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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
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The off brands have to do something to sell rifles. Everyone that actually shoots knows that the 700 is the most accurate production rifle in the world.
Ruger are among the least accurate longguns available and always have been. Thanks for your opinions...laffin.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,757
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Under $750.00? you could make a good argument for a Remington 700 but My money says a Browning X-Bolt on average would out shoot most any rifle in this price range, also Tikkas plastic T3 is said to be a shooter and not long ago you could get a Sako A7 for that, at the $750.00 price point it really knock a bunch of good rifles out of the mix, if money were no object I'd like to try one of Nosler's model 48 rifles, I would say you would have a real shooter on your hands there. Good luck................Hillbilly.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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My Rem 700 .30-06 was NIB and is easily the least accurate factory bolt rifle in my safe. A friend's M700 SPS in .30-06 was also NIB and would tie for that distinction. My Marlin leverguns shoot as well, some better, and my Ruger #1 in .280 Rem shoots much better.
The inexpensive Savage .30-06 I bought for my son-in-law as a wedding present shoots much smaller groups than the M700 .30-06. That really wasn't a surprise as, until the barrel went south somewhere past 4500 rounds, the Savage 110E in .22-250 I had would shoot 5-shot groups you could cover with a dime.
Yesterday I was at the range shooting at 600 yards. I was ringing the 600 yard steel pretty much at will with my Ruger #1 in .280 Rem, Ruger MKII .338 Win Mag and Interarms Mark X action with a Krieger 6.5-06AI barrel. Couldn�t hit the thing at all with my Remington M700 in .30-06, though not for lack of trying.
Two young guys were there shooting a Sendero in .300 Win Mag. Neither of these guys could hit the 600 yard steel with the Sendero. They never got a chance to shoot at the clays at 600 as I took both of them out with the Krieger barreled �off brand� rifle action.
Just before elk season last year I had my Ruger MKIIs in .300 WM and .30-06 at the range for a final scope check and took out a clay at 600 with each, 5 shots total with a 3-2 split. 15 shots yesterday and I couldn�t hit the 12� square steel at with my M700 .30-06, although I danced all around it. (I did get a first-round hit on the steel at 500 with the Remington, somewhat to my surprise.)
Last week I saw guy shooting paper at 600 with a heavy barrel Savage in .308 Win. He was shooting tiny groups that were WAY better than the guys were doing yesterday with the Sendero. Kind of like comparing an apple to a beach ball in terms of size.
Dream on, swampgas, and make all the baseless claims you want. If I had to bet my life on choosing an accurate out of the box rifle, a new Remington wouldn�t even get a look.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,829
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
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The world is flat, the world is flat, the world is flat. That is a fact. My opinion is fact. Your opinion is opinion. If you don't believe that the world is flat you are a moron, because the world is flat, that is a fact. That is my opinion and my opinion is fact.
The world is flat, everyone who has flown around the world, knows that the world is flat. I only state facts. All you other morons just have opinions.
If you don't believe that the world is flat, I don't care.
(But I will continue to spout this fact ad nauseum)
(And BTW, I have no data to back up my facts, but they are facts and you are morons)
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,116
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,116 |
Accuracy per buck, performance on the cheap, it's hard to beat a Savage, asthetics notwithstanding. I wrote earlier that a hunting buddy bought a used .223 Stevens 200 for $225, and a Cabelas scope on a special promotional for $60. I mounted it with Chinese Weaver rings ($10). With 60 gr Partitions and 2015 powder (Lyman accuracy load) that thing shot 1 1/2" group at 200 yds. That's the most performance per buck I've seen, playing with rifles over many years. Now, it's not very pretty, but as Forest Gump said, "Pretty is as pretty does". I guess Savage could become an acquired taste.
DF
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,116
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,116 |
The world is flat, the world is flat, the world is flat. That is a fact. My opinion is fact. Your opinion is opinion. If you don't believe that the world is flat you are a moron, because the world is flat, that is a fact. That is my opinion and my opinion is fact.
The world is flat, everyone who has flown around the world, knows that the world is flat. I only state facts. All you other morons just have opinions.
If you don't believe that the world is flat, I don't care.
(But I will continue to spout this fact ad nauseum)
(And BTW, I have no data to back up my facts, but they are facts and you are morons) Right. And here are the facts. My yard is flat, my neighbor's yard is flat. All the yards in my neighborhood are flat. All the yards in town, in the state, in the country, even in all the world, are flat. The world is just an accumulation of yards, so the world is flat... Just facts, nothing but the facts... Everybody except me is an idiot, because I've got a lock on facts... Someone with such a talent for misrepresenting truth with facts ought to be in politics... Oh, I failed to mention statistics... DF
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,061
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,061 |
My Rem 700 .30-06 was NIB and is easily the least accurate factory bolt rifle in my safe. A friend's M700 SPS in .30-06 was also NIB and would tie for that distinction. My Marlin leverguns shoot as well, some better, and my Ruger #1 in .280 Rem shoots much better.
The inexpensive Savage .30-06 I bought for my son-in-law as a wedding present shoots much smaller groups than the M700 .30-06. That really wasn't a surprise as, until the barrel went south somewhere past 4500 rounds, the Savage 110E in .22-250 I had would shoot 5-shot groups you could cover with a dime.
Yesterday I was at the range shooting at 600 yards. I was ringing the 600 yard steel pretty much at will with my Ruger #1 in .280 Rem, Ruger MKII .338 Win Mag and Interarms Mark X action with a Krieger 6.5-06AI barrel. Couldn�t hit the thing at all with my Remington M700 in .30-06, though not for lack of trying.
Two young guys were there shooting a Sendero in .300 Win Mag. Neither of these guys could hit the 600 yard steel with the Sendero. They never got a chance to shoot at the clays at 600 as I took both of them out with the Krieger barreled �off brand� rifle action.
Just before elk season last year I had my Ruger MKIIs in .300 WM and .30-06 at the range for a final scope check and took out a clay at 600 with each, 5 shots total with a 3-2 split. 15 shots yesterday and I couldn�t hit the 12� square steel at with my M700 .30-06, although I danced all around it. (I did get a first-round hit on the steel at 500 with the Remington, somewhat to my surprise.)
Last week I saw guy shooting paper at 600 with a heavy barrel Savage in .308 Win. He was shooting tiny groups that were WAY better than the guys were doing yesterday with the Sendero. Kind of like comparing an apple to a beach ball in terms of size.
Dream on, swampgas, and make all the baseless claims you want. If I had to bet my life on choosing an accurate out of the box rifle, a new Remington wouldn�t even get a look.
+1 CH. I don't own a savage rifle for a couple of different reasons I won't go into right now but have much respect for them. My friend owns savages in different calibers and a stevens 200 in 22-250. The 22-250 is a tack driver but the trigger sucks!!!! He leaves it that way though since he's not really a great shooter anyway  . When we were breaking in the barrel I helped him get his scope dialed in (had him walk the bullets to the center of the bull), after he did this I fired a 1/2" group and said "yep it's a shooter" (In my mind I was thinking, great another good shooting damn savage   ). I had my friend shoot a group and it shot somewhere around 2 1/2 inches????? About the same time another friend was passing by the gravel pit we were shooting at (coincidentally he was passing by and saw us, thank god), he stopped and got out and I asked him to shoot a group with my friends new rifle. His group was .651" (had to dig out the target and look  ) and he also complained about the crappy trigger. If I hadn't have been there and my other friend wouldn't have stopped I know my friend would have thought his rifle didn't shoot for chit. As it is he wasn't happy with the cheap remington corelocts (45 gr. hp) since "they wern't that accurate" in his words, he now buys the more expensive hornady polymer tipped ammo that is twice as expensive. Go figure I guess....... I'd love to post a pic of the target, one of his groups is right at 7 inches for 3 shots  .
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2000
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You don't want 30-06 ... it is an inherently inaccurate cartridge .... stay away, if you want an accurate rifle!!
I'll second that, I can't get my .30-06 Sauer 202 to group 5 shots under .5 MOA  ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Othello041990/Sauer202bbl.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Othello041990/Sauer30-06groups.jpg)
Andre
--------------------------------------
3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,116
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,116 |
Andre,
You ought to get rid of that thing, you deserve better.
I'll take it off your hands, of course for a fire sale price...!
I'd be happy to give more for one that grouped...!
RKR
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074 |
The off brands have to do something to sell rifles. Everyone that actually shoots knows that the 700 is the most accurate production rifle in the world.
Ruger are among the least accurate longguns available and always have been. Thanks for your opinions...laffin. Pure bull......nice to see you still have diarrhea of the mouth!!!
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,366
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,366 |
Accurate or not it sure is unattractive.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
As opposed to that drain pipe action on your beloved 700.
Laffin.
You wouldn't know a good rifle if it sat on you and farted.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,366
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,366 |
I don't have any "good" rifles. All mine are perfect rifles.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 434
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 434 |
I have a 30-06 Vanguard Sub-MOA that shoots half in groups. It's factory target was one ragged hole. I picked it up unfired on an auction for a great price. The only change I did was swapped the trigger for a Timney.
I also have an a-bolt II that shoots almost as well but it's been bedded by me in a bell and carlson medalist stock.
They both shoot as accurate as my customs and coopers.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
Troll700
Fact is:
Rem cannot guarantee accuracy b/c their products will NOT consistently deliver groups as tight as the brands that DO GUARANTEE accuracy. IF they did, then REM could, should, and WOULD Guarantee, but that's not how it is....too many Quality Control issues.
FACT IS the Vanguard's have an accuracy guarantee, and I will GUARANTEE you won't have a bolt handle fall off like your beloved 700s, b/c they are one piece w/bolt.
You spew BS, and that is the only fact about you.
BTW, ask the board of directors where you work, since most things in wmart are mfg. in China, just when will China start production for Rem.
No doubt I as many others have owned accurate Rem's as well as many other brands as I don't go around wearing blinders and have no vested interest in ANY brand. Yet for a serious rifle, I will not trust a Rem, as besides all the QC Issues they have given me in the past, accuracy is only good, when the rifle can go bang, and cycle. Should your bolt handle fall off as mine did, your accuracy is DOA and you are SOL.
dlharsh - I will do as you spend my money on a Vanguard w/o hesitation, as they are made very well from design to quality control and their is NO excuse why a USA mfg. cannot do the same, other than seedy CEO's that have no interest beyond profits. One piece bolt handle, good bbl, smooth strong action w/reliable durable sako type extractor, AND an accuracy guarantee. What is not to like?
I never had a Vanguard or Howa that had any issues in QC, finishing, accuracy, or reliability. That cannot be said for some other brands, but percentage wise, Rugers have fared better IME all things considered inc. accuracy, than Rem or Winch.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,263 |
Vanguards, Sakos, Savages Tikkas.
I will put any of them up against a late model 700.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,061
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,061 |
You don't want 30-06 ... it is an inherently inaccurate cartridge .... stay away, if you want an accurate rifle!!
I'll second that, I can't get my .30-06 Sauer 202 to group 5 shots under .5 MOA Nice andre (as usual)...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 798
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 798 |
You don't want 30-06 ... it is an inherently inaccurate cartridge .... stay away, if you want an accurate rifle!!
I'll second that, I can't get my .30-06 Sauer 202 to group 5 shots under .5 MOA Nice andre (as usual)... Only if I could hold my rifle steady enough...............maybe I could aspire to Andre's great feats!!!! Great groups there!!!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
That is a nice rifle and great shooting by the owner. Regret passing on not getting one long ago in 6.5x55 or at least 270....yes Bob I said it  Very smooth actions and triggers break like an icicle. And as typical of most every Euro with good operator and ammo, they shoot so well they embarass alot of USA made rifles. At least you don't have to hassle w/a lot of tuning or aftermarket parts. They do well as they leave the factory....which afterall is what we Should get and expect to receive when we open our wallets right? No matter the brand. Oh-Troll, as to looks....I think the ADL-Syn is one Butt Ugly rifle, if one wants to talk about looks. The finish does well at rusting and promoting it just to enhance the looks.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
...... Everyone that actually shoots knows that the 700 is the most accurate production rifle in the world.
I'm not sure that was ever true....and certainly doubt it today. If you beleive it, that might be all you ever shot,or at least your experience is pretty narrow.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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