24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 8 of 14 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 13 14
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
First, remember that CZ makes a single action version of the CZ-75, and it's very nice. For a single action CZ 75 the trigger is far superior to a Hi Power. For a double action CZ-75 the single action trigger is better than an out of the box HP. If you were to remove the HP magazine disconnect, then the HP would typically (like you said, each gun is a law unto itself) the HP would have the better trigger.

To understand how the magazine disconnect complicates the trigger, you have to understand how the magazine disconnect works. The mag disconnect is actually installed in the trigger and there�s a spring and plunger in the trigger. The magazine disconnect bears against an inserted magazine so you have the spring pressure from the trigger return spring AND the built up spring pressure from the coil spring of the magazine disconnect.

The HP�s trigger with a magazine disconnect really isn�t �bad� per-se, just very unconventional for a handgun trigger. The HP�s trigger is much like a two stage trigger found on an old military Mauser rifle with a steady take up, followed by a crisp let off as the second stage. I�ve never had any trouble at all wringing good performance out of the stock trigger in a HP and find it preferable to most DA or trigger cocking handguns.

A gunsmith who really knows his Hi Power�s can get a truly excellent trigger with the magazine disconnect installed, but it�s quite a bit of work. Most just find it easier to just lose the mag disconnect and install the C&S hammer & sear, along with reducing the mainspring weight. Some may choose to mess with the sear spring, but this is a big mistake as the sear spring is not the greatest design to begin with on the Hi Power (for more on that, read my piece on ShootersJournal.net on the Hi Power), so I don�t recommend messing with the sear spring at all. Besides, after removal of the magazine disconnect and swapping the sear & hammer (then fine tuning the two), and reducing the mainspring; you have a trigger that�s pretty damn light. Any additional advantage a reduced sear spring would give you just isn�t worth it in my book.

With the magazine disconnect, I�ve found that Bill Laughridge�s replacement trigger bar is the best way. Unfortunately it requires one to drill another hole in the slide, but it changes the leverage from the trigger and really makes for a downright first rate trigger. This should be accompanied by some reworking of the magazine disconnect as well. Reworking the magazine disconnect can get a bit involved, depending on how re-worked you want to get. If you want factory magazines to fall free, there�s work on the spring, as well as reshaping and polishing of the magazine disconnect.


GB1

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487
G
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
G
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487
Thanks for your insight, Kevin.


The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 604
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 604
Originally Posted by KevinGibson
First, remember that CZ makes a single action version of the CZ-75, and it's very nice. For a single action CZ 75 the trigger is far superior to a Hi Power. For a double action CZ-75 the single action trigger is better than an out of the box HP. If you were to remove the HP magazine disconnect, then the HP would typically (like you said, each gun is a law unto itself) the HP would have the better trigger.

To understand how the magazine disconnect complicates the trigger, you have to understand how the magazine disconnect works. The mag disconnect is actually installed in the trigger and there’s a spring and plunger in the trigger. The magazine disconnect bears against an inserted magazine so you have the spring pressure from the trigger return spring AND the built up spring pressure from the coil spring of the magazine disconnect.

The HP’s trigger with a magazine disconnect really isn’t “bad” per-se, just very unconventional for a handgun trigger. The HP’s trigger is much like a two stage trigger found on an old military Mauser rifle with a steady take up, followed by a crisp let off as the second stage. I’ve never had any trouble at all wringing good performance out of the stock trigger in a HP and find it preferable to most DA or trigger cocking handguns.

A gunsmith who really knows his Hi Power’s can get a truly excellent trigger with the magazine disconnect installed, but it’s quite a bit of work. Most just find it easier to just lose the mag disconnect and install the C&S hammer & sear, along with reducing the mainspring weight. Some may choose to mess with the sear spring, but this is a big mistake as the sear spring is not the greatest design to begin with on the Hi Power (for more on that, read my piece on ShootersJournal.net on the Hi Power), so I don’t recommend messing with the sear spring at all. Besides, after removal of the magazine disconnect and swapping the sear & hammer (then fine tuning the two), and reducing the mainspring; you have a trigger that’s pretty damn light. Any additional advantage a reduced sear spring would give you just isn’t worth it in my book.

With the magazine disconnect, I’ve found that Bill Laughridge’s replacement trigger bar is the best way. Unfortunately it requires one to drill another hole in the slide, but it changes the leverage from the trigger and really makes for a downright first rate trigger. This should be accompanied by some reworking of the magazine disconnect as well. Reworking the magazine disconnect can get a bit involved, depending on how re-worked you want to get. If you want factory magazines to fall free, there’s work on the spring, as well as reshaping and polishing of the magazine disconnect.



What he said. We dont, by the way, use Bill's sear bar or lighten the mainspring, we just install his trigger with the disconnect removed, use his hammer and work the parts. My personal FN HP breaks crisp at 5lbs and it gives my SIG 210 a run for the money in accuracy. If I wasnt so cheap, I would have
used Bill's sear too...o well, Ill just have the factory one recut once more before I swap it out..

WildloveshpsAlaska ��2002-2011


Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine t�tige Unwissenheit.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755
D
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
D
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755
Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine t�tige Unwissenheit.

Einige Leute m�gen ihre unwissenden Seligkeit.


He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718
2
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
2
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718
Originally Posted by KyWindageII
If I were to purchase a new one, which should I buy and who should I send it to?


Karl Sokol? No experience with him, just a bump for feedback.


Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
IC B2

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 117
C
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
C
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 117
Tom;

I actually did read the entire article, as I'm a bit of a Hemingway fan, and I wanted to get the quote right (I've seen several variations). However one may agree or disagree with his sentiments, he does have a gritty prose style that gets his point across. His book on bullfighting actually explained a lot about the event that I'd never heard of.

One of his biographers spoke of a hereditary blood disorder he had inherited that possibly led to his suicide. A shame, especially when contrasted with the fates of his heroes (Robert Jordan, for one).

Doubletap: Warum Sie mich hassen? Wir kennen uns nicht.

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Wildalaska
If I wasnt so cheap, I would have
used Bill's sear too...o well, Ill just have the factory one recut once more before I swap it out..

WildloveshpsAlaska ��2002-2011


Typically you can get away without using the C&S sear, the factory one is usually pretty good. The factory hammer is pretty good, but it takes a bit of work to get it as nice as the C&S, and when done, it�s still not the same quality as a C&S hammer. So when you figure in labor to get the factory hammer as nice as the C&S where the sear notch is concerned, it starts to make sense to just buy the C&S, because it will come out to about the same price, and when it�s all said and done, you have a better hammer.

The only time I�ve swapped sears is when a customer wants their trigger to be super fine, say under 3.5lbs, or if there are flaws in the factory sear. And like you, I typically stick with the 32lb mainspring when I�m building a HP for myself. I like that stiff spring, and I don�t much care for triggers that are too light on the HP.

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by CaptFlipCapsize
Tom;

I actually did read the entire article, as I'm a bit of a Hemingway fan, and I wanted to get the quote right (I've seen several variations). However one may agree or disagree with his sentiments, he does have a gritty prose style that gets his point across. His book on bullfighting actually explained a lot about the event that I'd never heard of.

One of his biographers spoke of a hereditary blood disorder he had inherited that possibly led to his suicide. A shame, especially when contrasted with the fates of his heroes (Robert Jordan, for one).

Doubletap: Warum Sie mich hassen? Wir kennen uns nicht.

While I understand that for some, what Hemingway wrote is true, however; in this day and age, I find reveling in such things rather repugnant. Many resist the urge for mankind to evolve, but I'll gladly admit to wanting to evolve beyond that part of humanity.

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,044
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,044
I'll respectfully offer an alternate view. The CZ75 is better.

The CZ is more robust. It may be carried cocked and locked, and when it is cocked the trigger moves back negating trigger reach problems for many if not most. While there can be a trigger reach issue with the CZ in DA mode, the HP has no DA option (I'm not a fan of DA, but the CZ has it if needed). I find stock safeties easier to find and swipe on CZ's, and, in fact, much prefer the CZ's ergonomics all the way around.

The HP is a bit easier to conceal as it is a bit thinner, especially up front, but they're both full-size pistols. The missing weight out front has a cost though as HP's have always seemed a bit muzzle light to me.

Finally, if you look at the cost of a HP and the requisite trigger/magazine disconnect job vs. the cost of a CZ75, there's a sizable difference. That money could go towards training, ammo or a good holster. (CZ's can benefit, of course, from trigger work but it's usually not required. CZ triggers are usually better than manageable out of the box and often quite good.)

Obviously much of this is just personal preference. So while we're covering that, I'll say that I'd put them both miles ahead of the plastic pistols. Nomex coveralls donned - roast away! laugh Cheers.



"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Well said TexasPhotog.

IC B3

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755
D
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
D
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755
Capt,
Es war nicht an Sie gerichtet. Es gibt keinen Hass, nur einige Skepsis.


He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 117
C
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
C
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 117
Doubletap;
Verzeihen Sie mir bitte. Ich glaube wenig, das im Augenblick verfolgt wird. Ich entschuldige mich, wenn meine Unterschrift Sie beleidigte.

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 117
C
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
C
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 117
I'm sure the original poster has long since left the building, but I had the guys at Novak work my BHP over, and it runs like a top. You won't regret the BHP.

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Wayne Novak was one of the original BHP specialists; he built the one's for the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team, and the first request in their specification was to remove the magazine disconnect. IIRC, that was also the FBI's request on the S&W 1076.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,150
D
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,150
So, someone visited your site and left a nasty? Wonder who might have had the skills to do that. Hmmmmmm

Dan


"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674
Likes: 1
Did you get an error?

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,150
D
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,150
No, just commenting on your post about having been visited by a hacker.

Just pondering who might be able to do that. And, why?

Gives one pause.

Dan


"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 469
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 469
Originally Posted by Dan_Chamberlain
No, just commenting on your post about having been visited by a hacker.

Just pondering who might be able to do that. And, why?

Gives one pause.

Dan


I am an IT Director at a small Oil Company in West Sacramento CA....as such I have to deal with hackers and the damage they leave behind...they for the most part are the lowest of the low in my opinion...if they cant get to what they want (normally something they can money on or use for ID theft) then they just tear some files up and cause chaos then leave...the worst are the "Script Kiddies"...third rate low lifes that have little if any skills and just copy scripts they get of the internet and then use them to pop accounts or sites so they can be destructive little pieces of poop.....I can not wait to meet someone who proclaims they are a "Hacker"...as he will have vented onto him a world of hurt because of all the nights sleep I have lost repairing damage left behind by ilk like him....ohhhh god do I pray for that day..


James Dunn

[email protected]
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,467
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,467
Originally Posted by JamesDunn
I am an IT Director at a small Oil Company in West Sacramento CA....
So much for you two [bleep] being ass-kicking "gunsmiths," huh? What a f*cking joke.


I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted by safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted by Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 915
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 915
Another on my ignore list. It is short and very undisquinguished.


Osama and Obama both have friends who bombed the Pentagon.
Page 8 of 14 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 13 14

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

73 members (alffe, 6mmCreedmoor, 375sunrise, 257robertsimp, 14 invisible), 788 guests, and 868 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,193,977
Posts18,519,906
Members74,020
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.101s Queries: 55 (0.033s) Memory: 0.9432 MB (Peak: 1.0646 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-18 08:38:41 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS