Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Church? Where Have We Gone Wrong?

Scott;
I'm hoping this finds you well and safely off the highway for another night my friend.

The thread you've begun and the questions and comments that have been raised made for enlightening reading. I really appreciated what a lot of the posters had to say, so thank you for sharing your viewpoints.

If memory serves me correctly, I related to you the story of the lady physiotherapist that I met when I ran my left hand through the table saw?

Anyway the upshot of that experience was the revelation to me that sometimes, if I'm a true servant and I'm doing His will, I may experience things that aren't even about me - I'm just the conduit, the vessel so to speak - you know?

Could it be then, that if the Lord chooses to use us, when our family gathers on Sunday in that little church on the right as you hit the north side of Oliver, that we're there to be used as a feed conduit for others as well as be fed ourselves?

Now in no way do I mean to say that I've arrived spiritually and don't need to be fed. You've met me and realize how very human I am, so that isn't it at all.

I have also found peace - more or less - with the concept that I can't earn and will never of my own accord deserve anything from God either.

But perhaps when my wife sings as part of the worship team, or our daughters are working the nursery, the powerpoint, or manning the drums (eldest has been asked to drum now ) it can add something to the other folks' life by allowing them to better worship and commune with God that day?

There are a lot of folks searching these days, which is good. Then again, I'm certain that the places most would be comfortable trying to find God would, in all probability be an uncomfortable place for me with my jeans and cowboy boots.

However it seems to me more often lately that it isn't about my comfort. Though I seem to need frequent reminders, He loves them too and if it's His will, may just have this redneck slated as a way to reach them.

As others have put it, much more succinctly and aptly than I, the foundation for any gathering, be it a church with pews or smoky campfire, must be in the Word of God.

You know me well enough to know that my comfort level is at the campfire with the smoke in my eyes alongside you. But that doesn't always appear to be where I'm always supposed to be.

As always, you and yours are in my thoughts and prayers Scott. I remember you folks and the other prayer requests from life, including those here on the 'Fire on my morning drive in at 4:30 while I'm dodging wildlife on the back side of Skaha Lake.

Have a safe week my friend and thanks again for making me do a little healthy soul searching this evening.

Dwayne

deflave, I doubt Jesus had a button down shirt, and I believe His sandals were closer to flip-flops than to a pair of wing-tip shoes. That said, I tend to wear a snap type western shirt, newer blue jeans, a tie, and my dress western boots to church (Formal Church). Most often, I'm babysitting livestock, and enjoying God's church in the great outdoors on Sunday (critters need feed & water & care 24/7) Jesus & I have an ongoing, GREAT relationship!
Mark

Mat 9:11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and �sinners�?"
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

In this world, we'll never be fully healed. Jesus came to heal us completely in the next.

WOW! What a great bunch of responses and lot's to ponder. It surprises me just how much we all agree. Seems most if not all of us have been lead down what ever path to the same spot.

In my walk I have been taught many lessons that did not necessarily come from a pulpit. As an elder and Council member of what started as a church of around fifty and became a church of nearly 2,000 I learned a lot. Now keep in mind I know I have been called to worship in small churches. God grew that church and the leadership just tried to keep up. That church never advertised, never had a big red thermometer showing finances or growth and never planned to be what they became. It was all God. Today that church has an accredited Bible college, a ministry to help pastors wounded in God's service, and has planted about a dozen new churches. While I can see the hand of God in what happened there it is not a place I would attend today. It is more showbiz than I can handle.

When my wife and I started attending a small church in Central Oregon the pastor met with us for a get to know you kind of thing. In the discussion my wife said something that put to words exactly what was in my heart. She said she was not interested in a church that practiced any of the three Ps- Programs, Performance and Perfection. The pastor asked her to repeat that as he wanted to write it down. It was exactly hat he was feeling but had not put it into words.

We will soon begin the quest to find a place to worship. I am not concerned about what the sign says in front of the building. Denominations do not impress me. Fancy buildings do not impress me. Programs, Performance and Perfection do not impress me. God impresses me, truth impresses me, and real impresses me.

I am getting excited for the hunt. I pray there will be good things at the end of our quest. I am looking forward to being used by God.

Thank guys for your thoughts and input. I cannot remember a post going this far without insults or harsh words. You have made me proud to be a part.

With that I am taking this tire old body to bed. Fifteen and a quarter hours in a truck today had done this old guy in.

I long to see (and I think that Jesus does, too) Jesus's active followers operate corporately as they did between the Day of Pentecost and the late fourth century Anno Domini � when they numbered in the tens of thousands in Jerusalem alone at the close of the first century and had spread-out over the rest of the then-known world.

� congregating in twos and fews whenever and wherever the Holy Spirit led them together in the Name (authority) of Jesus, to do whatever He bade them do right then

� edified by the Holy Spirit through the agency and counsel of their council of local presbuteroi, episcopoi, and poimeni

� subject to the direction, guidance, and rule of no distant "authority" but only to God through the Holy Spirit and their council of local presbuteroi, episcopoi, and poimeni

� doing the works that Jesus did, as He promised that we would � healing the sick, comforting the afflicted, casting-out demons, etc




I don't expect any of that to happen on Sunday mornings in The Little Brown Church in the Wildwood or in that gleaming white building with the steeple, stained-glass windows, and gurgling organ.

Jesus probably didn't smell too great back in the day either. But I'd still like people in modern day society to take a shower before entering the fellowship hall.

I'm glad you have a good relationship with him.

Travis

Anything else you want?

What is the intent with relaxed church dress codes, coffee shops in churches, etc.? Would you see a coffee shop in a rural church in Texas? Would you see dusty boots and Wranglers at a church in downtown Seattle? Probably not. But the point is that the church is trying to become more accessible to the community around it. Is a poor person going to buy a suit just to visit a church in which all of the members dress up? Is the poor person going to visit a church in worn out jeans when everyone else is wearing a suit? Is God going to punish a church leader because they encouraged a coffee shop and relaxed dress code with intentions of bringing people to God to the glorification of God? Is that for a person to judge?

I think it's ridiculous to expect the younger generation to want to sit in the same style of worship that you old farts are used to.

That being said, I've seen some stupid stupid stupid stuff during worship services,from churches that just try way to hard.

I know what style I like, and I just happen to go to a church that has that style.

It depends on the type of judgment. The bible calls on us to make choices everyday. Those choices are, in fact, "judgments" to a degree. 1 Cor 5:11 tells to avoid somebody "who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindlier. with such a man do not even eat." (emphasis added). So, just as church critics despise hypocrisy, so does God! And in order to obey the instruction, the person has to make a judgment.

Judgments generally are not forbidden by the Bible. Many verses call on the believers to use judgment or to make a right judgment. However, men are not called to judge the world, make judgments in disputable matters, or final judgments as to another's salvation.

So with church formats--loud guitars, shorts, coffee bars, building programs--my heart tells me it's proper for people to approve or disapprove for themselves as to whether a church style is appropriate. But, I would hesitate to pronounce/teach/proclaim to others that coffee bars are from the devil and any church that has one is doomed/evil/bad.

LOL, Calvin and I were typing at the same time, and I think he said what I was trying to say--he just said it plainly!

I think we are on the same page. If the bible doesn't address the issue and the laws of the land do not address the issue then its up for a person to decide what is right for their own person and not bestow their decision on anyone else.

You 'decide' with your money.

I can get by a lot of styles of worship and types of dress as long as the Church is about Jesus and His whole Word. As soon as concessions are made to a either to attract numbers, or any other reason, I'm out of there.
As my one time Pastor said,"The Bible is a offensive book. It tells me I am a no good rotten sinner, going to Hell, and there is not a thing I can do on my own about it."
Fortunately for all of us it doesn't stop there but that is the basic understanding anyone needs to repent and turn their lives over to Jesus.
Too many churches today preach Jesus as just a friend and not Lord,IMO.

It's easier to like a buddy who blesses than a Boss Who expects.

And you don't SURRENDER to buddies , which is really what the whole deal is about.

Jesus was just too uptight when he threw the money changers out of the temple. He should have just chilled out. It's ALL good....

....and he preceded to curse a fig tree shortly thereafter because it bear no fruit.

Are you conversant in Greek, Hebrew and Aramic?

I'm not conversant in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramic and I even struggle with English.