24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
K
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
K
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
000shot, I don't know, as I have not had to stop the hordes of rampaging, savage Grizzlies that some seem to encounter. I have found, that for ME, the CRF bolt rifles just feel and shoot better and the cartridge-bullet combos I use have been proven in many situations worldwide in stopping large animals from terminating humans.

I have owned a lot of rifles, these include two Savage 99s, several Win. 94s, a Win. 71, a Win. P-64 Mod. 88, two Marlin 1894CS-,357s, a Marlin 336-.44Mag., a Win Mod. 64 and a Sako Finnwolf, second type as well as a Belgian BLR. I have loaded for most of these, shot them and hunted with most of them. I just cannot do as well with any lever rifle as I can (barely) with the Mod. 70 controls and bolt rifle balance....others are, as I have seen several times, different in this respect.

I also carried 870s, a Win. 97 and have a Benelli Nova with Brennekes and a Browning-Miroku Mod 7500-.308x12 ga. and I still feel best with a bolt rifle. If, I were to return to remote BC bush work alone, I would just use a .338 or 9.3 and call it good.

In seven mountain fire lookouts encompassing a few years of solo bush work in Grizzly counry, ie, just east of Jasper National Park in Alberta, on the BC-AK border, in the Kootenays and so forth, I never once had to shoot a bear. In my time supervising silviculture and wildfire crews, I also never had to do so and, frankly, I am of the caution and preparation school where any bush work-recreation issues are concerned.

I do not care for autoloading guns, I have had quite a few and have a few still, but, I just tend to use what I can handle best and am satisfied with what I now have. So, that is all I can contribute as I am retired and do not expect to work in the weeds again.

GB1

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,349
Likes: 34
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,349
Likes: 34
Originally Posted by 000shot
Sounds interesting...please explain / describe what that is:"I also sometimes carry and sleep with my Merkel drilling, 12-12-9.3x74R, with two Brennekes and a 286 NP at 2400. This, actually, if you are familiar with it, a VERY important point, is about as "good" a bear defence gun as exists."

Thanks...


Drilling muzzle

[Linked Image]


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,700
Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,700
Likes: 4
I've used the Brennekes plenty enough times for DLP kills that it's generally my first choice especially at night.
The Garrett would be okay too. One of the guys I work with has used Garretts on DLPs too, but you don't need the 540gr load. The 430s work just fine and he actually uses a handloaded 405gr GC load over a healthy dose of H322 these days.


[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]

Z
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
B
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
So you have had to stop a grizzly or Brown charge and used the Brenneke to good effect?
Which Brenneke...I was considering the 3" Black Magic if I took my Benelli?
Would feel fine with my Marlin 1895SBL w/ Garretts , Grizzly, Buffalo Bore, CorBon, DoubleTap...but not sure yet if I could followup as quick as with the SG?
Time and several hundreds of rounds will tell?

How many DLP's have you been part of & why...if you don't mind me asking?
What is it you do....again, if I may ask?

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234
T
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234

OOOshot:

There's more than one path to enlightenment.

But if you were to ask Phil Shoemaker (458Win) about this very topic and then did everything he advised you to do, you would not be making a mistake, IMO.

- Tom

IC B2

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 27
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 27
He did ask and I said that of the choices given I would take the 338 BAR with the Marlin as second choice.


Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master Guide,
Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor
FAA Master pilot
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,349
Likes: 34
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,349
Likes: 34
Originally Posted by Klikitarik
[Linked Image]

Damn. That's a strange looking caribou.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
B
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
OOOshot:

There's more than one path to enlightenment.

But if you were to ask Phil Shoemaker (458Win) about this very topic and then did everything he advised you to do, you would not be making a mistake, IMO.

- Tom


Originally Posted by 458Win
He did ask and I said that of the choices given I would take the 338 BAR with the Marlin as second choice.


And I am considering & giving priority & extra "weight" to what Phil said...given his experience & profession...just wanted to hear from others too...
I am glad he picked, out of my list...the BAR .338 Win., just a bit surprised as up until that point I was getting (mostly in other forums...) real big bore Cal. with solid hard cast only...type of feedback?

I like the idea of a semi-auto for quick follow ups and if .338 has heavy enough or good choice of bullet "types", suitable for putting a hurt on a motivated charging bear then that is good enough for me. Ammo should be easy to find anywhere and the energy imparted, at least what I see from ballistic charts certainly puts it ahead of the 45-70 but not the Brenneke Black Magic.

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by Klikitarik
[Linked Image]

Damn. That's a strange looking caribou.


It's a reindeer, Silly!


Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,349
Likes: 34
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,349
Likes: 34
Oh, my bad. blush


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
IC B3

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
B
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
I think I read that you still carry a .458 WM bolt...I know I did not have that on my list in my OP:
MarlinSBL 45-70 w/Garretts 540gr. SuperHardCast gas-checked Hammerhead
Benelli M4 H2O w/Brenneke Black Magic Slug
Browning BAR .338 w/300gr. Woodleigh Weldcore JSP
Ar15/M4 .458 SOCOM w/405gr. CORBON Self-Defense JSP

...can I ask you why you chose the .458, given that as a hunting round it is more considered a Safari / Big 5 round and overkill for anything in N.A.?
Is it that you think anything under .458 is iffy for Grizzly / Brown bear (defense, not hunting)


Last edited by 000shot; 03/22/12.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335
my god man

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
B
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
What...???

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 105
W
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
W
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 105
Originally Posted by kutenay
000shot, I don't know, as I have not had to stop the hordes of rampaging, savage Grizzlies that some seem to encounter. I have found, that for ME, the CRF bolt rifles just feel and shoot better and the cartridge-bullet combos I use have been proven in many situations worldwide in stopping large animals from terminating humans.

I have owned a lot of rifles, these include two Savage 99s, several Win. 94s, a Win. 71, a Win. P-64 Mod. 88, two Marlin 1894CS-,357s, a Marlin 336-.44Mag., a Win Mod. 64 and a Sako Finnwolf, second type as well as a Belgian BLR. I have loaded for most of these, shot them and hunted with most of them. I just cannot do as well with any lever rifle as I can (barely) with the Mod. 70 controls and bolt rifle balance....others are, as I have seen several times, different in this respect.

I also carried 870s, a Win. 97 and have a Benelli Nova with Brennekes and a Browning-Miroku Mod 7500-.308x12 ga. and I still feel best with a bolt rifle. If, I were to return to remote BC bush work alone, I would just use a .338 or 9.3 and call it good.

In seven mountain fire lookouts encompassing a few years of solo bush work in Grizzly counry, ie, just east of Jasper National Park in Alberta, on the BC-AK border, in the Kootenays and so forth, I never once had to shoot a bear. In my time supervising silviculture and wildfire crews, I also never had to do so and, frankly, I am of the caution and preparation school where any bush work-recreation issues are concerned.

I do not care for autoloading guns, I have had quite a few and have a few still, but, I just tend to use what I can handle best and am satisfied with what I now have. So, that is all I can contribute as I am retired and do not expect to work in the weeds again.


[Linked Image]
Please keep these liars north of the border. The wilds of downtown Vancouver is good.
Dewey will your lies never end?

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
B
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
was that your post...or repeating another?

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,337
K
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
K
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,337
Just learn bear.

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
E
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
E
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
Originally Posted by 458Win
He did ask and I said that of the choices given I would take the 338 BAR with the Marlin as second choice.
Phil, I just wonder what you think would happen if a bear got close and it was tasered. Some places I hunt do not allow firearms in archery season. thanks


The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.

If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
B
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by eyeball
Originally Posted by 458Win
He did ask and I said that of the choices given I would take the 338 BAR with the Marlin as second choice.
Phil, I just wonder what you think would happen if a bear got close and it was tasered. Some places I hunt do not allow firearms in archery season. thanks


Maybe if you used a high tension power line, ol...
...kidding.
I am still looking forward to hear from Phil...on why he chose the .458 WM for his BUG? He told me from the list in my OP...he would take the BAR in .338 WM 1st, then the Marlin 45-70 2nd. I had the .458 on my list, but as a SOCOM AR

Last edited by 000shot; 03/24/12.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Phil, and other folks who guide bear hunters, spend part of their time doing follow-up work on wounded bears. Their's can be a task of 1-3 seconds (or more) of high drama with plenty of uncertainty and stress, but high alert status, woven throughout. One's ideal weapon in that situation isn't necessarily the most ideal for being out and about in bear country. Perhaps the more important attribute of the 'out and about' bear weapon IMO&E is it's friendliness for carry and handling when not on 'high alert'. ('Cause no sane person stays on high alert for long periods effectively without that being/becoming a full-time job.)

In my neck of the woods, a dangerous bear encounter is either most probably going to be one with virtually no warning (unlikely), or it will be one where you are aware of the situation, often rather benign, for some time before it turns dangerous or deadly. Paying attention to one's surroundings, knowing what to look for (and how), but especially listening, and smelling, something that becomes almost second nature through time and exposure, can be useful in avoiding surprises. Looking for trouble out of ignorance is never great way to reach one's 'golden years.'


Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
B
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by Klikitarik
Phil, and other folks who guide bear hunters, spend part of their time doing follow-up work on wounded bears. Their's can be a task of 1-3 seconds (or more) of high drama with plenty of uncertainty and stress, but high alert status, woven throughout. One's ideal weapon in that situation isn't necessarily the most ideal for being out and about in bear country. Perhaps the more important attribute of the 'out and about' bear weapon IMO&E is it's friendliness for carry and handling when not on 'high alert'. ('Cause no sane person stays on high alert for long periods effectively without that being/becoming a full-time job.)

In my neck of the woods, a dangerous bear encounter is either most probably going to be one with virtually no warning (unlikely), or it will be one where you are aware of the situation, often rather benign, for some time before it turns dangerous or deadly. Paying attention to one's surroundings, knowing what to look for (and how), but especially listening, and smelling, something that becomes almost second nature through time and exposure, can be useful in avoiding surprises. Looking for trouble out of ignorance is never great way to reach one's 'golden years.'


Sounds like sound advice from someone close to it.Thanks.

Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

475 members (1234, 1badf350, 17CalFan, 10Glocks, 163bc, 12344mag, 38 invisible), 2,348 guests, and 1,080 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,194,455
Posts18,529,062
Members74,033
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.164s Queries: 55 (0.029s) Memory: 0.9118 MB (Peak: 1.0305 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-22 12:51:12 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS