Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Unreasonably high minimum wage ..... ?

Ok fundamental problem with your whole arguement:

Since when is it the government's job to take care of people?

Your whole position is grounded upon an incorrect presupposition: that the gov't has the Constitutional authority to take care of its citizens.

It not only doesn't have the authority to do so, it also doesn't have the ability.

Allright you two dummies, I'm going to try to explain it a lttle more simply. (Since that is obviously needed). Why does Md's pay around $10? Because that is what they have to pay to get workers. They cannot get enough competant people at min. wage. If there were no min., companies would have to pay what the market would bear. If they OFFERED too little, no one would apply. Your version of $10 a day is just more liberal lies. NO ONE would work for that unless that was sufficient.
Dumheart sounds like the typical union slug, who wants mommy to pay him for just showing up. If the company cannot make money from your work, it CANNOT PAY YOU!
The market sets the pay rate. Any time the gov't sets a price, it messes up the whole works. EVERY TIME. An artificial price cannot last, because the market ultimately overrides.
I would like to see both of you go out, start a business, and hire anyone who comes along, first come, first served, no exceptions. I also want you to pay a "livable" wage. (you still have not said what that is.) No matter what kind of quality work they do, you cannot fire them, and you have to keep paying them, even though they are not earning you enough to make a profit. It will not be long before you will be losing money, because the market will dictate that you will not have any customers, because your employees do not give them what is necessary to keep them coming back. This is why you will descriminate when hiring, because you will find that not all of the applicants can do the job that you have. That is what the wage you offer will reflect. This is what the minimum wage eliminates, discrimination by ability. You will not pay a 16yo $50/hr. to cook french fries, because the job will not earn you that much. If you can hire a young person to sweep the floor in the afternoon for $5/hr., you will give them a job, pay them for the work, and they will be earning it. If you have to pay them union wages and benefits just for sweeping, you will not hire them, because you can not afford that much.
I make what the market will pay. If it is not enough, I find something better. That is MY responsibility.
Really, really simple.

What do you think $400.00 a month rent gets? That's what it costs to share a place or just rent a room in the last three states I've lived in at today's rental costs.

Holy schitt you're kidding me ! That's not my argument AT ALL and never has been. VROOOOM, right over your head ! My position all along has been that I {taxpayer} am DAMNED sick and tired of subsidizing the underpaid employee's of Wal-Mart, Jiffy-Mart etc. because their low down, dirty, rotten greedy employers don't pay them enough to make ends meet but know damned good and well that as a taxpayer they can "pass the buck" onto me ! You want people to work for you ? Then pay them enough they can live on it. But you say you can't afford to pay 4 attendants for your gas station cuz minimum wage is too high ? Then hire one full time attendant and pay him a liveable wage or pump the gas yourself ya lazy bastard !

I asked early on and got not answer.

How is it adventageous for an employer to pay his employees less than what they're worth?

If an employee is free to go and get a job paying more, then why would you deny the employer the same right?

You are indeed suggesting that the gov't has to take care of people... you just think its because of "evil corporations". The question of the identity of the screwer isn't between big corps or untrained would-be workers... it is both of those parties and us who are being screwed by the Gov't.

Say what you will, you're seeking to justify an unjust policy of our gov't by illustrating how tough it is to get by. By implication therefore, you're saying that the gov't has the right and power to do so.

Hey why don't you just lick the sweat off'n my balls ya ignorant bastard ! At least you'd get to see what balls actually look like for once in your miserable little life.

It is you who is missing the point.

The one full time attendant's liveable wage (at least according to your definition thereof) isn't worth the cost, so he doesn't get hired.

Seriously; do you have any idea what it takes to run a business?? Have you even tried to think it through?

These evil businesses that you're criticizing are the driving force in this economy, no matter how much you seem to think it is the gov't who can set things aright.

Right now it costs too much to hire people. The minimum wage contributes to that. If we do away with it, some hiring would increase, and I guarantee you those who get a job as a result of it won't appreciate you arguing that they shouldn't have by saying that the gov't should control the prices of their labor.

I don't think consumer prices are reasonable. Min. wage should be done away with.

Yeah, I had my own business. Didn't look to make a ton of money off the sweat of somebody else so I actually did all the work myself.

So you're saying you didn't know what it took to run a business or you'd still have one.

Making money is integral to keeping a business open. That is why they operate. Making money is not inherently evil. Having other people work for you and making money from their labor isn't, either. Just because someone is successful at it doesn't mean they need the gov't to come in and tell them what they must pay people.

Show me in the Constitution where the gov't has this authority and the argument is ended. You're arguing in favor of minimum wage, so defend the actual policy and not the reason why bleeding hearts FEEL its a good idea.

Judas priest I'm saying the government SHOULD stay the [bleep] out of it and quit giving my tax dollars to the working poor ! But if they do I'll bet you'd find ONE HELLUVA LOT FEWER folks willing to take 7.25 an hour cuz they'd actually have to make ends meet on that AND COULD NOT SO THEY WOULD NO LONGER WORK FOR THAT PIDDLY ASS AMOUNT.

FWIW, I'm not a dummy and I know what's involved in owning and and operating a small business ... and a complex one at that. I was part owner, CEO and Chief Inspector of an FAA approved Aircraft Propeller Repair Station ... in ... California.

Also, I haven't made any arguements in favor of raising the minimum wage. With the one exception of lowering it for "summer" type jobs for "kids".

Uhhh,NO, I don't believe I ever said any of that Mr. know it all. I don't have the business anymore because I had an accident and couldn't do that sort of work anymore.

I want a maximum wage cap to get those greedy CEOs and Lawyers in check. Pro athletes too. And their team owners, seems there should be a cap on what profit they can turn. Can you smell the sarcasm here?

It's amazing what you'll do when you have no choice.

That goes for sellers of goods/services as well as buyers.

As a seller of labor, if you can starve or work for less than what you think you're worth you work.

If you're looking to buy labor but can't because you're offering too little, you decide whether it is worth the going rate. If it is, you hire. If it isn't, you work for yourself until you can't anymore and go out of business or just never grow.

On the same token, if you're a housing owner and have the choice between a vacant room or renting at less than what you think its worth, you rent.

The economy plays matchmaker and all of those parties get together and VIOLA! Financial transactions.

That is how it works, absent gov't meddling, which screws the whole thing up.

How is it that there are all kinds of migrant workers who travel so far to earn the crappy wages you say no one can live on? If what you say is true, that would not be the case.

You're so full of schit I can smell you from here. It's obvious this is all theory to you and you haven't the first [bleep]' clue what's really going on out there. I've seen how those migrant workers live with my own eyes and it ain'tr pretty. If you advocate that lifestyle for US citizens you are scum with a capital "s".

Either way the end is the same.

If you'd have been willing or able to learn to manage people there'd still be a business cuz it wouldn't have relied upon you.

I'm sure there are a couple of guys somewhere who are really disappointed not to be able to work for you right now.

Yeah, that was sarcasm...

You didn't answer the question. If that lifestyle is so crappy, why do people travel so far to participate?

Oh well, you're right.

Gov't price controls and taking our money with nothing to show for it must be the only answer.

I concede.

You're not meant to stay in a job like that. It's just to develop a track record, prove you have a good work ethic, gain experience, etc. Then you get promoted or look for a better job more in line with someone who's already proven those things and gained experience.

Yeah I've seen it too. I provide financing to several farmers in my area. I also assist their employees in cashing checks and maintaining financial services.

See that is what happens. A farmer wants his crop picked and offers a wage. People decide they'd like to pick crops at that wage so badly that they'll cross state and national lines to get here. Then the community hires a spanish speaking teller or three to cash those peoples' checks.

You're right. They're all getting screwed.

Where is the evil corp I can blame for this massive injustice?