Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Bear Defense...

Thanks. I would normally think the BAR in 338 real nice, but I saw one, in great condition, in 30-06 jam for no apparent reason that I could determine.

hmmm...well any gun can jam any time...but may take less time to clear a jam in a manual action bolt/lever...I will compare when I get my BAR?

[/quote] Phil, I just wonder what you think would happen if a bear got close and it was tasered. Some places I hunt do not allow firearms in archery season. thanks [/quote]

I don't go where firearms are not allowed, weather in the woods or town. Two or four legged predators.

Marlin 45-70 would be my first and only choice from your list, there's not a semi-auto made by man that I would trust with my life.

My personal choice Winchester Model 70 CRF 50 B&M Super Short with Cutting Edge BBW#13 375 gr. at 2100 fps. with a 16" barrel.

I have worked in SE Alaska and used to see bears everyday. I have 60 encounters I wrote down once, and many more that I can't recall. The responses on this thread are way ahead of others out there. The biggest caliber you can accurately shoot with bullets that will hold together is the simple answer. You cannot be overgunned when a bear with a hump closes on you full of adrenaline. A .45-70 loaded up is a good choice for some people. I like the large caliber handguns like .454 Casull and up because they are always on your person even if you are fishing. Avoiding bears is the important skill to learn. Make noise in deep brush, don't camp on a sand bar covered with tracks, don't sleep with your food etc. I was sleeping in Alberta once and woke with a sow black bear 8 inches from my head with nothing between us but mosquito netting. I know it was a sow because she came back later with 2 cubs and did it again.

This is one of my favorite stories of the 45-70 on Coastal Brown Bears by a Master Guide in Alaska and African LPH.....



Mr. Garrett, I am a Master Guide in Alaska and a Licensed Professional Hunter in Africa. I have made a full time living as guide since 1975 and have over the years tested the bullets from every major bullet maker and from most of the custom bullet makers. I chose to use your 45-70 ammo because it is by far the best. I do not believe that any better load exists to go into thick brush after a wounded Grizzly.

When my 8 year old son (Jason) decided that he wanted to hunt Grizzly with me on the Alaska Peninsula I was pleased as he had decided this on his own with no prompting from me. (I do not believe in pushing kids into doing what the parents do) This became a goal that the two of us shared together as a father and son team. Over 9 months we prepared for his hunt. Lots of target practice for him with a 22. We spent last winter cross country skiing and practicing shooting from a variety of real life field conditions.

I had unlimited choices of rifles and calibers that my son could use. I have custom rifles in medium and big bore up to 470 Nitro. We also have friends with custom rifles made for kids that wanted to loan some very fine rifles to Jason. We decided on Jason using a factory rifle, the Marlin Guide Rifle in 45-70. The only modifications that were made was installation of peep sights, 2" cut off the stock and a decelerator pad installed. Dry fire practice and getting into kneeling and prone positions was the first thing Jason worked on with the 45-70. After he was proficient at that I let him fire a few factory 405 gr. loads from a kneeling position. I needed to see if he could handled the recoil. Jason did okay but it was too much for him to practice with. After that I only let him used the rifle with a 45 ACP adapter made by MCA Sports. This adapter let him shoot 45 pistol ammo and practice a lot so he did not develop a flinch. We never used a bullseye target for his practice. We used a paper archery target of a life sized grizzly standing broad side. No aiming point to see so he had to learn to target on the shoulder himself.

The end result is that 9 year old Jason shot a beautiful 8' 7" Grizzly with your 45-70 ammo. From 45 yards the 540 gr. bullet struck the bear broadside in the left shoulder. Breaking the shoulder, going through the rib cage on both sides and breaking the right shoulder, then exiting the bear. This was a devastating blow to a tough animal. The bear made one jump when hit then collapsed dead 18 feet from where he was standing.

Thank you for making the excellent ammo that helped make my son's hunt a success.

- Jerry XXXXXXX

Jayco

Here is another to the testament of the 45-70 with my friend Randy Garrett and his ammo and stopping the charge....



"This grizzly was killed in Spatsizi Plateau Wilderness Park in the Eagle Nest Mountain Range of Northern British Columbia. He squared over 8 feet and the skull measured 23 13/16'', which is very good size for an interior mountain grizzly bear. When I shot the bear, he had started a charge from about 70 yards away, and by the time I had a sight on him, he was 40 yards. The 540 Hammerhead hit him right between the front legs, and he did a complete front-wards flip after the bullet hit him. That bullet completely penetrated him lengthwise and exited. I made a follow up shot (which was unnecessary, just instinct) after he rolled which angled through the chest, took out a section of spine, and exited the top of his skull (if you look closely at the photo you can see the exit hole in his head). Very impressive bullet performance."

- Tyler XXXXX, British Columbia

Jayco

logcutter,
Nice job of documenting what happens in real life. Do you think those shot could be made again?
What if the charge starts at 30 yards like the typical situation in SE? I still think more is better.

I think so without worry..A couple more Bear kills with Garrett 45-70 ammo.







Jayco

I do have a couple boxes of Buffalo Bore 350 grain Speers at 2150 fps but never shot Grizzly ammo...

The difference is,Marlin Firearms stood behind Garrett ammunition in there 45-70's as the SAAMI for the 45-70 is 28,000 and Garretts are just over that..Buffalo Bore and Grizzly have way/way higher pressures than Garretts.I have seen the numbers but won't repeat it.

Naw,Randy is just a good friend.

Jayco

WOW! That bear's head is bigger than your torso!

I carried a .444 Marlin years ago because that is what I had. After doing some research it is obvious you guys are on to something. Thanks for the great posts. Lately I have been carrying my great uncles Model 71 in .348. What do think of those guns compared to your new heavy loads for the .45-70?

I don't know how that compares...but I think I have settled on for hunting w/scope
I will go with .338 BAR and for defense or backing up another hunter the largest bore I can shoot like the 45-70 or a downloaded .458 WM.

I doubt that's a picture of him.

ppine -

A few years back some gunwriter wrote about how a Marlin .45-70 drove a hardcast (Garrett Hammerhead, I think) completely through TWO cape buffalo. How much "more" do you need?

That writer was Brian Pearce. I've talked with him several times at the Boise Gun Shows and he told me that he could not see the second Cape Buffalo behind the first. That's how the bullet went through the first and also killed the second.

L.W.

I wish I had the rest of the article.



Jayco

I think bear defense is about shutting down the run and then getting to Cutler


oh, those bears


use enough gun, practice with it enough that it becomes second nature to you.

for hunting bears I used a mod 700 in .338 with a Leupy 1.75x6 and Barnes 225 gr. TBB

for hunting someone elses bear in thick brush I used the Marlin(customized by WWG) in .45/70 with .405 gr. hard cast bullets

I;ve never felt under gunned, until I was sneaking through alders looking for wounded bears.....in those moments you really wonder why you've never purchased a .500 H&H, they seem really inexpensive at those times and it seems a no brainer that everyone should own one....... for a few minutes anyway.

logcutter,
Thanks for the heads up on the new loads available for the .45-70. It was very enlightening to get up to date on what is available. I found hot loads for the .348, .30-06, and .44 mag also. The .45-70 is becoming popular in Africa and rightly so.

I have had to stop them with my 30-06 and it works as well now as it has for the past 100 years.



And I have used a number of other cartridges as well but my favorite is still my 458