Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR 45-70 BP Loads

Ranch13:
A question on compression... When I started BPCR with my 45-90, I was initially compressing powder and wad. Folks on the Shiloh forum suggested I should compress powder only with wads/cookies etc installed as the slug was seated. I took their advice and stopped compressing the wad. Thoughts seemed to be that the compressed wad would be less forgiving and not as effective. Since wads are being hit with several thousands of pounds of pressure in the cartridge during the firing process anyway, is there really any difference?

I once pulled some loads apart when I was stepping up in charge and ballooned a couple cartridges. While I did not measure anything, those compressed wads were certainly thinner and more brittle than those fresh from the package.
Your thoughs???

I seriously doubt it makes much difference on the target, but it might.
The main thing to keep in mind with this stuff, there's really no wrong way to do most of it. It boils down to whatever works for you and your rifle.
Some folks try to make this bpcr stuff something akin to the base of Einsteins theory,,, they can make it that hard if they want to but there's a ton of things I rather spend my time on.
After you shoot enough paper patch bullets, see the accuracy and recovered bullets alot of the stuff folks go on and on and on and onnnnn about is pretty meaningless.
Keep it simple and keep life happy.

I use a homemade concoction of lard and bees wax in my flinter. Is that suitable in your experience? I don't see keeping a whole whack of loaded ammo around for any length of time, and this lube seems pretty stiff.

Only way to tell is to use it. If you get alot of hard fouling and leading, or if it melts enough to contaminate the powder charge, you know it's not working.
I'ld add a dab of jojoba or Sagebrush gun oil and maybe a touch of parrafin to it.

Thank-you, Sir.

You're welcome sir.

1minute,

Not meaning to butt in here.

I have loaded the 45/90 for a few years and even with Swiss powders, I find a little compression is ok. My target loads get about 0.100" compression with the Lyman Postel 535 gr. bullet when cast 20:1. This load will produce +-8" groups at 600 yards, on a good day, from a rifle with a 18" twist barrel. I use Starline cases, mostly.

Jim

Back about 7 years ago I shot myself into Master Class in BPCR Silhouette using a pretty heavily compressed charge of 73g of 3E Swiss in my 45-70 with 530g bullets.

As I recall the compression was just under .300"

The gun shot as well as any I have ever owned with that load- just over 1 MOA for 10 straight shots,blow tubed- no cleaning.

My usual load is 75grs of 3F Swiss in 45/70. I've had 80grs before and it worked great. All in Starline cases. Drawback to 80grs is I got some spring back over time but just had to re-compress it and was good to go. Starline brass is my favorite and can take the compression because of it's thicker walls. Very consistent dimensions on that brass. Lee snot will put a mess in your barrel. Beeswax, crisco, jojoba, canola oil or olive oil in proper proportions is the way to go. No petroleum products in the lube and you should do well.

I just loaded up one round as I have decided it is too much trouble to do the BP thing. I shot it, and was pleased with the recoil and everything, and of course one shot didn't foul the barrel too badly.

Thanks for all y'alls help.

It's definitely a labor of love and not for everyone.

This is an update of my earlier post, after some work with the chronograph and the load shown below. This and similar loads are slower than I would have expected. I'm not sure why. 82.0 grs. of Swiss 1.5 Lot 150-506 averages about 1225 fps. With that lot about gone, I switched to Lot 010-508 which at the same volume weighs close to 84 grs. and seems to run maybe 20 fps faster. I say "seems" because of a limited test sample and chrono errors. Boosting the charge to 85.0 grs., about all the Starline case will hold, got me to around 1275. Again, with a sample too small to draw any firm conclusion. All of these were with a .444 diameter 534 gr. BACO Money bullet patched to .451 and a bit. Do paper patched bullets run slower than grease grooved bullets, all other things being equal? I don't know.

These loads are intended solely for long range target shooting, both NRA sanctioned and gong shoots. The main difference is that the sanctioned matches require the use of black powder exclusively, while the non-sanctioned shoots typically permit smokeless or duplex loads. Using up some cases previously charged with 77.0 grs. of Swiss 1.5 and 4.5 grs. of RL-7, the 534 gr. PP bullet went about 1300 and a bit.

I'm not sure there is a formula, and I have no nearby range to test at longer ranges, but my main concern about velocity is the stability of the bullet at 800 yards and beyond out of a 1 in 18" twist barrel. I believe there is a low end velocity limit at some matches. For these reason, my main goal is to achieve at least 1265 fps from an all-BP load. Accuracy is the remaining question.

The journey continues.

Ranch, Pete and I plan to be at Alliance next month. We will be driving my GUSA-mobile, as Pete's F-150 got crunched yesterday, possibly totalled. Nobody hurt, thankfully. Hope to see you and your lady there.

Paul

Paul there is a lowend velocity limit for "pit safety" at the paper matches, usually somewhere around 1200 fps for a 500 gr 45 caliber bullet.
Hope Pete wasn't hurt in the wreck.
See you guys in a month.

Ranch, Pete was with his daughter, and a car ran a flashing red light at a four-way on the edge of Omaha. Nobody was hurt, including a pregnant lady and infant in the car.

However, while they were getting things straighted out, and with a deputy on scene, there was a repeat with two other cars, and it appeared that there were injuries in the second accident.

Sounds like there needs to be some engineering looked at at that intersection.

For Pete's sake, I hope they consider his truck totalled. He's pretty proud of it.

Paul

Well hope they getit all ironed out and you guys can make it to Alliance and have a good time.