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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,651 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,651 Likes: 2 |
I do now have the ability to digitize my slides and plan on doing so this winter Great!!!! I have about a hundred cubic feet of slides, want to digitzie them too? What a thankless job that is! Good luck and I am cetain you have a ton of stuff that is seriously worth making available!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,222 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2006
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Thanks Phil. I look forward to seeing your photos. Most only dream of what you live daily.
Proud NRA Life Member
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,547 Likes: 4
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,547 Likes: 4 |
FWIW, here's what a 300gr NP travelling at about 2,520 fps 100 yds from the muzzle of a .375 Wby does: Here's the story. That being said, and it is just my preference, when my velocities get too much above 3,000 fps, I prefer something like the TTSX or TSX. I have never had any failure with a NP, but when a cartridge produces NASA-like velocities, I like to use a mono-metal bullet just in case. I wish Federal still factory loaded the 200gr NP in the "HE" (High Energy) loading in 300 WM. It pushed a 200gr NP at about the same speed as most factory loads push a 180gr, and it shot well out of my 700 BDL.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950 |
Anybody else remember this O'Connor account? He encountered a grizzly while hunting for another species, and sat down and put the crosshairs of his 270 on the bear's shoulder. He wrote something like "If I had pressed the trigger, that wicked little 130 grain Speer would have smashed it's shoulder..." but he didn't shoot. Currently, a 130 Speer isn't considered by most to be a decent bullet for under nourished deer.
Fred
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,547 Likes: 4
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,547 Likes: 4 |
I know all about how many rifles like a .270 or smaller will kill a brown bear, especially if you have a great presentation, like O'Connor apparently did in that scenario. But, sometimes, you don't. And something like a .375 H&H or even a .338 Win will give you a lot better performance on a difficult shot on a big animal at a tough angle, for example on a big bear quartering away. And you might not be able to get a better presentation on that animal. And it might be the only ONE you see during the hunting trip of a lilfetime.
If I was an Alaska resident, and successful bear hunting was getting fairly routine, I could see going a little bit undergunned. But, if you're from elsewhere, and spend a zillion dollars on, and countless hours preparing for, what's posisbly going to be the hunt of a lifetime, I would recommend bringing something a little more potent than a .30-cal. That's just my opinion, and not to imply that some .30-cal or smaller options will not work much of the time. I got the .375 Wby to hunt with and am glad I did. I didn't want to be thinking about what .300 WM bullet would do on a difficult angle. It just made me less apprehensive having a hard-hitter with me.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,974 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,974 Likes: 6 |
I can't see a 30 cal with a quality bullet as being under gunned. Sorry but they will get the job done with aplomb. A big bore revolver with a proper flat point hard cast has more than enouigh penetration for any angle shot.
DTDT
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950 |
Marinehawk The problem with the above 30 calibers, as I gather from reading stuff from guys that guide for bears year in and year out, is that MANY people people that show up with them FLINCH with them, resulting in some poorly placed shots. Fred
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,547 Likes: 4
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,547 Likes: 4 |
Marinehawk The problem with the above 30 calibers, as I gather from reading stuff from guys that guide for bears year in and year out, is that MANY people people that show up with them FLINCH with them, resulting in some poorly placed shots. Fred I know. And maybe it's a legitimate concern for a small number of people, but I personally think it's over-emphasized. I used to flinch 25 years ago when I bought and shot my first 300 Win Mag. A few months later, I had cured it by a lot of practice and focus. 18-months ago, when I first shot my .375 Wby, I did flinch a bit. 260-rounds later: zero finch. IMO, if a person is going to hunt something like brown bears, he should prepare himself mentally to not to be unnerved too much by something like a charging brown bear. If someone can and should do that, he likely also can learn to not flinch when merely facing the recoil of something like a .338 or .375. It just takes practice and focus. There may be exceptions to this, but I think their over-stated. Also, while a person may flinch while bench shooting, I may be wrong, but I simply cannot imagine a person flinching when shooting a prized game animal, especially something like a brown bear.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,547 Likes: 4
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
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I can't see a 30 cal with a quality bullet as being under gunned. Sorry but they will get the job done with aplomb. A big bore revolver with a proper flat point hard cast has more than enouigh penetration for any angle shot.
DTDT
Something like 360gr FN HC .45 caliber bullet traveling at 1,500fps probably will prenetrate more into a big animal than most 300 WM loadings. But the .454 Casull FN bullet also won't shoot as easily out past 50 yards or so (unless you're really good with a revolver), and certainly won't do as well at taking 200-300yd shots, etc ... It's a trade off. The .300 mags are very versitile rifles, and can handle brown bear. I can't find it right now, but some of the experienced guides on Alaksa Outdoors Forums said that they had seen a bunch of brownies taken by .30 cals, and they worked, but unlike larger caliber, they had never seen one taken with just one single .30-cal shot--follow-ups were required. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened, but these guides sad they are more ready to take a near-simultaneous shot on a brown bear when a client is shooting at one with a .30 cal. Maybe they are wrong, but that is their experience and there must be a reason why people make and sometimes use calibers larger than .30".
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,983 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,983 Likes: 5 |
Anybody else remember this O'Connor account? He encountered a grizzly while hunting for another species, and sat down and put the crosshairs of his 270 on the bear's shoulder. He wrote something like "If I had pressed the trigger, that wicked little 130 grain Speer would have smashed it's shoulder..." but he didn't shoot. Currently, a 130 Speer isn't considered by most to be a decent bullet for under nourished deer.
Fred O'Connor killed a few Grizzlies with his .270 Winchester. He said he liked to shoot them at about 200 yards in case things got hairy he had a buffer zone.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,547 Likes: 4
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,547 Likes: 4 |
Anybody else remember this O'Connor account? He encountered a grizzly while hunting for another species, and sat down and put the crosshairs of his 270 on the bear's shoulder. He wrote something like "If I had pressed the trigger, that wicked little 130 grain Speer would have smashed it's shoulder..." but he didn't shoot. Currently, a 130 Speer isn't considered by most to be a decent bullet for under nourished deer.
Fred O'Connor killed a few Grizzlies with his .270 Winchester. He said he liked to shoot them at about 200 yards in case things got hairy he had a buffer zone. But, if he had something bigger, would he really have worried about taking a fairly-long 150yd shot?
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,974 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,974 Likes: 6 |
I can't see a 30 cal with a quality bullet as being under gunned. Sorry but they will get the job done with aplomb. A big bore revolver with a proper flat point hard cast has more than enouigh penetration for any angle shot.
DTDT
Something like 360gr FN HC .45 caliber bullet traveling at 1,500fps probably will prenetrate more into a big animal than most 300 WM loadings. But the .454 Casull FN bullet also won't shoot as easily out past 50 yards or so (unless you're really good with a revolver), and certainly won't do as well at taking 200-300yd shots, etc ... It's a trade off. The .300 mags are very versitile rifles, and can handle brown bear. I can't find it right now, but some of the experienced guides on Alaksa Outdoors Forums said that they had seen a bunch of brownies taken by .30 cals, and they worked, but unlike larger caliber, they had never seen one taken with just one single .30-cal shot--follow-ups were required. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened, but these guides sad they are more ready to take a near-simultaneous shot on a brown bear when a client is shooting at one with a .30 cal. Maybe they are wrong, but that is their experience and there must be a reason why people make and sometimes use calibers larger than .30".
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
Were I to dice it up with a Griz or a Brown bear, I would worry more about where I hit them than if my 300 ultra was up to the job.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,130
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,130 |
Sure are alot of big bears being killed by bullets that are considered "non premium bullets"!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 193
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 193 |
as far as I am concerned, the only people who can properly answer these questions are the ones who do this for a living and have seen dozens and dozens of kills. I personally would think a 300 with good bullet like barnes or A-Frame would be plenty, but i tend to agree with others that if paying the price I would make damn sure I took the right medicine by talking with guides and reading like crazy ...
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 24
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 24 |
300 win mag is a great choice. Load it up with premium 200 grainers or some 220 grainers.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 38
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 38 |
Your .300 Win Mag will do the job, I would defintely use a good controlled expansion premium bullet. Personally I am a believer in Nosler Partitions. When using my .300 I choose the 200 grn version. It has been a great performer on everything I shot in Alaska from Red Fox to Buffalo.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,135
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,135 |
Here is mine... Shot it with a 330 Dakota using a 250 gr Swift A frame Squared and honest 9' 10" Skull was 27 13/16" I have seen 2 other brown bears killed in my life.. One was with a 300 rem ultra- 200 gr. noslers One with 300 win. using 180 barnes x The Guide I used frequently takes hunters for Brown Bears with bow and arrow.. I agree with Phil, a 30.06 with right bullet placement with kill any bear on the planet. I believe that you want more gun when things go wrong/bad.. meaning you failed to put the bullet where you intended.. that to me is where the larger caliber and premium bullet can really help. That is not an all encompassing statement, however this bear is proof that the larger caliber helped me harvest this bear. BTW-- this was a large bear for the area in was shot in. We were just south of the Alaska pass in the Talkeetna's.
Last edited by harleyguy02; 09/22/11.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554 |
Nice bear!!! Where is Alaska Pass, i've never heard of it before.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,913
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,913 |
No need o buy a bigger gun. I killed a big grizzly with a 200 grain Partition out of a big 30. DRT.
Teach every child you meet the importance of forgiveness. It's our only hope of surviving their wrath once they realize just how badly we've screwed things up for them.
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