Great part about this fine country we live in is that everybody can do what they want.
Me, I want a traditional funeral just like my family that has gone before me (hopefully not for a while though). Embalming, hardwood casket, visitation, crying, flowers, burial in a real cemetary, headstone, the whole shebang.
For those loking to save that almighty dollar and don't care about visitation with the body present, body donation is always an option. Medical science is always taking donations. They'll even take just parts if you want. Especially if you have something weird wrong with you...
Cremation, not for me. Something about getting burnt up and then the remaining big bones run through a grinder so they are scatterable dosen't fit well for me.. It isn't as peaceful as some envision.....
"Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft." T. Roosevelt
Two members of the same family that used to be part of our hunting group were cremated. One had his ashes scattered on "the big hill", & the other around our camp with a good portion being dumped in the campfire pit.
As for myself, I don't care...I'd just as soon be dumped somewhere the critters could get at me...I ain't gonna know & ain't gonna care...
There are strange things done in the midnight sun By the men who moil for gold; The Arctic trails have their secret tales That would make your blood run cold; The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, But the queerest they ever did see Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge I cremated Sam McGee.
Now Sam McGee was from Tennessee, where the cotton blooms and blows. Why he left his home in the South to roam 'round the Pole, God only knows. He was always cold, but the land of gold seemed to hold him like a spell; Though he'd often say in his homely way that he'd �sooner live in hell.�
On a Christmas Day we were mushing our way over the Dawson Trail. Talk of your cold! through the parka's fold it stabbed like a frozen nail. If our eyes we'd close, then the lashes froze till sometimes we couldn't see; It wasn't much fun, but the only one to whimper was Sam McGee.
And that very night, as we lay packed tight in our robes beneath the snow, And the dogs were fed, and the stars o'erhead were dancing heel and toe, He turned to me, and �Cap,� says he, �I'll cash in this trip, I guess; If I do, I'm asking that you won't refuse my last request.�
Well, he seemed so low that I couldn't say no; then he says with a sort of moan: �It's the cursed cold, and it's got right hold till I'm chilled clean through to the bone. Yet 'tain't being dead - - it's my awful dread of the icy grave that pains; So I want you to swear that, foul or fair, you'll cremate my last remains.�
A pal's last need is a thing to heed, so I swore I would not fail; And we started on at the streak of dawn; but God! he looked ghastly pale. He crouched on the sleigh, and he raved all day of his home in Tennessee; And before nightfall a corpse was all that was left of Sam McGee.
There wasn't a breath in that land of death, and I hurried, horror-driven, With a corpse half-hid that I couldn't get rid, because of a promise given; It was lashed to the sleigh, and it seemed to say: �You must tax your brawn and brains, But you promised true, and it's up to you to cremate these last remains.�
Now a promise made is a debt unpaid, and the trail has its own stern code. In the days to come, though my lips were dumb, in my heart how I cursed that load. In the long, long night, by the lone firelight, while the huskies, round in a ring, Howled out their woes to the homeless snows - - O God! how I loathed the thing.
And every day that quiet clay seemed to heavier and heavier grow; And on I went, though the dogs were spent and the grub was getting low; The trail was bad, and I felt half mad, but I swore I would not give in; And I'd often sing to the hateful thing, and it hearkened with a grin.
Till I came to the marge of Lake Lebarge, and there a derelict lay; It was jammed in the ice, but I saw in a trice it was called the �Alice May.� And I looked at it, and I thought a bit, and I looked at my frozen chum; Then �Here,� said I, with a sudden cry, �is my cre-ma-tor-eum.�
Some planks I tore from the cabin floor, and I lit the boiler fire; Some coal I found that was lying around, and I heaped the fuel higher; The flames just soared, and the furnace roared - - such a blaze you seldom see; And I burrowed a hole in the glowing coal, and I stuffed in Sam McGee.
Then I made a hike, for I didn't like to hear him sizzle so; And the heavens scowled, and the huskies howled, and the wind began to blow. I was icy cold, but the hot sweat rolled down my cheeks, and I don't know why; And the greasy smoke in an inky cloak went streaking down the sky.
I do not know how long in the snow I wrestled with grisly fear; But the stars came out and they danced about ere again I ventured near; I was sick with dread, but I bravely said, �I'll just take a peep inside. I guess he's cooked, and it's time I looked;� ... then the door I opened wide.
And there sat Sam, looking cool and calm, in the heart of the furnace roar; And he wore a smile you could see a mile, and he said: �Please close that door. It's fine in here, but I greatly fear you'll let in the cold and storm - - Since I left Plumtree, down in Tennessee, it's the first time I've been warm.�
There are strange things done in the midnight sun By the men who moil for gold; The Arctic trails have their secret tales That would make your blood run cold; The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, But the queerest they ever did see Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge I cremated Sam McGee.
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
Doesn't wierd me out. I'll be dead so it won't matter much to me.
That's the way I feel about it. Funerals are for the living. The service, in whatever form it takes, whether big or small, elaborate or simple, is an opportunity for the family to pay respects, say good bye, and find some closure and comfort.
Based on my faith I believe that when I am dead my priorities will have changed so radically that the manner of the disposal of my remains will be of little consequence. I have told my family that I would prefer that they deal with it in as simple and inexpensive manner as possible, but they are free to conduct the arrangements in a way that is comfortable, and comforting, to them.
===================== Boots were made for walking Winds were blowing change Boys fall in the jungle As I Came of Age
I am a Christian as we're my parents, who were cremated which troubled me.
I consider cremation to be a pagan practice (historically is is the case) and given the centrality of the bodily resurrection to our religion I view it's relatively recent prevalence in Christian practice to be problematic. Christ arose bodily and not just 'Spiritually', and said (I quote these words of His more often than any others!) "Have you anything to eat?"
I am a Christian as we're my parents, who were cremated which troubled me.
I consider cremation to be a pagan practice (historically is is the case) and given the centrality of the bodily resurrection to our religion I view it's relatively recent prevalence in Christian practice to be problematic. Christ arose bodily and not just 'Spiritually', and said (I quote these words of His more often than any others!) "Have you anything to eat?"
It bugs me from that standpoint as well as because my grandfather witnessed firsthand Nazi atrocities as a POW. Yes, we'll be dead, but it seems very industrial and final to burn the body and run the unburnt bones through a garbage disposal. Kind of like Rome salting the earth where Carthage had stood.
There has been a big movement to make it appeal to Christians but I kind of feel, as you do, that cremation is at odds with bodily resurrection.
Modern embalming discards some body parts, so the embalmed body is not the entire original body.
A body buried without embalming rots.
If a rotted or taxidermed body can be resurrected and restored to its original form, why not burnt bodies?
Jesus isn't a logical example. He wasn't embalmed, and he wasn't dead long enough to rot.
Will our resurrected bodies be subject to everything from cancer to scoliosis? I think not. I expect 'em to be new in every way, without flaw or deterioration.
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
Here are some passages that I believe are worth considering in regards to the resurrection.
From 1 Cor. 15 in Paul's defense of the resurrection:
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But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?" (1 Corinthians 15:35)
Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. (1 Corinthians 15:36)
And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain--perhaps wheat or some other grain. (1 Corinthians 15:37)
But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. (1 Corinthians 15:38)
All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. (1 Corinthians 15:39)
There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. (1 Corinthians 15:40)
There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. (1 Corinthians 15:41)
So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. (1 Corinthians 15:42)
It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. (1 Corinthians 15:43)
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:44)
And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:45)
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:46)
The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:47)
As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. (1 Corinthians 15:48)
And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. (1 Corinthians 15:49)
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. (1 Corinthians 15:50)
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- (1 Corinthians 15:51)
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15:52)
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:53)
So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Corinthians 15:54)
"O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" (1 Corinthians 15:55)
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. (1 Corinthians 15:56)
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:57)
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord. (1 Corinthians 15:58)
What I believe is important to see in this passage is that the bodies that we will occupy in the resurrection are described as spiritual and incorruptible (lit. not subject to decay). I believe that Paul is teaching us that in the resurrection we will not be given back our old, physical bodies. Instead we will be raised in bodies that are incorruptible, spiritual, and suitable for our eternal home in Heaven with the Father.
Consider also Peter's words in 2 Peter 3:
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But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)
Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, (2 Peter 3:11)
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? (2 Peter 3:12)
When the Lord comes again the physical realm will cease to exist. A physical body would be of little value.
===================== Boots were made for walking Winds were blowing change Boys fall in the jungle As I Came of Age
When the dead are raised, though, do they just spring up from where they were left? Will people just appear? For example, those lost at sea, or vaporized during wartime, etc., etc.
I told my wife I will be taken from where ever I am declared dead and immediately cremated. She is not to use the funds that she needs to pay some buzzard. No embalming of any kind. No casket, nothing. I'm done with the body, it is as meaningless as my "87 Chevy pick-up, and I don't care where that ended up.
And I don't care about the ashes either. Flush them down the toilet as far as I'm concerned. I'm dead, I'm not there anymore.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
When the dead are raised, though, do they just spring up from where they were left? Will people just appear? For example, those lost at sea, or vaporized during wartime, etc., etc.
Interesting.
Some other passages that may help:
From 1 Thess. 4. Note especially verse 14:
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For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. (1 Thessalonians 4:14)
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. (1 Thessalonians 4:15)
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thessalonians 4:16)
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
Therefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)
I can tell you what I picture in my mind based on the passages I have studied. The dead are already in the spiritual realm (see the parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16). At the resurrection we know that the dead will be raised first. Will the spirit have to return to the location of its former body? I don't believe so. Since we will be given a spiritual body in the resurrection it would server no purpose. The dead will be given their spiritual bodies and will appear in the heavens with the Lord when He returns on the last day.
===================== Boots were made for walking Winds were blowing change Boys fall in the jungle As I Came of Age
Modern embalming discards some body parts, so the embalmed body is not the entire original body.
A body buried without embalming rots.
If a rotted or taxidermed body can be resurrected and restored to its original form, why not burnt bodies?
Jesus isn't a logical example. He wasn't embalmed, and he wasn't dead long enough to rot.
Will our resurrected bodies be subject to everything from cancer to scoliosis? I think not. I expect 'em to be new in every way, without flaw or deterioration.
You're correct here but missed my point due to my lack of clarity. Clearly our resurrected bodies will be, as scoutmaster Rick points out, different from our present bodies... Incorruptible for one thing. But they will be physical bodies just as Christ, the first fruits of the resurrection, had a physical one. There will be a new heavens and new (physical) earth for us to occupy and enjoy as we 'glorify God and enjoy Him forever' as we were created to do.
From my perspective there is a gnostic tendency pervasive in much of th Church today which denies the centrality of the goodness of the creation as created and the place which all of it has in God's eternal plan. This is seen in the acceptance of the practice of cremation by the Church.
Modern embalming discards some body parts, so the embalmed body is not the entire original body.
Those parts are?
The blood, of course � drained and replaced by some injected form of formaldehyde.
Specific internal organs and their fluids? I can not say.
The blood is replaced with embalming solution (a mix of embalming fluid, water, dyes and conditioners), the internal organs are perforated, drained of fluid and preserved with cavity fluid (another type of high strength embalming fluid). No "organs" are removed (other than blood and fluids). 2 incisions, neck and stomach area.
"Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft." T. Roosevelt
