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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Just a geology problem, fellas, nothing to see here.... The United States Department of Energy estimates that ANWR oil production between 2018 and 2030 would reduce the cumulative net expenditures on imported crude oil and liquid fuels by an estimated $135 to $327 billion (2006 dollars), reducing the foreign trade deficit. What's $300 billion dollars kept in the U.S. instead of the Middle East? We're all just one big happy global family, right? USGS estimates 10.4 BILLLION bbls in ANWR. That's more than the U.S. consumes in an entire year, yet the "pinkos" claim there is nothing we can do..... Reminds me of the scene from Goodfellas.... "We had a problem. We tried to do everything we could. You know what I mean.....we couldn't do nothing about it."Geology, fellas.... fahghetaboutit....
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
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"Why don't the infamous 'oil companies' charge $10 a gallon for gas? Heck, why don't they charge $100 a gallon?" Anyone? Anyone? Nobody huh?
NRA Lifer "It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain "Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
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There's much more to the price of crude and fuel than supply and demand, as has been pointed out numerous times. What has been pointed out is various things that affect supply and demand. Where has anyone pointed to anything related to the price of crude (or refined gasoline) in the United States that is outside of supply or demand?
NRA Lifer "It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain "Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
It may not lower it but it sure won't raise the price.
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Posts: 29,688 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,688 Likes: 5 |
Might not lower it, but it sure as heck ain't gonna cause it to rise...
PS- great minds think alike...
Last edited by efw; 05/18/11. Reason: PS
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
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"Why don't the infamous 'oil companies' charge $10 a gallon for gas? Heck, why don't they charge $100 a gallon?" Anyone? Anyone? Nobody huh? Scoop Jackson, a very senior Senator, said that increasing the cost of gas would not cause anyone to use less gas. There are not just ninnies on 24HCF, they are running governments. Don't assume that anyone can fathom useful underlying principals that predict the future. What does it all mean? Most people are stupid. The few smart people have mostly wrong things in their head. Don't expect much, and you won't be disappointed.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,295 Likes: 17 |
There's much more to the price of crude and fuel than supply and demand, as has been pointed out numerous times. What has been pointed out is various things that affect supply and demand. Where has anyone pointed to anything related to the price of crude (or refined gasoline) in the United States that is outside of supply or demand? The falling US $$ is a major contributor to the increased price of crude. It has been stated many times here. Pure speculation, or flat out guessing that demand will increase is not a true supply and demand issue. Today we have 2.7% (app 3m/bbls) more crude than we had at this time last year. The price of crude on May 18, 2010 was in the neighborhood of $69. So let's see, more supply today, $30/bbl higher. Supply and demand is not a major contributor anymore.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,510
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
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There's much more to the price of crude and fuel than supply and demand, as has been pointed out numerous times. What has been pointed out is various things that affect supply and demand. Where has anyone pointed to anything related to the price of crude (or refined gasoline) in the United States that is outside of supply or demand? The falling US $$ is a major contributor to the increased price of crude. It has been stated many times here. Pure speculation, or flat out guessing that demand will increase is not a true supply and demand issue. Today we have 2.7% (app 3m/bbls) more crude than we had at this time last year. The price of crude on May 18, 2010 was in the neighborhood of $69. So let's see, more supply today, $30/bbl higher. Supply and demand is not a major contributor anymore. Speculation IS 'demand'. (The devaluation of the dollar is also an affect of supply, albeit the supply of dollars.) The point is, the demand for crude (which obviously is not just for refined petroleum products), the biggest cost of goods in the manufacture of gasoline, does in fact affect the price. Refined gasoline is a commodity so it has it's own market but it is obviously not disconnected from the raw goods (crude). Yes there are a lot of other things that play into the equation but to attempt to minimize what positive effect increasing crude production will have is simply ... falling for it. If demand is constant, then again, why don't oil companies charge $10/gallon for gas? If we can agree there is some portion of gasoline use that is NOT discretionary (as commonly defined) then there is some intersection on the supply/demand curve that would have them maximizing profits far above what they currently make. Or... is there? Surely those evil oil companies aren't missing an opportunity? My BIL is the president and CEO of a fair sized retail chain/distributorship on the west cost. My brother retired from BP/Amoco, another brother did a stint for Sigmor, my first job out of college was working with BP in their retail distribution unit. I just mention that to say I saw/see nothing evil about the practices of the 'evil oil companies' when it comes to pump pricing and I saw first hand, the free market at work when it came to that pump pricing. There are are two things the American public can do to affect pump pricing. Increase supply and/or reduce demand. The rest is theatre. disclaimer: I do concur that speculators should be required to have the finanicial means to execute their contracts as otherwise (as currently operating) it is an unnatural anomaly on the supply/demand equation.
NRA Lifer "It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain "Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,424 Likes: 7 |
Picture of overdamped, underdamped, and critically damped responses. Speculators or futures buyers speed up the response of the market. I can see a criticism of scalpers, when there is finite supply tickets, but long term markets, the speculators provide some value for the little profits they take.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,295 Likes: 17 |
Today we have 2.7% (app 3m/bbls) more crude than we had at this time last year. The price of crude on May 18, 2010 was in the neighborhood of $69. So let's see, more supply today, $30/bbl higher. What about this fact of life?
Last edited by JGRaider; 05/18/11.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 19,722 |
"Why don't the infamous 'oil companies' charge $10 a gallon for gas? Heck, why don't they charge $100 a gallon?" Anyone? Anyone? Nobody huh? Scoop Jackson, a very senior Senator, said that increasing the cost of gas would not cause anyone to use less gas. There are not just ninnies on 24HCF, they are running governments. Don't assume that anyone can fathom useful underlying principals that predict the future. What does it all mean? Most people are stupid. The few smart people have mostly wrong things in their head. Don't expect much, and you won't be disappointed. Now that's funny!
NRA Lifetime Member
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
The falling US $$ is a major contributor to the increased price of crude. It has been stated many times here. Pure speculation, or flat out guessing that demand will increase is not a true supply and demand issue. Today we have 2.7% (app 3m/bbls) more crude than we had at this time last year. The price of crude on May 18, 2010 was in the neighborhood of $69. So let's see, more supply today, $30/bbl higher. Supply and demand is not a major contributor anymore.
OPEC still bases their crude pricing/exchange on the Dollar, I believe. Crude prices versus Dollar to Euro valuation: Dec 2008 (crude) $35.99 (Euro) �.78 Jun 2009 $67.68 �.70 Dec 2009 $71.75 �.66 Jun 2010 $75.09 �.82 Dec 2010 $89.43 �.76 May 2011 $117.12 �.67 As one can see their is no correlation between crude prices and the value of the dollar, at least in comparison to the Euro. In fact the dollar was stronger in relation to the Euro in Jun 2010 than it was in Dec 2008 and yet crude prices had more than doubled. In fact the dollar was nearly the same against the British pound from the same time frame, Dec 2008 to Jun 2010. GBP .67 to GBP .68 and yet this was the time of the largest increase in crude prices. Looking at another bellwether currency, the change in the Yen/Dollar rate between Dec 2008 and Jun 2010 only experienced a change of less than 3%, .93JPY to .91JPY. Chinese Yuan? CY6.88 to CY6.83, again little change. I just don't see the "falling dollar" as showing any effect on the price of crude. If we look back historically, the last time the dollar suffered a dramatic devaluation was in the mid 80's, specifically between 1985 and 1988. During that time the price of oil DROPPED from $26.92 to $14.87 for the same time period.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,295 Likes: 17 |
Today we have 2.7% (app 3m/bbls) more crude than we had at this time last year. The price of crude on May 18, 2010 was in the neighborhood of $69. So let's see, more supply today, $30/bbl higher. Foxbat what's your take on this? Visa/MC say US demand is down .9% over the past 2 weeks. That's interesting Foxbat. I do know that I watch Bloomberg Energy News daily. Many, many times when the price of crude rises the traders blame it on the falling US $$. You can read for yourself there.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
Today we have 2.7% (app 3m/bbls) more crude than we had at this time last year. The price of crude on May 18, 2010 was in the neighborhood of $69. So let's see, more supply today, $30/bbl higher. Foxbat what's your take on this? Visa/MC say US demand is down .9% over the past 2 weeks. That's interesting Foxbat. I do know that I watch Bloomberg Energy News daily. Many, many times when the price of crude rises the traders blame it on the falling US $$. You can read for yourself there. JG, I agree it's not strictly supply/demand when it comes to oil. Speculation, political pressures, currency valuation, supply, demand, perceived/real threats to oil production/refineries, new discoveries etc., all play a part. I didn't know the answers before I went looking for them on the dollar's valuation/crude prices. Had there been a clear correlation, I would have agreed it could be a major effect, but the recent and historical trends just didn't match up. Can the value of the dollar be a contributing factor?, Sure, but I don't see it as a major factor, at least until OPEC get's it's way and get's away from the dollar, then we will see price fluctuations in direct relation to the dollar increase. Right now I think it effects speculation more than actual pricing. Look at July 2008 to Dec 2008, crude went from $135 bbl to $37 bbl in 5 months. It fell to almost a 1/4 of it's previous price in less than half a year. The dollar did increase in value during that time frame, but only a small fraction in comparison to the drop in crude price. Now what did take place during that time frame was a serious drop in demand.
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Posts: 387
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 387 |
There are not just ninnies on 24HCF, they are running governments.
Woooooooooohoooooooooooooo!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737 |
Now we can talk for days (and I�m sure we will, because people here are just incapable to sticking to the subject) about why we should drill domestically for oil.
But I would like to keep this discussion focused on domestic drilling and how it lowers the price of oil or gas at the pump. The intent is to bust the myths associated with this subject. Whoever adds more product WILL lower the price given demand and all else remaining the same. It doesn't matter if its the US or Russia, added supply lowers the price. However that is NOT the same for the price of gasoline. You have to separate the two. Oil is a world priced commodity. Gasoline is tied to the wholesale price of that product AND the cost of crude oil. For example, the price of unleaded on Monday settled at just under $3 per gallon. So, you can't compare gasoline and crude in the same way.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856 |
Man, I'm glad we had more drilling.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,040 Likes: 29 |
I don't mind paying 2.42 for a gallon of gas at all
I do mind being layed off due to the price of crude and cheap unskilled labor in Romania
fugging replaced by some gawtdamm Romanian /romulan
fugging had to deal with 5 of em every 2 weeks "training them to take our jobs"
took me bout 6-7 months to get proficient
according to our company these clowns are ready after 2-4 weeks
ya right fuggers don't even know how to work a tag line or look for clear escape routes from loads or remember simple rigging methods
teach em repetively the same things and they still don't get nothing and they just stand around like statues at every given chance
I really think without adult /American supervision some of these guys are gonna get killed and killed fast and rather gruesomely sad to say it but it will probably happen real soon
am I bitter
fugging right
so glad all the cooperate vp,s and office fuggers in Houston can keep their jobs and bonuses
hire a Romanian off a cruise ship with a off shore survival suit certificate put em on a deep water rig and presto you have a fugger working for 1/6 th of what you make and absouloutely no experience after his 2-4 week "training"
900 of us on off shore rigs got the axe world wide
half an hour before our helicopter briefing on the morning of 4 dec at the end of our 28 day rotation 4 of us americans got called in the office on the rig and told we no longer had jobs.........
pretty fugged up for sure
work your ass off for 28 days compensating for having 5 Romanian spectators/workers around you "training to do yourjob" and you are working 3-4 times harder than you normally do cause they just don't get it and a fast paced enviorment where things need to get done safe and quickly or else people get hurt and basically doing it all yourself
then a half hour before you leave at the end of your hitch you get told you don't have a job anymore 1 guy had 14 yrs the other 2 had 7 and 9 I had a little under 2
3 other americans got the axe on their crew change on thanksgiving day
everyone is leary of their crew change day coming up now for sure
transocean can kiss my fuzzy white ass
im looking for a company that is smaller and hasn't overbitten its rig to contract ratio
their are better companys out for sure in the off shore industry.
Last edited by renegade50; 12/09/14.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Man, I'm glad we had more drilling. Yeah, that Sarah was totally wrong.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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