I see the Boy Scout honchos are reviewing their policy of excluding queer scout leaders. I sure hope they have the fortitude to not give in to them. This country has all the perversion it can deal with.

Boy Scouts to review ban on gays

Published June 07, 2012

Associated Press

NEW YORK � The Boy Scouts of America will review a resolution that would allow individual units to accept gays as adult leaders, but a spokesman says there's no expectation that the ban on gay leaders will in fact be lifted any time soon.

The resolution was submitted by a Scout leader from the Northeast in April and presented last week at the Scouts' national meeting in Orlando, Fla., according to BSA spokesman Deron Smith.

Smith said Wednesday it would be referred to a subcommittee, which will then make a recommendation to the national executive board. The process would likely be completed by May 2013, according to Smith, who said there were no plans at this time to change the policy.

During last week's meeting, the Scouts were presented with a petition, bearing more than 275,000 names, protesting the ouster of a lesbian mother, Jennifer Tyrrell, who'd been serving as a Scout den mother near Bridgeport, Ohio.

Among those who presented the Change.org petition, and met with Scout officials, was Eagle Scout Zach Wahls, an Iowa college student who was raised by lesbian mothers.

Wahls, in a telephone interview, said he and his allies planned a campaign to mobilize opposition to the gay-exclusion policy from within Scout ranks, with the goal of building pressure for the resolution to be approved.

"Up to the day they end this policy, they'll be saying they have no plans to do so," Wahls said. "But there's no question it's costing the Boy Scouts in terms of membership and public support."

The Scouts, who celebrated their 100th anniversary in 2010, have had a long-standing policy of excluding gays and atheists. Controversy over the policy intensified in 2000 when the U.S. Supreme Court allowed the Scouts to maintain the policy in the face of a legal challenge.

Leaders of several regional scouting councils have asked for the policy to be scrapped or modified, to no avail.

I hope they will stick to their policy but I have my doubts..

I hope they study it very carefully.







And then stand their ground.
There is a reason why the Scout oath means anything.

They won before...1999, I believe?

I remember that we had a huge cheer at the Boy Scout Camp that I worked at when they announced it.

Sir Robert Baden-Powell must be a bit restless in his grave.

Ed

What a crock. Whatever imagined loss it's costing them is nothing compared to the real loss it will cause them should they cave. I promise you, my son will be removed from the program immediately should they change their policy. Their steadfastness to NOT give in to declining social norms is one of the MAIN reasons we are in the program to begin with. Most packs are sponsored by churches so they'll have some say in it as well.
Having said all that, they of course will cave eventually. Everyone does.

I agree 100%.

My son is showing interest in joining Cub Scouts this autumn. I'll be watching this issue closely.

Sounds like letting the fox in the chicken house.

"A man with no enemies is a man with no character." -- Paul Newman.

The same could be said for organizations such as the Boy Scouts.

I hope they don't cave.

Man, if I were a queer I'd love to be a Boy Scout leader! There would be "opportunity" all around me, all the time!
.
Just what the hell are the parents of these kids thinking if they allow this to happen? THAT is where the ball must first stop and be picked up and run with! If the parents haven't the cojones to watch out for their own kids then they should not say a word when a new generation of mud daubers comes around!
.
Anyone with a son thinking of joining this "ORGANization" should run, not walk, from it! Just take the boy hunting and fishing yourself and forget the rest of the drama!

Like politics, it's all local. My kids are beyond scouts age, but if I had a young one who wanted to be a scout I would check out the local leadership and if I was comfortable then it would be no problem.

When my kids were in it, the leaders were the same people who were the hockey coaches and baseball coaches. They had kids in the program, too. Maybe it's changed now.

In terms of being a sexual threat to boys, adult homosexual men are no more of a threat than adult heterosexual men. They're adults who have sex with other adults, and kids don't appeal to them. Pedophilia is a pschosexual disorder separate from homosexual orientation, and if you look at the statistics, more pedophiles are professed heterosexuals than homosexuals.

Pedophiles are a class unto themselves. They can profess to be homosexual or openly heterosexual in their "public" sexual orientation, but their REAL sexual orientation is children. Most pedophiles operate for years "under the radar", deceiving the adults around them while they abuse scores of kids.

So if you're concerned about pedophiles preying on kids in Boy Scouts, banning gay men and lesbians offers ZERO protection.

However, if your concern is that homosexual leaders are an affront to the ideals of scouting, just as atheism is, then banning gays is perfectly acceptable.

Just don't think you're protecting your kids by doing so. You aren't.

This is absolutely correct, BTW.

Personally, I find it hard to get interested in whatever the Boy Scouts are doing or not doing.

I was a scout in the 60s, and even then it wasn't anything like the organization that Baden-Powell envisioned.

I didn't understand that at age 11, of course. It was only later, when I read Baden-Powell - instead of reading about Baden-Powell.

But don't take my word for it. Read Baden-Powell.

Any of his books in particular that you would recommend as a starting point? I looked on Wikipedia and it looks like he published quite a number of books.

Thanks!

Exactly. I can say that the Boy Scouts, Order of the Arrow and my time at camp have made me into the adult that I have become. I will have my son (if I'm lucky enough to have one) in the organization. However, I will be a leader as well.

Just because someone is gay don't mean they want to sleep with your sons. Just the same as heterosexual male KINDERGARTEN teachers don't want to sleep with the little girls in their class (unless they are a pedophile).

Pedophiles are not always labled as "gay" or "lesbian". They are just what they are; sick pedophiles.

burner:

I have a couple of his early books at home. One of them, I think, is "The Downfall of Prempeh."

It's an account of the Ashanti campaign of 1895, and IIRC, it's in that book that he expresses his developing thoughts about what a "boy scout" organization might look like, and why he thought it would be useful to society.

I'll look through it tonight and report back.

all they gotta do is remember Jerry Sandusky.

Thanks, would be interested in looking at some of them. I was never a scout but I read his life story on Wikipedia after reading your post, sounds like a very interesting guy.

Yep, that. It would be nice to have one longstanding organization that children can participate in without having to accept homsexuality as not only socially acceptable/normal but admirable (which people in positions of leadership by default are to kids).

just open the door and let the Weasel in - all the baby chicks are safe with him watching the door!


like the child molestor buying the house at the corner where the school crosswalk is located.

If this happens my kid is done.

Yep, you are correct Doc.

As an example a former Sgt. then Bailiff here was just busted by the feds for kiddy porn on his computers. Knew the guy for years and never had a clue. He was a fixture at the local gun show at the fair grounds for years trading buying & selling. He also did DJ work at local events and campgrounds.

He got caught in one of the "honey trap" sites that tracked back to his IP and of course him.

The left is using the Boy Scouts just like the schools. Get them young and indoctrinate them. You're losing the battle for young minds again. Think about it.

I was a scout and have been an adult leader for many years, and my son is an Eagle Scout, hell the BSA is even included in my will, but if this goes through that will all change. There are other places that I can spend my time and resources. My daughter was in girl scouts and a camp counselor, but stays away from that organization because of recent policies, include having to teach planned parenthood propaganda. There are now alternatives to the girl scouts and I would assume the same will happen with the boys.

If 10% of the world's population is gay (commonly accepted number from polls), then there is a one in tel change that Sir Robert Baden-Powell was gay. Just something to think about.

BSA will not cave on this issue. Their largest single affiliate is the LDS Church.

DocRocket is right about the danger.

There is a big difference between being romantically attracted to the same sex and engaging in homosexual activities.

Absolutely agree. I'd sure hate to see the BSA try to redefine the meaning of "morally straight" as stated in the Scout Oath:

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

There...fixed it...

http://www.freewebs.com/theborngayhoax/theapa.htm

The decision to remove homosexuality from the DSM in 1974 was largely the result of the APA's meeting being stormed by the homosexual activists .... It was much more a political decision vs a scientific evidence Call.

I can make no claim to knowledge that these is no genitic predisposition to homosexual behavior but having worked in 2 College counseling centers I can Guarantee you that there is a very political indroctrination long in place to promote the " It's cool to be gay and if you even remotely question that you are an intolarant fool who will be punished...." method of "social justice.....".

IMO there is much similarity between how the homosexuals build power and how Islam does...... Start out small and seeming benign then as the power base increases become much more domineering .

For the posters who wrote that 10% of the population in homosexual I challenge you to provide your source.... And much more importantly who FUNDED the
research.....

For the generally much respected posters who wrote that homosexuals are no more likely to exploit children than heterosexuals are, I ask the same question....

It sadens me to see the BSA consider this path.....

....keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

I don't think they envisioned "straight" being translated as it applies to homosexuality but its pretty much intended that way in the broader picture.


However I don't believe a homosexual is any more likely to victimize a scout as a heterosexual would - unless they are Catholic priests or Penn St football coaches.

Couple of points on that:

1. A study that claims that homosexuals ARE NOT more likely to molest kids:

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

2. A Study that claims the opposite

http://www.familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/pro-gay-bias-in-study-of-pedophilia/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1331584/posts
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=is02e3

That study claims 3% of the population as homosexual.

3. MRI study that shows brain differences in images viewed by homosexuals and pedophiles:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2186373/

4. Related research

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,002.htm

Therein lies the problem.

You might have felt a lot safer letting your son hang out with Jerry Sandusky because he was "married, had kids, a family man, etc," than letting them hang out with a homosexual person.

Which would have been wrong?

Regardless of whether fears of homosexual pedophiles are warranted, who wants a homosexual in a leadership role with their boys? There are conflicting nonverbal queues and mannerisms kids pick up on. Most of them are liberal-progressives too who may push the propoganda when opportunity permits. Ideally, you want a masculine, confident and capable man with good morals setting the example for young boys - the kind of man you'd like your boy to become.

Not directed at anyone in particular, but I think somebody is letting their 'studies' disengage there brain. Homos are hyper-promiscuous by comparison to straights and to the point of being an overriding factor in behavior, life-style etc. The BSA as I understand it promotes a wide variety of virtuous ideals many of which are likely at odds with the alternative lifestyles, of which there seem to be many forms.

I agree, however, when we are crafting arguments to use against the other side, we have to be aware of the validity of those arguments. I'm throwing this in here to show you that the old "but all gays are child molestors" argument can be disproved quite easily, so it's probably not the best argument to use in this case.

Absolutely correct. I would therefore say if I were the BSA that our core values are different from those accepted by the homosexual community and as such we choose not to have homosexual scout leaders.

Hard enough to find good role models for young men. Why would you want your son to have a homo as a role model. Definately not the same Boy Scouts i used to belong to.

Jerry may have been married but I'm sorry you do a real poor job of painting him as a heterosexual.

Nobody thought he wasn't until all this stuff blew up.

I'm not defending gays or pedophiles, here. Just pointing out that someone who most people would think of as a great role model for their kids was actually not, and was harmful on top of it.

Just like the hundreds or thousands of a-holes trying to pry their way into the BSA would be. The other thing is the boys in the Scouts are much younger and much more susceptible to this crap. Anyone one trying to sell the heterosexuals abusing boys BS must think we're to dumb to be breathing air on earth.

Burner, thank you for the links..... Goes along with my position of not having the ultimate "right" answer but knowing that statements like homosexuals no more likely to exploit others or the often parroted one about 10% of the Worlds population are homosexuals are the result of PC indoctrination not honest research methods.

He was and IS a pedophile...

Not all boy scouts are 7. What about the troubled 15 or 16 year old "kid"?

If you're boinking a 7 year old you're a pedophile. If you're boinking a 16 year old you're a predator, or possibly just have little self control.

I guarantee a homosexual is more likely to boink a 16 year old boy than a heterosexual.

No problem. I am pretty sure the 1-3% term is much more accurate than the 10% estimate of homosexuals, but to be honest, that 1-3% certainly get enough airtime to make you FEEL like it's 10% of the population.

My gut feeling is that the studies that pedophilia is a brain disorder are right. Think about it this way -- if you as a normal heterosexual male saw ANY naked child, would you be aroused? NO. So, people that are aroused by naked children are obviously organically different than you and I, and therefore, it's something quantifiable that could be tested for and possibly even medicated or surgically corrected.

As a parent, I hate pedophiles like I hate cancer. But I also hate rhetoric and faulty logic.

Thanks for being interested in having a reasonable discussion and being open to factual research on a highly-charged topic.

I'm a straight male. I work at a college. Doesn't mean I am likely to try and sleep with my students.

Not all straight men want to screw every female, young or old.

Not all gay men want to screw every male, young or old.



Why not tell ALL straight women that they can't be Boy Scout Leaders. If that is the argument, then that is perfectly acceptable; right?

Look at all of the female teachers lately doing their male students in that age group. Again, I'm not defending homosexuals -- but wounded people with mental/sexual issues are going to do things regardless of our beliefs of what they will or won't do. People who seek positions of leadership around kids, period, are often interested in more than just community service. It has made it almost impossible for honestly good people to find work around kids, which thus perpetuates the cycle - organizations thankfully take whoever they can get, because not many people want the hassle, which is often someone who is there for the wrong reasons.

Criminals are criminal.

The articles from the UC Davis blog and the Family Research Institute you've quoted are review articles rather than primary research articles, which means there's a lot more opinion in them than there is basic fact. But they both show pretty well that while there is controversy, nobody's research has provent that homosexual adult males are more likely to molest boys than heterosexual adult males.

The key point to focus on is this, gentlemen and ladies: if you want to protect your kid(s) from pedophiles, you have to be involved in their lives and activities. You need to meet their coaches and other adult mentors, look them in the eye, and make sure your spidey-sense isn't tingling... if it is, you need to be really vigilant. Teach your kids what to watch out for so they're less likely to become prey to a pedophile.

You can't legislate your kids safe, either in society, or in the BSA.

New Boy Scout Badges:

Doily-making

Skipping

Fashion Sense

How to set a Tea Party

Knitting

Handless bananna peeling

Say the scout pledge with mouth full three times

Hot Dog Hiding

Walk an Efiminate male across the street

Knit your own tighty-whitey undies

That's the standard gay talking point, but the truth is that only gays are a sexual threat to boys. It's like letting an adult heterosexual men lead a group of girl scouts.

The other thing is that the boy scouts includes teenage boys not just young children and gay men are definitely attracted to teenage boys. How do I know, well here's a photo of a well known professional gay who's made a living by being attractive to gay men. Seems the teenage boy look turns on a lot of gay men.

Doc,

Sorry about that. I didn't have access to the articles I was thinking of right off the top of my head, so I pulled some links that were familiar, but were not the specific ones I was remembering.

You are absolutely right in your statement - The best antidote to predators in any case is an involved parent.

Too many people look on sports, BSA, etc., as free babysitting. Send the kids off and see you in an hour, or a couple days, or whatever. Involvement is key.

As posted by someone: "....our core values are different from those accepted by the homosexual community and as such we choose not to have homosexual scout leaders."

They will "study", but it is NOT going to happen.

I hope it doesn't! I respect the BSA for standing up to the homosexual agenda as long as they have. They are one of the few agencies in the USA that has.

Right on as soon as you read heterosexual molesting youth of their own sex the PC BS is past the top of your waders. It's pretty hard to believe that anyone with a mind would buy into this gay agenda driven [bleep].

Stand strong and firm, boy scouts of America! This cannot be allowed to happen.

Are you saying that adult heterosexual men should not be involved in girl scouts? How about coaching girls sports teams? How about adult heterosexual men teaching adolescent girls in school? Are THEY all sexual threats to girls?

Come on. Adults of the opposite sex have been teaching and mentoring kids of all ages since time immemorial, and the vast majority of them have not been sexually predacious on those kids.

Like I said before, if you want to ban gay scout leaders because it's a moral affront to the BSA, that's justifiable. But if you want to ban them to "protect the children" you're talking through your hat.

So if I wanted to take a bunch of 16 year old girls camping for the weekend that wouldn't raise any eyebrows? Yeah, sure.

No, I did not want my kids exposed to homosexual persons o f ANY stripe any more than I wanted them to have a strip club, whore house or crack house next to their school. There is right, there is wrong, there is such a thing as sin and reproachable, reprehensable and just plain wrong behaviour and children as well as teens should not be exposed to it any more than can be helped. A BSA leader should be, as much as can be possible with us mere mortal and sinsick men, an example of good and moreal behaviour. Becase we live in a fallen and sinful world there will be lapses and failures but to INVITE morally reprehensable and sinful behaviour into a troop and allow such a person to be a leader and held up as an example to follow? Nope, it is NOT right to do such a thing any more than it would be to allow a know whore or crack dealer to be the BSA leader. Being 'GAY' is a choice, and a wrong, sinful one period.

And before the "H" card is played, like the liberal weenies use the Race card, neither God nor I or any other true Christian
"Hate" any homosexual person or persons.

To the contrary, I long for opportunites to demonstrate Christs love to them and have done so including hosting known HIV positive men into my home for dinner, fellowship, and even a Godly embrace of love and acceptance at the end of an evening. Would do so again in heartbeat if given the opportunity.

I long, ever so deeply, to share with the homosexual community about the HEALING from their past, and the forgiveness, and POWER OVER thier addictions and sin that God is offering to them! It is real, it is true , it is powerful it is REAL love like they so seek and long for and it can be thiers. NO, I do not hate them, I love them with the love of Christ through me. The same way I love the drug addicts, and prostitutes, and drunkards, and murderers, and other sinners. Although I might have a little more understanding of and love for the gay them community having a gay and HIV positive Brother in Law living in my home for quite a few years and having many of his freinds and such over to our home, thus giving me more opportunity to understand along with MUCH reading and research into the issue(s) at hand.

Depends on what you mean by being involved in girl scouts. If you mean men taking teenage girls camping in a remote area, then no, they shouldn't be involved. And of course not ALL men are a problem even if they are attracted to teenage girls, but some percentage would be a threat and no one wants to take that chance.



And since time immemorial there has been hanky panky between adults and adolescents, but it was much easier for adults in authority to get away with such behavior in the past. Are you suggesting we go back to that time?



If you're saying many gay men are not attracted to teenage boys then you don't know what you are talking about or you're blowing smoke. Gays aren't fooling anyone with their distractions about not being attracted to young children and how bad heterosexual men are, the issue is gays getting access to adolescent boys.

Yep you don't give criminals access to money for the same reasons. Anyone saying anything else has swallowed the BS or is part of the problem.

The BSA will eventually cave in to the homosexual issue just as they have caved in to the female Scout Masters.

I say this all the time to anyone who will listen;

"We (adult male leaders) are not here to teach our boys how to go camping. We are here to teach them how to be good men."

How are female Scout masters going to do that?

Straight, male role models are increasingly being removed from the lives of our children.

I know that homosexuals are not necessarily pedophiles but I do not want my boys to have homosexual role models, [bleep] men or butchy women.

Yes, the BSA has been moving away from traditional values. It has also become overly inclusive and lowered the standards on many of it's advancement requirements.

This past winter I had to sign off on the fire building requirement for several young Scouts.

I'd bet most of you remember passing your fire starting test when you were a boy scout. If you were like me you had to build your cooking fire and light it using only one match. Remember?

Not any more.

My oldest sons Scout book list the fire building requirement for second class Scouts as "prepare tender, kindling, and fuel for a cooking fire. Light the cooking fire."

My youngest sons book reads; "demonstrate how to light a fire and a lightweight stove".

The current requirement reads "demonstrate how to build a cooking fire. It is not necessary to actually light the fire to fulfill this requirement."

Can you believe that? They removed the opportunity for the boys to fail, learn from their mistakes, try again, and succeed. Yes I had to sign off that those boys can build a fire. Can they? Who knows? And the worst thing is, those boys don't know if they can really make a fire if their life depended on it.

That's only one example. I could write a book full of others.

As a matter of fact, I think I will...

Great post prairedogshooter.

I am an Eagle Scout and am rabidly opposed to homosexual leaders or Scouts. This is in no small part due to a merit badge counselor that was in our district (no, he did not make any advances towards me). He left our area and went to work at another camp. He killed 2 boys (speculation was that he did it to cover up molestation) and dumped them in the camp's grease pit. Bastard got the death penalty, was given a new trial, and got life the 2nd time. Name is James Ross if you want to read the story.

I had girls, not boys, so Boy Scouts wasn't an issue for me, and I don't know much about it.

But suppose I were a homosexual pedophile, and I thought the Boy Scouts might be a good source of victims.

Two scenarios.

First scenario: the Boy Scouts don't allow homosexual troop leaders. I apply to be a troop leader, sign all the paperwork that states I'm not a homosexual pedophile, and proceed to victimize Boy Scouts.

Second scenario: the Boy Scouts allow homosexual troop leaders, but (of course) ban pedophiles. I apply to be a troop leader, sign all the paperwork that states I'm not a homosexual pedophile, and proceed to victimize Boy Scouts.

Mmm--I don't see much of a difference there. Do you? My take would be that finding ways to prevent homosexual pedophiles from becoming troop leaders should be much more important than fiddling with the bylaws.

I agree they shouldn't fiddle with bylaws.

They should say, "Hey, this is a stupid idea. Let's not do it.". Then move on. It'd take me about two minutes to get past this whole issue.

thank god this isnt about california


dont think i could stand another one of those threads

Like it or not, the LDS church is the largest supporter of Boy Scouts. Gays get in, the church will get out, and I doubt the scouting program could survive. The majority of the rest of the scouters are no more likely to stay, leaving such a small block of "enlightened" people to carry on with their distorted concept of what is acceptable...result, Boy Scouts RIP...

The BSA does operate by "The Golden Rule". Those who donate the gold, make the rules

Better for BSA to RIP than become a recruiting pool and dating service for gays.

Having been a rifle instructor for many, many years...
and seeing my own son through his Scout years..
I say :
I would rather see the BSA fold than fold to this issue.

I know several gays. Co-workers and others.
But there is no way I want them to "lead" our youth.

There is a place for all.
Just not together.

I'm not interested in perpetuating a non-argument... but I am unable to find any logical connection whatsoever between my statement and your reply.

I have stated TWICE now that, except to homophobes, who by definition are not capable of rational thought or reasoning about anything to do with homosexuality, the sexual orientation of a scoutmaster is NOT THE PROBLEM.

GIVING PEDOPHILES ACCESS to kids IS the problem.

As long as you're obsessed with the sexuality of scoutmasters, you are wasting energy and resources that could and should be directed toward finding out who the pedophiles are and getting them the hell out of the BSA, the schools, and kids' sports.

Doc, there's no argument here. No one can perpetuate this logically because it's all fluff now. Notice how everyone got quiet when I mentioned that none of them would have thought twice about letting their kid attend a Sandusky football camp years ago? Exactly. It's a scary problem, pedophilia, and the way to deal with it is not to run around with pitchforks.

It's obvious there's more heat than light being generated here so I'm bowing out before they start labelling us as gay rights activists or worse.

You are wise beyond your years, Grasshoppah.

I will now follow your excellent example and exit this thread my ownself.

There is a lot of misinformation posted here.I assume that a persons own perceptions of homosexuality play a big part in the information they will accept as fact.Here is some of the information I've discovered in my research of this phenomenon known as homosexuality.

Dr.Gene Abel,a sex researcher,compared the molestation rates of self-confessed homosexual and heterosexual child molesters.In a sample of 153 homosexual molesters,they confessed to a total of 22,981 molestations. This is equivalent to 150 children per molester.

Over two hundred self-admitted heterosexual molesters admitted to 4,435 molestations. This comes to 19.8 victims per molester. Dr.Abel concluded that homosexuals sexually molest young boys at a rate that is five times greater than the molestation of girls.


Here are more studies and surveys that also illustrate that homosexuals molest at a rate that is up to 500% higher than heterosexuals.

The Los Angeles Times conducted a survey in 1985 of 2,628 adults across the U.S.Of those,27% of the women and 16% of the men had been sexually molested.Seven percent of the girls and ninety-three percent of the men had been molested by adults of the same sex. This means that 40% of child molestations were committed by homosexuals. (August 25-6, 1985)

In 1984, a Vermont survey of 161 adolescents who were sex offenders found that 35 of them were homosexuals,that equals 22%. (Wasserman, J., Adolescent Sex Offenders�Vermont, 1984 Journal American Medical Association, 1986)

In 1991, of the 100 child molesters at the Massachusetts Treatment Center for Sexually Dangerous Persons,a third were heterosexual,a third were bisexual,and a third were homosexual.Dr. Raymond Knight, Differential Prevalence of Personality Disorders in Rapists and Child Molesters, Eastern Psychological Association Conference, New York, April 12, 1991.It's clear in this study that homosexuals and bi-sexual represent the majority of molesters.

Drs. Freund and Heasman of the Clark Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two studies on child molesters and calculated that 34% and 32% of the sex offenders were homosexual. In cases these doctors had handled, 36% of the molesters were homosexuals. Freund, K. "Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 1984 10:193-200)


Homosexuals make up approximately 3% of the population.It's quite clear,to those who are not attempting to promote homosexuality by posting false data,that homosexuals pose a grave threat to our children.

This new America is truly something.
Here, on a site filled largely with presumably socially conservative males, we have people actually attempting to debate whether a male, who openly professes to be sexually attracted to other males, is more of a threat in a leadership position to teenage males, either physically, emotionally, morally, (or yes spiritually for those so inclined), than a male who does not profess attraction to males?!? Dear God help us.

Yesterday I was leaving a business meeting after work and sitting in traffic on a downtown street that I've never been going slow enough on to really notice any of the businesses. Traffic was at a dead stop and I looked at my phone to see an email from this thread pop up. Interesting timing as seconds later I see this 'guy' trotting (only way to describe it) up the near side sidewalk. I immediately saw the guy and thought "gay". Then even I checked myself and thought "Am I being unfair and judgemental just because of the way the guy dresses and his physical mannerisms." That thought didn't last long as he immediately went into a business. I looked up at the sign with the rainbow logo and saw the establishment was called "The Gayborhood" Under it was the tag line "Yellow pages for the gay community" or some such. My very next thought was one short generation ago such a thing would not only have never existed but just the concept would have been laughed off as bad science fiction. Yet many if not most and surely many here would defend the existing of such an establishment and the outward expression ('pride') of unnatural sexual proclivities as actually 'progress'. Now we are debating whether homosexual men should be held up as leaders amongst the young men in the Boy Scouts? What "progress" this country has made and continues to make...

I think a considerable number of our population have drank the Kool-Aid of the homosexuals and their promoters.They have accepted the pop culture's image of homosexuality.Their public image stands in stark contrast the reality of this type of sexual deviancy.

Homosexuals suffer a much higher rate of alcoholism,drug abuse and depression compared to heterosexuals.They also commit a substantially higher rate of verbal and physical abuse in their relationships.

People who attempt to equate homosexual relations to that of heterosexual relations fail miserably to make their case.

Scouts mandate training called Child Protection.

As part of the training you are taught as a scoutmaster or scout leader that under no circumstances are you to ever be alone with a scout or allow any adult to be alone with a scout - not even a situation where you are waiting around for parents to pick up a scout and it you are there with the last scout at the end of the meeting. We are so serious about this that we don't even allow a parent to share a tent with their child during a campout.

I can't speak for any troop other than mine but we are VERY serious about enforcing this rule. No parent or any adult can attend a camp out without completing this training.

When we do go camping , no adult is allowed in a tent. As an adult, I can't even look in a scouts tent unless its a medical emergency.

All scouts must use the buddy system when going to a bathroom (or anywhere for that matter) away from camp or even a troop meeting.

We also have mandated ratios where there are adults /kids on meetings and campouts.

Also, as part of earning the scout badge, parents must discuss the child protection training with their child and sign their name to a booklet that is provided in the scout handbook.

Finally, to earn Tenderfoot, (the second rank that most scouts earn within 3 months of joining) they must have a discussion about child predators and inappropriate behavior.

Finally, as a scoutmaster I have to complete 3 different scout training activities before I earn the "trained" badge I wear. All 3 address appropriate and allowed behavior with scouts. Every 2 years ( I think) I have to retake that training.

All I can say is if your child is in my troop or any troop that adheres to the guidelines set forth by Scouting, there is virtually no chance of abuse.

I also believe that it would be difficult - not impossible but difficult for a homosexual to promote a gay agenda. Tolerance? absolutely but a pro homosexual agenda?
If it did happen, it would be the fault of the parents as much as the scout leadership.

I stated this before, but regardless of whether one is convinced homosexuals are pedophiles or not, they should NOT be scoutmasters because they are NOT good ROLE MODELs.

A Scoutmaster should approach the ideal in a male role model, and a homosexual does not measure up. A scoutmaster should be the kind of man you'd like your son to grow up to be. And while they don't take the place of the real father in a normal family, you better darn well believe they do to a degree for those boy scouts growing up in families with a male deficit.

I have been involved in scouts for around 18 years, am an Eagle scout and have continued involvement since as a leader. Due to our current employment situation, my wife and I will be spending part of this summer working at a scout camp in central Oregon. As part of getting prepared for getting the training we need to work at camp we both had to go through the BSA Youth protection training, which has several key points that include: no 1 on 1 contact, two deep leadership, separate accommodations for youth and adults, as well as female youth and adults for those involved in Venturing BSA which is a co-ed program for those who are 14-20 years old. With Venturing, if there are female scouts going on an outing, there MUST also be a female leader along on the activity.

The BSA has done a fairly good job at trying to protect our youth from predators, as well as protect the adult leaders from false accusations through their youth protection training.

this link is an info page put out by the scouts
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx

I will also say that I doubt that the BSA will fold to this pressure, if for no other reason, simply because, they realize that if they do fold, there will be many people who will either leave the organization, or stop supporting it. I will also say that I will be one of those.

As a former Eagle Scout and a currently a big supporter of the BSA with my time and donations I ac say my support will no longer be there if they institute this policy.


Growing up with the BSA I saw a lot of troubled youth, from broken and f upped familiers get their lives back in order and succed through the BSA program. In the BSA there was a Clear sense of structure, morality, patritism, civic duty, sacrifice, donating time for projects for nature, ederly citizens, handicapped, disable veterans.


This is clearly a move by radical homosexuals to radically change the BSA.

You can state false information as much as you want, but it's not going to make it true. Fact is some gay men are attracted to adolescent boys. You can deny it until you are blue in the face, but all anyone has to do is check out what some professional gay prostitutes look like to see at least some gay men are turned on by the teenage boy look. Here's one infamous example.



If anyone who's attracted to an adolescent boy is a pedophile than a large part of the gay community are pedophiles.



Standard distraction tactic. Everyone look over there while we do our thing here. Cops hear this all the time when they stop someone for a traffic violation. The violator is incensed that the cops are wasting time on them when there are drug dealers and real criminals running lose.

The BSA should avoid the issue by keeping gays out. The gay community's vendetta against the BSA has already done damage that can never be undone, and caving in to gays now will deeply offend those who have stood with the BSA over this issue for years.

Not necessarily. Levi Strauss cut them off for their stance on homo leaders. They turned down the gold to maintain their standards.

This thread has convinced me of how retarded BSA is, along with people here who I thought were sane.

A parent can't camp with their own kid, who can't take a leak by himself....but they'll consider letting homosexuals lead the organization.

Wow.

I am an Assistant Scout Master for my troop and a patrol advisor
for 10 boy scouts. I just had one of my boys come out of the closet which is creating a new set of problems for me dealing with the other parents.

Greg

You see it clearly. This thread alone proves why and how the demise is certain. You would expect a consensus of opinion from a group of conservative men. But we have become so tolerant that we will accept any perversion and corruption. That will prove our demise.

Let us remove the pedophile issue for a moment.

Most of the interactions between an adult and a non-family member teenager in public arenas such as the Boy Scouts or teaching is of a non-verbal nature. Hard to describe, but how the situation "feels".

I am a heterosexual male (thank God), there are reasons why I cannot take a group of teemage girls out camping in a remote area. NOT making any moves on teenage girls is a test I have passed countless times over the last thirty years. But the fact that should even be an issue is exactly why I would avoid putting myself in that situation.

It aint usually purposeful pedophilia either. Some girls fifteen and up can seem remarkably mature (recall that women commonly used to marry from that age on) and they are becoming adults. When you work with teenagers you can become emotionally close, if it is a young woman the fact that you are of opposite genders inevitably comes to mind.

These situations are as predictable as the sunrise, inevitable given normal human nature. EXACTLY why most such organizations are structured to head these situations off at the pass.

OK, take a young guy 13-17 years old, perhaps from a one-parent family, no male father figures at home. Lets say this individual becomes attached to an inspiring and giving scout leader during these formative years. If this scout leader were openly homosexual, the fact that this older man is sexually attracted to, and has sex with, other men would inevitably cloud the relationship.

I was in the Boy Scouts, enjoyed the heck out of it, the LAST thing I would have needed at that age was an openly homosexual scout master.

Birdwatcher

Well put

That's what gets me about this crap. When do you really need an openly gay anything? You don't. They think you need it and will shove it in your face at every turn. Entertainment, media, education, the military, the society and even to many institutions that are antithetical to homosexuality. The libs do the same with all kids of issues. Contraception/Catholicism being one. Pretty soon 99% of the comments in this thread will be against the law.

Well I was a Cub Scout, my mom was a Den Mother, then I was a Boy Scout till I when off to School. The BSA is standing there ground on this issue, they are not the only ones that bar Atheists from the Organization. I am a Member of an Organization that bars Atheists from membership. Nothing new its a private organization and we get to make our own rules, same with the BSA, they are private. The Homo's are pushing an agenda, they are a very loud politically connected and well financed group. What ever they say there numbers are, its more like half or a quarter of that figure. While I would not go and hang them like they do in Iran, from cranes. On the other hand there should be no special rights extended to them just because.

setting aside the homosexual stand, no one has said a parent can't camp with their kid. Provided they take the appropriate youth protection training, (again, at least within our troop - other troops may relax that rule) parents are welcome to camp. We aren't protecting your child from you, we are protecting the 64 other boys in our troop from you or any other adult regardless of sexual preference, politics, religion., etc - by making sure you/they understand the guidelines of adult/scout interaction.

At first I didn't understand those rules either , but once you are put in a situation where you have 30 boys camping on a trip , you do.

My personal take is, if someone is so intent on working with boys (and has good intentions) then your sexual orientation should never come up for discussion. If you make your sexual orientation an issue, your focus isn't about helping boys to begin with.

In a perfect world, I should be able to camp with any scout leader and never know he was gay, catholic, protestant , liberal or conservative. We are there as leaders to teach the principles of scouting to the boys, not our own.

Openly gay Scout leaders difficult to promote their agenda?
Are you joking?

You don't think the ACLU, EEOC, Gay Pride groups, DOJ! Hollywood homos won't be all over this once they are established in the BSA?

Once in place any critism of an openly gay Scout Leader will br labled a hate crime and the lawsuits will start. Openly gay Scout leders will be members of a "protected group" and will be untouchable and will be free to promote any agenda they want. The good scouts will quit and BSA as we know will be destroyed.

You can bet there will be diversity, LGBT manadtory merit badges in order to promote to Eagle Scout.

History has proven this time and time again.

I don't believe that. Parents of children won't sit on the sidelines when it comes to who influences them. There is only room for one agenda in Boy Scouts and that is making young men into leaders.

What part of "morally straight" and "duty to God" meshes with homosexuality?

You got that right. Tnhey'll prolly just figure out a new definition of "morally straight".

Point is parents wont have a choice and will be forced to pull their boys out of scouts.

This is not about potential pedophiles, inclusion of gays in the BSA; this is a move to kill off the BSA by the left wing groups in the US.


Look at the same sex marriage ceremonies happening now on military bases.How does this affect our combat readiness, morale?

I can see the new scout pledge: I promise to swallow at all times, always wear sunscreen in my foundation when i go outside, always bring a fresh towel to the bath house and never wear plaids and stripes together...

These attacks will of course continue.

And if and when the BSA ever caves or is forced to cave, OF COURSE openly gay homosexual couples will make a point of forming scout troops to push the issue.

Or maybe not, I do believe the BSA would simply close themselves down and terminate the organization.

Birdwatcher

Contrary to what people think, there are a lot of folks who are gay who are involved in Scouting...I know of many here locally...

the big difference however, is they do not openly advertise it or act like it is a badge of honor...nor spend a lot of time calling attention to themselves over it...

I doubt if locally is any different than elsewhere nationwide...

So there is a lot of 'look the other way' attitudes.... most of the ones I know, serve in peripheral support roles, honoring the desires of BSA that it not be made open or public...

but of course radical liberals and the gay proud crowd act all offended when being gay and lesbian isn't glorified, or promoted as a legitimate acceptable life style in our society.....

and face it, well funded liberals are going to keep hammering at BSA, until they fold or they make BSA adapt to their radical ideas...

lets remember that the Gay/Lesbian crowds got the City of Philadelphia to out the age old lease on the Local Council HQ from $1 a year, to charging several million a year, the commercial value of the property...

Gay and Lesbian Radicals still would not back down when the Philly Council pointed out that would destroy their budget where they allowed 20 thousand plus underprivileged kids to go to summer camp for free...

The press sure covered that battle with favorable support for the Gay/Lesbian crowd...however when public press forced the city to return the $1 a year lease price to the BSA Council, so that all of these underprivileged interurban to go to camp...

However, the liberal media unceremoniously declined to cover the reversal of that decision at all, much less with the same enthusiasm...