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Bottom line Logcutter. Would you use a .223 for elk? That's cheating.  If I was wolf hunting and elk season was open and all I had was my .223,yes if it was a short(within 100 yards) broadside shot with the elk not spooked and I had either Nosler or TSX's in the tube. Would I go Elk hunting with a .223..Not in this lifetime unless were invaded by a foreign country. Jayco
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Campfire Tracker
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Bottom line Logcutter. Would you use a .223 for elk? That's cheating. If I was wolf hunting and elk season was open and all I had was my .223,yes if it was a short(within 100 yards) broadside shot with the elk not spooked and I had either Nosler or TSX's in the tube. Would I go Elk hunting with a .223..Not in this lifetime unless were invaded by a foreign country. Jayco That's cheating too. Why would you be carrying a .223, and hunting wolves in elk season? 
Last edited by Mauser_Hunter; 02/21/12.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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Campfire Tracker
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I guess I am missing the point.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Jayco, your logic is irrefutable....no doubt it "can be done".......but......  You ain't suckin' me into this one....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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You can tell we are between big game hunting season
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Campfire Regular
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You can tell we are between big game hunting season +1
happiness is elbow deep in elk guts.
NRA life member
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Campfire Regular
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Montana does not have any caliber restrictions for big game hunting. It would not be illegal to shoot an elk with a .22 rimfire here.
When I hunted Caribou and Musk ox in northern Canada, my Eskimo guide hunted with a .223. He told me he had even killed a Polar bear with his .223, but he had to shoot it 3 times.
The smallest caliber that I have shot elk with is .25, my .257 AI, and it was probably the quickest elk kill that I have made. However, I did kill a black bear with a .223.
I have several friends that have killed a pile of elk and several buffalo with their .22-250s. When Scenearshooter lived here he killed just about everything with his .220 Swift. Critters must be tougher up north, eh Pat?
But these guys are all excellent shooters, have been hunting all of their lives, and don't shoot at animals standing in the next zip code. I think you meant centerfire...correct? No, I didn't. To quote from the 2011 Montana Deer, Elk, Antelope regulations, page 7: "Methods of Hunting
Firearms
General Season
There is no rifle or handgun caliber limitation for the taking of big game animals."The same exact wording in also written on page 10 of the 2011 Montana Moose, Sheep, Goat Regulations. I'm not advocating it, I'm just reporting what is written.
SAVE 200 ELK, KILL A WOLF
NRA Endowment Life Member
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Campfire Ranger
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Damn, I never would have guessed that. Page 10 specifies no caliber limitations, but says nothing about centerfire vs rimfire.
I read the entire regs though to see if any more info was available concerning CF and RF. You're right: a 22 rimfire is legal. Crazy.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Indian, not the arrow. Good enough statement for me.
Just think, years and years ago, there were no rules, folks used what worked and within its parameters and did just fine. Somewhere someone decided we needed more and more rules and regs, evidently for idiots that came along somewhere along the line...
Along those lines I"d bet that more than a few elk were tipped wtih 32-20 and 25-20 over the years.
Since I know my limitations and the limitations of the given cartridge I choose, I think its no one elses business. But then again I do have ethics...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Richard Mann,one of the NRA's contracted experts, helped develop the Bullet Test tube. (It�s slightly harder material than the gelatin used in Federal�s test.) Mann tested Federal�s loads in it and on deer, and here�s what he found:
When robustly constructed bullets like the Barnes TSX, Nosler Partition and Fusion are used inside 150 yards, penetration with the .223 Remington is on par with cartridges like the .243 and the .30-30 Winchester.�
We all know the 30-30 Winchester has killed a boat load of Elk and most other game and when the .223 penetrates equally with a well constructed bullet,within it's range and a well placed shot,I see no problem using it on Elk,just like the famed .243.
Jayco You remind me of some fly fisherman I know. They insist on using the lightest tippets (end of leader) for very big fish. What happens is they can't put any real pressure on the fish, or the tippet will break. They also use very light fly rods, and again they can't put any pressure on the fish. So, all they can do is slowly play the fish until it's exhausted. Now, keep in mind these are catch and release fisherman who claim to care for the fish. They're also fishing Gold Medal waters that are always catch and release. The point being to not kill the fish. They finally land the exhausted trout on their tiny .223 size fishing gear, and hold up their prize bragging how they did it on small gear. Then they finally put the trout back in the water trying to revive it. It may slowly swim away, but it's dead. It went off by itself to die. I ask them why they do it. They say because it fun and a challenge. The truth is they just want to brag about it, and could care less about killing the fish. I feel someone who shoots a small caliber for big game is doing the same thing. Just something to brag about with no regard for the animal. As was already said. You want to hunt elk? Buy an elk gun. Surely you can handle more than 3 lbs of recoil? So Mauser, where do you draw the line caliber wise and WHY?
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Tracker
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Colorado says nothing smaller than a .243. I guess i'll go along with that, but personally. A .270.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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Campfire Member
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Sure, a .223 could kill an Elk with a perfect shot, but in the field it is seldom perfect shot. To use a small caliber creates the potienial to wound if the shot is marginal, such as if the animal moved as the trigger is pulled... Sure, the same could happen with a larger caliber, but when it comes down to it, there is a reason why highly experienced Elk hunters use larger calibers because they have seen and trailed an animal that was wounded or couldn't be recovered and dies a slow death. Yea, the placement is more important than than the size, but no one, and I MEAN NO ONE, will always make a perfect shot in the field.
Rick
Life is not a spectator sport, get out and have fun.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Interesting. A 243 of years ago, with modern propellants and projectiles, a 223 easily will do anything an old 243 would.
That being said if I am headed on a hunt where I don't want to have to pass a shot, IE any elk hunt I go on since I'm still elkless, my minimum is 300 mag and prefer a 338 mag. MZ wise nothing less than a 54 running 545 grain conicals.
Still, all in all, if you are willing to hunt and choose a light gun, I don't at all see it like a light tippet. You simply don't "fish" if you can't "get it in right now" Its not like the animal will suffer or the bullet will bounce off, just that you have to have tighter parameters. Just like MZ and Archery hunters take on everytime they go out.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Good deal if you're hunting ballistic gel.
Any bones in that gel? Come on Mauser, chootem twixt the damned ribs man. 
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Word to the wise. I have killed 4 elk with 22 centerfires and in my experience elk shoulders will stop 80gr VLDs every time. Rib shot elk are dead as fast as rib shot elk die but I would highly recommend using arrow type shot placement as other posters have suggested with the .22s. On the same line of thought I have never seen the 105gr .243 VLD fail on an elks shoulder but I have only seen a dozen or so elk killed with that bullet. In my personal experience that is the difference between the calibers. Lil Logcutter, While you are stirring the pot here somewhat I also suspect you are liking your new machine gun and are playing with the thought of popping an elk with said black rifle?  Keep it on the ribs close to the heart and you will have no problems and as others have said it might be kinda fun like any other limited range type of hunt. Killing an elk with the .223 would certainly be easier than taking said elk with a bow. I am amazed that anyone could be so uncertain of their shooting ability to think quickly killing an elk at 200yds with a .223 would somehow be impossible for all but the superhuman.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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I dunno logcutter, performance of premium bullets aside..... I spose' if an elk was to walk out in my shooting range, no farther than 100 yds, completely broadside, in elk season, WHILE I was shooting my .223, bullet construction almost besides the point by now, hell under those conditions I would be stupid not to put one behind or in the ear.... None of that has happened, not that it can't but I'm not really looking to hold out for that kind opportunity to kill an elk.... Elk hunting already has enough hurtles in it.  If thats ALL the rifle I had was my one hole shoot'n, fast, nimble .223, I would hunt like I was bow hunting to close the range and kill elk.
happiness is elbow deep in elk guts.
NRA life member
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I shouldn't really talk. This year i'm using a flintlock and round ball for muley's and elk. I understand it's limits though, and will only take close perfect shots. I may never get those shots, but i'll have fun trying.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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So, are you trying to make the case that a 60-grain .223 bullet penetrating 15 inches in a ballistic medium is the same as a .50 caliber 450 grain bullet penetrating 15 inches in the same medium? Yes,if the 450 grain is unexpanded....... Of course the bullet would expand, so your "comeback" makes no sense. Just like the orignal post.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I shouldn't really talk. This year i'm using a flintlock and round ball for muley's and elk. I understand it's limits though, and will only take close perfect shots. I may never get those shots, but i'll have fun trying. You then understand my contention RE the 223. Thats all.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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because it is illegal in WY to use a caliber smaller than 243 for big game Same in Colorado..... Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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