high.

I don't know you and have no idea of your actual experience with custom rifles, so, I can only suggest that you go to one of the big custom rifle shows in the USA and examine the work of some of the masters there, if you have not already done so. This will give you an idea of what can be and is being done and also what should be done for a customer's hard earned bucks. Third rate work and a snotty attitude is NOT acceptable to me and I will not accept this from anyone with whom I deal......and neither should anyone else, IMHO.

Again, the comments concerning ethics were made by Chuck, not me, so it is his prerogative to reply or not. I simply do not consider Ross Spagrud to be a "top" gunsmith, based on what I have seen and I would not have him do any work for me. I do not care which gunsmith anyone chooses, I simply offered my take on the current situation in Canada as I have experienced it; quite honestly, the single finest stockmaker I have EVER seen was the late Russel Fletcher of Nelson, B.C. whom I knew as a young man and he was better than Beisen or Fisher, even to my young, inexperienced eyes circa 1967.

PGW ethics are not a big secret. I know individuals that have fed Spagrud for several months recieving nothing, and I mean nothing, in return. So as I see it, it's more than an ethics issue, they're thieves. Then there are cases of missing parts on completed rifles etc. Plus, Spagrud is a first class dick to deal with.

Chuck

Nobby Uno on Vancouver Island (Comox) has built me guns that were as perfect as can be done. I love his work, plus he's a gentleman to dealk with. He get's my vote.

After reading all the posts carefully I do agree with most every thing said. I remember one Wichita rifle at Guncraft, a lh .223.The metal work was amazing -you did have a extremely hard time to see the joint between action and barrel.The wood was blond with beautiful dark figure in butt and perfect layout.But it was the attention to detail -I looked at the borderless checkering for two hours and didn't find a fault.I think Bishop at the time did the stocks.
It made a far greater impression on me than the three rifles I saw at Expo 67 in the Austrian pavilion .
I know many of the people here have projects that they consider a sucess-show these and what you would do now if different. How did you do it and why?
We have many new products even in Canada in the last ten years.Some actually work.


Glenn