Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Bear Defense...

MarlinSBL 45-70 w/Garretts 540gr. SuperHardCast gas-checked Hammerhead
Benelli M4 H2O w/Brenneke Black Magic Slug
Browning BAR .338 w/300gr. Woodleigh Weldcore JSP
Ar15/M4 .458 SOCOM w/405gr. CORBON Self-Defense JSP

Which Gun/Cal./cartridge-bullet would you want with you for defense(not hunting) against Grizzly & Coastal Brown Bear...and why?

Will any of these guns/loads do just fine?

Anyone should work, just saying. Never had to defend myself against a bear though.

Any of those would work. Personally, I'd probably choose the Marlin, but with 350-420 grain bullets of hard or tough construction, and moderate speed. The main thing is that the weapon must be friendly enough to keep handy at all times when it is potentially needed.

Some of these may not penetrate before desentegrating or flattening on a thick skull--the Corbon"JSP" and the Black Magic slug. The hard-cast 45/70 for sure will stay together. The .338 Woodleigh is a different kind of "JSP" from the Corbon and will penetrate.

hmmm...seems to be a popular pick that 45-70...although that Brenneke BlackMagic is .80 cal. and hold together penetrating for 3-4 feet?
I am partial to semi-auto especially when you may only have 3 seconds or less?
How about that .338 BAR w/Corbon?
And that .458 ...is it too weak?

Mostly I carry my Win 94 .30-30 (Dad's gun, manufactured 1927)

Moose hunting - often the .338 Mag, tho the last couple seasons the .260.

Primary weapon however, is the ol' brain.... bears ain't so dangerous as dumshititis.

42 years in Alaska dinging around the weeds, I've yet to HAVE to shot a bear. If I ever have to, I'd prefer a 5 inch Naval gun.

I'm thinking the sling to carry it might be a bit much....

The Brenneke slugs are hard, not like Foster "deer" slugs.

Placement remains king.

Personally, the rubric is:
rifle > shotgun > handgun.

I seem to recall someone on here mentioned carrying a .454 lever action for bear defense.
I can't remember who it was though.

My Marlin .45-70 with my "Rhino Blaster" loads (460g hardcast @ 1812fps) would give a lot of confidence.

Those suckers cut heavy steel chain at 100 yards and wrap the hanging steel targets around the pole until the chain is used up.

Yes...I know, and I kinda like the idea of quick followup shot (placement, of course)...whether with a SG or BAR. Hunting is one thing...but at 10 yds. or closer I am really wondering if it matters between a .338 Win, Mag - .375H&H or .416 Rigby and such...?

Big bears do not get big by eating tiny humans. They get that way by being smart and avoiding them. Humans get old by avoiding bears. As las said, it's largely a matter of brain use - or not. (You might also reference Timmy T. if you need further evidence of this concept.)

Avoid whale stink emanating from the alders and other similar situations. (Clue here: the whale probably had help getting there. ) If you're a raven or magpie lover/watcher, buy more life insurance. (Clue here: they're either hanging around 'cause something's already dead, or they have reason to believe you may become their next meal. ) If you find a freshly 'baked' berry pie cooling on the tundra, stay clear. (Clue here: Aunt Millie doesn't - or shouldn't anyway- put twigs, leaves, and green berries in her pies....hopefully. ) About animal tracks: if it makes a big track with two toes, stay alert, but don't worry; if there are also small two-toe tracks intermingled: perhaps worry some. If the tracks involve ten toes- five smaller 'toes' ahead of five bigger round impressions, move in the direction of the bigger ones.

I would not choose any of those, although I have carried my Marlin 1895-'70s vintage .45-70 with heavy loads and good bullets as well as a modded Miroku 1886 SRC with the same loads.

I usually spend a lot of time every year alone in tiny mountain tents in densely populated Grizzly country. I prefer a short, CRF .375H&H-300 NPs or a 22.5" tubed .338WM-Classic sts-modded action-250NP or one of my Brno ZG or 550 rifles in 9.3x62-286NP.

I also sometimes carry and sleep with my Merkel drilling, 12-12-9.3x74R, with two Brennekes and a 286 NP at 2400. This, actually, if you are familiar with it, a VERY important point, is about as "good" a bear defence gun as exists.

My bear encounters.

About 1968 or so.I'm in my early twenties. Macho dumbshit carrying a 44mag SBH. I had packed into NE NM and had taken the horses back to the ranch.Walking back in I meet a black bear coming down the trail. The black bear goes off the trail about 20yards and sits down.I draw my handgun, and was able to cover the entire bear by shaking.Handgun goes back in holster,I move to the opposite side of the trail. Bear comes back,goes down the trail. I go back on the trail and continue up it.

1978 or so. I'm hunting deer in Southern CO. I was working some nasty thick stuff and crawled up over a mound.There about 6 ft from me is a big black bear's head sticking out of a den. Eyes open looking at me.I skid back down the mound,go into town and buy a bear tag,I took my two hunting buddies back and we go to the den. I told them I will flush it out they are suppose to shoot it. Luckily the bear was gone as I found out the two guys could not hit the broad side of a barn.

1980 or so and I had an elk hunt in the Red Deer river country of Alberta.We came upon and elk kill that a grizzliy had gotten on and the guide ( you had to have one in Alberta if you were a NR)asked me to get off my horse and put my boot the grizzly track to compare the size. He told me the horse would alert me if the bear was close.Dumb me gets off the horse that is snorting and blowing like heck. I got back on the horse and we had what I called a controlled run away. Back in camp the guides had a good laugh and said they would sure as heck not get off thier horse if a bear was close by. I guess Canadian guides have wierd sense of humors. I got a decent bull that trip,bu t nothing to brag about.

1998 or so. We were ML hunting elk in the Flat Tops of CO.I did not have tag,and was wrangling the mules.My two buddies (different from above) were off hunting and I had curled up in a pauncho and went to sleep. The mules went beserk and were bucking, bawling, kicking and woke me up.Rolling out of the pauncho,I see a good size bear ambling down the trail I was next to,about 35 feet from me. I hastliy drew my handgun, and got ready.Then realized I only had the 32H&R mag in my hand. By that time the bear had stood up,chomping it's teeth, but I guess that the mules were making too much racket and it turned and ambled back up the trail.Note to self, 32 is poor bear defense and always carry extra shorts to changed into. One mule never did calm down.I had to leave early and that mule ran off, my buddy came off and broke a few ribs.

A few years later. Again ML elk hunting in southern CO and I again had no tag. My one buddy had broken his foot and returned to Colorado Springs to get it looked at and that left me with a young lad of 25 or so that I was guiding of sorts without fee. I had set him set up and returend to the mules and went to sleep in a pauncho ( I like to sleep). I had taken off my belt with the handgun and laid it off to the side.I guess it was an hour or so later that I was jolted out of my sleep by something growling, tossing me about and rolling me around. I am completly wrapped up in the pauncho and cannot see a thing,but I'm punching, hollering ( probably it was more like screaming). I landed a few good ones and then I started to hear " Vince,it's me. it's me stop".Damn young kids.So after I get untangled, he's lauging his head off but has a good strawberry on his cheek and a bloody lip. He tells everyone that he knew in MO about his really good practical joke.

The next year he comes out again.After a few days,I stay in camp and fix things up. I took a road flare that had no markings and stuck about 10" of cannon fuse in it. When he went to bed, the two other guys limbered up the VCRs and we sneaked into the tent.I yelled to wake him and then tossed the lit fused flare at his bunk and told him that it was a 10 second fuse and he best get his ass in gear. He came up and out of the tent like do-do thru a goose and heaved that flare a good 50 yards.We stood there laughing.Pay backs a bitch.He did not come hunting out again,but later relayed to the two other guys that he thought I was a mean SOB. That same hunt, my buddy killed a nice 7x7 bull and I tagged a silver phase black bear that got on the gut pile.

Three years ago, working down a draw ,I jumped a bear that just ambled off and sat on a log watching me,.No bear tag then but we had a nice visit.

This past year during 2nd rifle season and big brown phase bear came up the trail I had walked in on with it's nose to my tracks.It came about 50 yards from me and then veered off into timber and left.The next day,it got on the front quarters of an elk I still had to pack out,but did't get much meat. I found out later that it had got on a nice 6x bull a hunter had hung up and got off with a full hind quarter that it pulled out of a tree.

Sounds interesting...please explain / describe what that is:"I also sometimes carry and sleep with my Merkel drilling, 12-12-9.3x74R, with two Brennekes and a 286 NP at 2400. This, actually, if you are familiar with it, a VERY important point, is about as "good" a bear defence gun as exists."

Thanks...

Browning BAR .338 w/300gr. Woodleigh Weldcore JSP

nothing walking can survive a single well placed hit from that rifle , I own one and generally load the 250 hornadys, so having three more of those 300 grain in reserve that could be nearly instantly placed on an advancing bear would certainly make me feel well armed

The 45-70 with a heavy hard cast bullets will penetrate even the largest Bear stem to stern,also,in penetration test done by a major ammunition maker::::

The 300 grain Nosler PP out of the 45-70 out penetrated the 300 grain Nosler Partiton from the 375 H&H in wet print.

Jayco

Well, having owned three .45-70s and seven .375H&H rifles, with none of the former and two of the latter in my safes now and some 35 years experience with these two rounds and the bullets mentioned-the .458-300 not as long- I kinda doubt that it is equal to the .375-300NP.

I do not put much faith in rigged tests of bullets intended for dangerous game defence/hunting where said bullets are fired into an inert medium. I have no quarrel with those who do, this is just my opinion based on some experience.

To the above: A "drilling" is a three-barreled gun, with, usually, two shotgun barrels above a rifle barrel. There are, usually, two triggers, a separate rifle cocking piece and iron sights plus a QD scope system.

Mine is capable of putting two 1oz. Brenneke slugs and one 286-.366 cal. NP into about 1-2" at 25M. This is a formidable defence weapon, IF repeat IF, you PRACTICE and become TOTALLY familiar with it. The disadvantages are relative fragility, costly maintenance as you DO NOT "fieldstrip" one of these as one would a Mod. 70 and VERY high cost, even used. A decent drilling like mine sells for $4500.00-$7000.00 here in Canada and new would be $12-15K, at least.

I love combo. guns as we can hunt several species of big game plus various birds legally during our long seasons and I have had three and done well with them. But, this is not my first choice for bear defence and I have 30+ big game bolt rifles, all of which I have 3-pos. safeties on which I feel are a better choice.

There is, IMHO, FAR TOO MUCH palaver about the "best" cartridge, bullet(s) and even rifle type. MANY ordinary rifles with Nosler Pt. bullets WILL DO JUST FINE. The .30-06 is a fine choice and the largest Grizzly I can recall seeing killed was with an '06-180 KKSP almost 50 years ago.

I consider the .338WM-250 NP the be as close to "perfect" for BC bear work and I almost always carry one when backpack hunting, old and a bit gimpy as I am. I have never had to use it, but, I am cautious and have faith in this round-bullet, based on through shots on Elk and so on.

FAMILIARITY and being able to SHOOT is what really matter and also using your head to AVOID sudden encounters as most Grizzlies I have encountered were swiftly buggering off and that was just fine with me. Being 75+ miles into roadless wilderness, alone for three months without break and only one flyin supply trip in northern BC forty years ago when if you got hurt, you died, makes a man VERY careful and non-macho where bears are concerned.

This forum reminds me of something an oldtimer told me when I was about 18. I was in Cy's gun shop in Kodiak city. I asked the guy behind the counter if he trusted a .357 for bear defense. He said "Well, if you buy a .357 you need to grind off the front sight" I asked "why, why would I need to do that?" He said "so when one of these big Kodiak brownies gets ahold of it, it wont hurt when he shoves it up your a**." LOL

"Well, having owned three .45-70s and seven .375H&H rifles, with none of the former and two of the latter in my safes now and some 35 years experience with these two rounds and the bullets mentioned-the .458-300 not as long- I kinda doubt that it is equal to the .375-300NP.

I do not put much faith in rigged tests of bullets intended for dangerous game defence/hunting where said bullets are fired into an inert medium. I have no quarrel with those who do, this is just my opinion based on some experience.

To the above: A "drilling" is a three-barreled gun, with, usually, two shotgun barrels above a rifle barrel. There are, usually, two triggers, a separate rifle cocking piece and iron sights plus a QD scope system.

Mine is capable of putting two 1oz. Brenneke slugs and one 286-.366 cal. NP into about 1-2" at 25M. This is a formidable defence weapon, IF repeat IF, you PRACTICE and become TOTALLY familiar with it. The disadvantages are relative fragility, costly maintenance as you DO NOT "fieldstrip" one of these as one would a Mod. 70 and VERY high cost, even used. A decent drilling like mine sells for $4500.00-$7000.00 here in Canada and new would be $12-15K, at least.

I love combo. guns as we can hunt several species of big game plus various birds legally during our long seasons and I have had three and done well with them. But, this is not my first choice for bear defence and I have 30+ big game bolt rifles, all of which I have 3-pos. safeties on which I feel are a better choice.

There is, IMHO, FAR TOO MUCH palaver about the "best" cartridge, bullet(s) and even rifle type. MANY ordinary rifles with Nosler Pt. bullets WILL DO JUST FINE. The .30-06 is a fine choice and the largest Grizzly I can recall seeing killed was with an '06-180 KKSP almost 50 years ago.

I consider the .338WM-250 NP the be as close to "perfect" for BC bear work and I almost always carry one when backpack hunting, old and a bit gimpy as I am. I have never had to use it, but, I am cautious and have faith in this round-bullet, based on through shots on Elk and so on.

FAMILIARITY and being able to SHOOT is what really matter and also using your head to AVOID sudden encounters as most Grizzlies I have encountered were swiftly buggering off and that was just fine with me. Being 75+ miles into roadless wilderness, alone for three months without break and only one flyin supply trip in northern BC forty years ago when if you got hurt, you died, makes a man VERY careful and non-macho where bears are concerned."

So do you feel the .338 Win. Mag in a bolt or BAR is a better charge stopper than a lever 45-70?

If you can't get the job done with this rifle, it probably isn't the rifle's fault.



This 7 foot bear was a one shot instant kill at 246 yards: 45-70, 350 North Fork.



This young boar was killed (DLP) after seven shots on two occasions, both after midnight, failed to deter his attempts to insert himself into our cabin.



This is the slug that failed to stop him, but made him sick enough to trot off and lie down. Two shots from a 45 Colt Carbine finished him, but exited after making longer tracks through his body; both hard 300 grainers.