Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Long range shooting with a .223

Thanks for the info guys I have a few avenues to take here, guess I'll see which does best.

I was able to get out today (beautiful weather) and shoot my AR....now I wasnt doing anything long distance...as a matter of fact I only shot it to 175 yds...but I did a bit of a ladder test.
I had Hornady 75 grain HPBT's and 75 grain Amax's....I am pleased to say my 1-9 twist stabilized them quite well though I did notice the Amax's seemed squirrelly at low velocity.
I had 20 rounds of each bullet starting with R15 in each case, I started at 24 grains on up to 26.1 grains of the R15.
Both my upper end loads where a hair over 2900 fps in my 20" barrel.
Anyway, I think my rifle liked the 75 grain HPBT's better than the Amax's as they seemed to be a bit tighter and the Amax's seemed all over the place at lower velos.
Oh yeah, I single loaded all bullets as I was .015" off my lands and couldnt make magazine constraints.
I am going to load up some more 75 HPBT's and continue with the upper end loads and get her sighted in and stretch her out and see how she does.

1:9 is kind of a slow twist for the 75 A-Max, which is why it only stabilized at the higher velocities. I would concentrate on the 75HPBT, and you might also look at Berger's offerings in the range also.

Finally 2900fps+ is a little fast in a 20 inch barrel, that may be a bit of a hot load there. You might want to take some measures to mitigate the pressure.

Thx, I did notice my primers started to flatten on shots 19 and 20 with each bullet as the powder loads were 25.9 and 26.1 grains...
Problem is that is where along with load 18 that it was the tightest with the ladder test.
I have read about R15 and temp sensitivity and today was 54 degrees out, I imagine when it hits 90 I may really be a bit hot.

26.2gr of 15 is what I run in 223ai w/75's w/lapua brass. 26.5 in rp brass.

Jeez, thks. Dan, Was fun though wasn't it?

I shoot the 223 AI in an AR with pretty good results to intermediate ranges on coyotes. 600 is about the end of it though for me. I originally shot the 65 JLK Low Drag out of this rig and that was the most accurate bullet it ever shot [9T 26" Hart barrelled Insight Shooting Systems--www.insightshootingsystems.com ] at any distance. 75 A-Max might have done better had it been 8T instead. Used the old DPMS VLD magazine and it worked well.

Here's mom with it at 425--



Here's the DPMS VLD mag. [now discontinued] with 75 A-Max at new mag. length--

I have a bolt Action Savage heavy barrel, with a one in 9... however it will shoot 80 grain and down bullets with no problems at all...

can't speak for an AR, but the 1 in 9 the Savage has not had problems with any bullet it has been fed...

and like Shane/Montana Marine said, the Hornady 75 gr HP Match bullet is MORE accurate than the 75 grain A Max...as is the 80 grain A Max...

I believe I have discovered that too....it was way more consistant.

I will be buying a bunch more of these, not sure if I will make it to 1K but will get as far as possible.

Seafire,

LIke you I fired the 80 grainer in my Savage .223 with tht nine twist. The best I could do with them was ten shots in 2" at 300 yards. But they did group rather than scatter.

When I tried them in my twelve twist at 100 yards they made perfect profile bullet shaped holes.

The way I look at it if the bullet is less than an inch long, it should be (underline "should") be stabilized in a 20 inch 1:9 twist barrel. As you get to the inch and longer, the barrel had better be longer to get a higher velocity or you need a faster twist.

A good example of this is the 77rg SMK. Its length is .985 inch according to the bullet database, right on the cusp. Lots of people can shoot it in a 1:9 twist, but lots of people can't stabilize it. This is due to variations in the twist in the barrel, but it shows the tipping point and I'll bet some strange things happen when it gets really cold and dry. The 75gr A-max is 1.07 inch and the HDY 75HPBT is .98. Higher velocities should allow a 1:9 twist to stabilize the 75 A-max and that's easier to achieve with a 24 or 26 inch barrel.

A long range shooter should know the length of his or her bullets and make selections accordingly. Of course, empirical data always trumps theory, because in theory everything works.

Probably why the Amaxs got a little squirrely for me at lower velocities.

That might have been because the 75 A-max was not quite completely stabilized.

Crap, you are fast. Exactly what you said.

LOL

That's my exact load for 223 AI with 75 Amax.

Well Rich,

2 inches at 300 yds is pretty decent to me..

but I usually am better at longer distances... an optometrist over at the range was telling me that is due to depth perception problems...

not that I am a benchrest shooter...or a good 1000 yd competitor...

I've competed in a 1000 yd shot or two... and usually was close to last place... but I was pretty happy with the groups I was getting for myself...

at 600 yds I was happy all my shots were on an 11 x 14 sheet of paper...

I am sure with Better optics, and trigger I could have done better... or a professional could have done better with my rifle... I was using a 6mm Rem and a 6.5 x 57...

I did compete with the 75 grain HP Hornadys at 600 yds and the Savage, with an 8 x 32 scope on top...Tasco Custom Shop Model... and the rifle did pretty darn well...

I think with a 20 degree Picatinny Rail, that would have helped also...

Good luck with that...

I would suggest trying the heavest bullet your rifle will shoot accurately at 300, crony the load, and run a balistic program with the results. Your bullet must remain SS at 1K.for best results on paper, but you probably already know this.

I have my doubts you will be able to do this with what you have.

I do to but it can't hurt in trying.

As an aside I ran my current #'s through my ballistics program and at 1K it would be going 1130 fps.....on the cusp.

It's not the FPS that is important, it's the Mach number. I try to make sure my bullets are above Mach 1.25 at the target because this is the speed where compresibility disturbance begins. As you know, the speed of sound in air is almost completely dependent on one single thing, and that's temperature.

You also need to remember that as air temperature drops, air density increases and your bullets slow down faster and that will show on the 1000 yard target.

My .308 load is above Mach 1.4 at the 1000 yard target and that makes me happy.

jbmballistics shows the Mach number, make sure you set the temperature correctly. Humidity has some influence but it is very minor.