Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Is the Boy Scout program ready to fall?

Depends on what you mean by being involved in girl scouts. If you mean men taking teenage girls camping in a remote area, then no, they shouldn't be involved. And of course not ALL men are a problem even if they are attracted to teenage girls, but some percentage would be a threat and no one wants to take that chance.



And since time immemorial there has been hanky panky between adults and adolescents, but it was much easier for adults in authority to get away with such behavior in the past. Are you suggesting we go back to that time?



If you're saying many gay men are not attracted to teenage boys then you don't know what you are talking about or you're blowing smoke. Gays aren't fooling anyone with their distractions about not being attracted to young children and how bad heterosexual men are, the issue is gays getting access to adolescent boys.

Yep you don't give criminals access to money for the same reasons. Anyone saying anything else has swallowed the BS or is part of the problem.

The BSA will eventually cave in to the homosexual issue just as they have caved in to the female Scout Masters.

I say this all the time to anyone who will listen;

"We (adult male leaders) are not here to teach our boys how to go camping. We are here to teach them how to be good men."

How are female Scout masters going to do that?

Straight, male role models are increasingly being removed from the lives of our children.

I know that homosexuals are not necessarily pedophiles but I do not want my boys to have homosexual role models, [bleep] men or butchy women.

Yes, the BSA has been moving away from traditional values. It has also become overly inclusive and lowered the standards on many of it's advancement requirements.

This past winter I had to sign off on the fire building requirement for several young Scouts.

I'd bet most of you remember passing your fire starting test when you were a boy scout. If you were like me you had to build your cooking fire and light it using only one match. Remember?

Not any more.

My oldest sons Scout book list the fire building requirement for second class Scouts as "prepare tender, kindling, and fuel for a cooking fire. Light the cooking fire."

My youngest sons book reads; "demonstrate how to light a fire and a lightweight stove".

The current requirement reads "demonstrate how to build a cooking fire. It is not necessary to actually light the fire to fulfill this requirement."

Can you believe that? They removed the opportunity for the boys to fail, learn from their mistakes, try again, and succeed. Yes I had to sign off that those boys can build a fire. Can they? Who knows? And the worst thing is, those boys don't know if they can really make a fire if their life depended on it.

That's only one example. I could write a book full of others.

As a matter of fact, I think I will...

Great post prairedogshooter.

I am an Eagle Scout and am rabidly opposed to homosexual leaders or Scouts. This is in no small part due to a merit badge counselor that was in our district (no, he did not make any advances towards me). He left our area and went to work at another camp. He killed 2 boys (speculation was that he did it to cover up molestation) and dumped them in the camp's grease pit. Bastard got the death penalty, was given a new trial, and got life the 2nd time. Name is James Ross if you want to read the story.

I had girls, not boys, so Boy Scouts wasn't an issue for me, and I don't know much about it.

But suppose I were a homosexual pedophile, and I thought the Boy Scouts might be a good source of victims.

Two scenarios.

First scenario: the Boy Scouts don't allow homosexual troop leaders. I apply to be a troop leader, sign all the paperwork that states I'm not a homosexual pedophile, and proceed to victimize Boy Scouts.

Second scenario: the Boy Scouts allow homosexual troop leaders, but (of course) ban pedophiles. I apply to be a troop leader, sign all the paperwork that states I'm not a homosexual pedophile, and proceed to victimize Boy Scouts.

Mmm--I don't see much of a difference there. Do you? My take would be that finding ways to prevent homosexual pedophiles from becoming troop leaders should be much more important than fiddling with the bylaws.

I agree they shouldn't fiddle with bylaws.

They should say, "Hey, this is a stupid idea. Let's not do it.". Then move on. It'd take me about two minutes to get past this whole issue.

thank god this isnt about california


dont think i could stand another one of those threads

Like it or not, the LDS church is the largest supporter of Boy Scouts. Gays get in, the church will get out, and I doubt the scouting program could survive. The majority of the rest of the scouters are no more likely to stay, leaving such a small block of "enlightened" people to carry on with their distorted concept of what is acceptable...result, Boy Scouts RIP...

The BSA does operate by "The Golden Rule". Those who donate the gold, make the rules

Better for BSA to RIP than become a recruiting pool and dating service for gays.

Having been a rifle instructor for many, many years...
and seeing my own son through his Scout years..
I say :
I would rather see the BSA fold than fold to this issue.

I know several gays. Co-workers and others.
But there is no way I want them to "lead" our youth.

There is a place for all.
Just not together.

I'm not interested in perpetuating a non-argument... but I am unable to find any logical connection whatsoever between my statement and your reply.

I have stated TWICE now that, except to homophobes, who by definition are not capable of rational thought or reasoning about anything to do with homosexuality, the sexual orientation of a scoutmaster is NOT THE PROBLEM.

GIVING PEDOPHILES ACCESS to kids IS the problem.

As long as you're obsessed with the sexuality of scoutmasters, you are wasting energy and resources that could and should be directed toward finding out who the pedophiles are and getting them the hell out of the BSA, the schools, and kids' sports.

Doc, there's no argument here. No one can perpetuate this logically because it's all fluff now. Notice how everyone got quiet when I mentioned that none of them would have thought twice about letting their kid attend a Sandusky football camp years ago? Exactly. It's a scary problem, pedophilia, and the way to deal with it is not to run around with pitchforks.

It's obvious there's more heat than light being generated here so I'm bowing out before they start labelling us as gay rights activists or worse.

You are wise beyond your years, Grasshoppah.

I will now follow your excellent example and exit this thread my ownself.

There is a lot of misinformation posted here.I assume that a persons own perceptions of homosexuality play a big part in the information they will accept as fact.Here is some of the information I've discovered in my research of this phenomenon known as homosexuality.

Dr.Gene Abel,a sex researcher,compared the molestation rates of self-confessed homosexual and heterosexual child molesters.In a sample of 153 homosexual molesters,they confessed to a total of 22,981 molestations. This is equivalent to 150 children per molester.

Over two hundred self-admitted heterosexual molesters admitted to 4,435 molestations. This comes to 19.8 victims per molester. Dr.Abel concluded that homosexuals sexually molest young boys at a rate that is five times greater than the molestation of girls.


Here are more studies and surveys that also illustrate that homosexuals molest at a rate that is up to 500% higher than heterosexuals.

The Los Angeles Times conducted a survey in 1985 of 2,628 adults across the U.S.Of those,27% of the women and 16% of the men had been sexually molested.Seven percent of the girls and ninety-three percent of the men had been molested by adults of the same sex. This means that 40% of child molestations were committed by homosexuals. (August 25-6, 1985)

In 1984, a Vermont survey of 161 adolescents who were sex offenders found that 35 of them were homosexuals,that equals 22%. (Wasserman, J., Adolescent Sex Offenders�Vermont, 1984 Journal American Medical Association, 1986)

In 1991, of the 100 child molesters at the Massachusetts Treatment Center for Sexually Dangerous Persons,a third were heterosexual,a third were bisexual,and a third were homosexual.Dr. Raymond Knight, Differential Prevalence of Personality Disorders in Rapists and Child Molesters, Eastern Psychological Association Conference, New York, April 12, 1991.It's clear in this study that homosexuals and bi-sexual represent the majority of molesters.

Drs. Freund and Heasman of the Clark Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two studies on child molesters and calculated that 34% and 32% of the sex offenders were homosexual. In cases these doctors had handled, 36% of the molesters were homosexuals. Freund, K. "Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 1984 10:193-200)


Homosexuals make up approximately 3% of the population.It's quite clear,to those who are not attempting to promote homosexuality by posting false data,that homosexuals pose a grave threat to our children.

This new America is truly something.
Here, on a site filled largely with presumably socially conservative males, we have people actually attempting to debate whether a male, who openly professes to be sexually attracted to other males, is more of a threat in a leadership position to teenage males, either physically, emotionally, morally, (or yes spiritually for those so inclined), than a male who does not profess attraction to males?!? Dear God help us.

Yesterday I was leaving a business meeting after work and sitting in traffic on a downtown street that I've never been going slow enough on to really notice any of the businesses. Traffic was at a dead stop and I looked at my phone to see an email from this thread pop up. Interesting timing as seconds later I see this 'guy' trotting (only way to describe it) up the near side sidewalk. I immediately saw the guy and thought "gay". Then even I checked myself and thought "Am I being unfair and judgemental just because of the way the guy dresses and his physical mannerisms." That thought didn't last long as he immediately went into a business. I looked up at the sign with the rainbow logo and saw the establishment was called "The Gayborhood" Under it was the tag line "Yellow pages for the gay community" or some such. My very next thought was one short generation ago such a thing would not only have never existed but just the concept would have been laughed off as bad science fiction. Yet many if not most and surely many here would defend the existing of such an establishment and the outward expression ('pride') of unnatural sexual proclivities as actually 'progress'. Now we are debating whether homosexual men should be held up as leaders amongst the young men in the Boy Scouts? What "progress" this country has made and continues to make...

I think a considerable number of our population have drank the Kool-Aid of the homosexuals and their promoters.They have accepted the pop culture's image of homosexuality.Their public image stands in stark contrast the reality of this type of sexual deviancy.

Homosexuals suffer a much higher rate of alcoholism,drug abuse and depression compared to heterosexuals.They also commit a substantially higher rate of verbal and physical abuse in their relationships.

People who attempt to equate homosexual relations to that of heterosexual relations fail miserably to make their case.

Scouts mandate training called Child Protection.

As part of the training you are taught as a scoutmaster or scout leader that under no circumstances are you to ever be alone with a scout or allow any adult to be alone with a scout - not even a situation where you are waiting around for parents to pick up a scout and it you are there with the last scout at the end of the meeting. We are so serious about this that we don't even allow a parent to share a tent with their child during a campout.

I can't speak for any troop other than mine but we are VERY serious about enforcing this rule. No parent or any adult can attend a camp out without completing this training.

When we do go camping , no adult is allowed in a tent. As an adult, I can't even look in a scouts tent unless its a medical emergency.

All scouts must use the buddy system when going to a bathroom (or anywhere for that matter) away from camp or even a troop meeting.

We also have mandated ratios where there are adults /kids on meetings and campouts.

Also, as part of earning the scout badge, parents must discuss the child protection training with their child and sign their name to a booklet that is provided in the scout handbook.

Finally, to earn Tenderfoot, (the second rank that most scouts earn within 3 months of joining) they must have a discussion about child predators and inappropriate behavior.

Finally, as a scoutmaster I have to complete 3 different scout training activities before I earn the "trained" badge I wear. All 3 address appropriate and allowed behavior with scouts. Every 2 years ( I think) I have to retake that training.

All I can say is if your child is in my troop or any troop that adheres to the guidelines set forth by Scouting, there is virtually no chance of abuse.

I also believe that it would be difficult - not impossible but difficult for a homosexual to promote a gay agenda. Tolerance? absolutely but a pro homosexual agenda?
If it did happen, it would be the fault of the parents as much as the scout leadership.

I stated this before, but regardless of whether one is convinced homosexuals are pedophiles or not, they should NOT be scoutmasters because they are NOT good ROLE MODELs.

A Scoutmaster should approach the ideal in a male role model, and a homosexual does not measure up. A scoutmaster should be the kind of man you'd like your son to grow up to be. And while they don't take the place of the real father in a normal family, you better darn well believe they do to a degree for those boy scouts growing up in families with a male deficit.